letter from HFO regarding a debt

[HF whO?]

I recently received a letter from HFO regarding a debt that I had outsatnding with Sainsbury's bank.

 

Letter was dated 16th April 2010.

 

I have since received calls advising me how I should be claiming benefits (Up to 500 a month apparently?) so that some of this can go towards my outsanding balance.

 

I asked for a copy of the Credit Agreement and the comment was this can be arranged ny myself going to HBOS and asking for it?!?

 

I've basically told them that half of nothing still equalls nothing, I have no personal items and if they wish to take it to court then that is fine by me because I also owe other creditors and am not in a position to be able to make a commitment with just one creditor.

 

I also know that there has been a name error made on my account which has even been recorded on experian as "Also may be known as".

 

This agreement started in 2003!

 

I wasn't convinced by their tactics which made me google HFO and had brought me here.

 

Regards

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome, HF whO?.

 

I'll use your post to start a new thread for you.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[cerberusalert]

If HFO are demanding money from you then it is their responsibility to provide a copy of the agreement so send them a CCA request to see if they are entitled to collect this debt & if it's enforcable. If they fail to provide it within 12 working days from receipt, or the CCA is unenforcable you can legally withold any payment until they do. Send it recorded delivery enclosing a £1 postal order. When you get a reply, scan it & remove any identifying details and post it back here where we can have a look at it. We'll advise you from there;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:- Account No: XXXXXXXX/Your Reference Number: XXXXXXX

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR). I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

Furthermore, with regards to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

You are reminded of the following under Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

 

Trading Standards can bring about a prosecution if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under contract, he or she:

 

(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which by their frequency, or the manner or occasion of their making, or any accompanying threat or publicity are calculated to subject him or his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;

(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;

© falsely represent themselves to be authorized in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment;

(d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not.

 

I am of the view that your harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Further to this if it is your intention to arrange a call from your 'Doorstep Collectors', I note that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

Take note, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or any of your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless. Any trespassers you attempt to send therefore will be dealt with accordingly.Be further advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

(Print in red optional addition)

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully **Edit to suit**

 

(Print do not sign signature)

[HF whO?]

Thank You Scott.

 

If HFO are demanding money from you then it is their responsibility to provide a copy of the agreement so send them a CCA request to see if they are entitled to collect this debt & if it's enforcable. If they fail to provide it within 12 working days from receipt, or the CCA is unenforcable you can legally withold any payment until they do. Send it recorded delivery enclosing a £1 postal order. When you get a reply, scan it & remove any identifying details and post it back here where we can have a look at it. We'll advise you from there;

 

Thank You for your help, I am definitely going to do as you advise.

 

I don't think that this company have the proper authorisation to chase this because I have been approached by numerous other debt collection agencies in the past regarding a lot smaller amounts.

 

I also think that perhaps the name error may have something to do with it?

 

Going back last year I approached Sainsbury's bank and they told me the debt had been passed on, contacted the agency and they told me it had been passed on AGAIN. Contacted them and... No knowledge whatsoever. I went back and forth a couple of times and then decided to write a letter to both companies asking them to confirm that they had no interset in the debt.

 

One company was kind enough to write back and I heard nothing from the other.

 

I believe this debt is not enforceable and HFO are trying it on.

 

I look forward to doing exactly as you have recommended and report back with any details that I receive regarding the matter.

 

Thank You for your assistance, I could've really used this site going back when my previous relationship went belly up and I was being chased for money.

 

Regards

 

HF whO?

[cashins]

I have since received calls advising me how I should be claiming benefits (Up to 500 a month apparently?) so that some of this can go towards my outsanding balance.

 

Oh really! Even if there was a court judgement against you the chances of a judge allowing that shower to tuck into your benefits is about zero.

 

David

[HF whO?]

Oh really! Even if there was a court judgement against you the chances of a judge allowing that shower to tuck into your benefits is about zero.

 

David

 

 

I laughed and said that almost beats going to work:lol:

 

They can get in the que as far as I am concerned but I did inform them that I would be seeking legal advice which lead to a change in tone and informing me that that would lead them with no alternative but to pass the case on to their legal team.

 

 

I'm really appreciative of this forum as the information that I have read on here is extremely useful and I look forward to posting my progress

[DonkeyB]

Oh dear... subbing... back to this tomorrow!

[HF whO?]

Here is the content in their letter

 

I have attempted to contact you several times recently in connection with the letter that HFO had sent you regarding your account, but we did not manage to have a conversation.

 

We cannot resolve the matter mutually until we speak to you and I am forced to inform you that we will have to communicate through our solicitors and the Court. This will result in a substantial increase in your outstanding balance as interest and additional charges will be added to your account.

 

It's our duty to inform you that your account has now been pre-qualified for litigation. In case our solicitors commence legal action against you and obtain a judgment at Court, you will become liable for payment of the court fees and solicitors costs in addition to the debt outstanding to HFO.

 

This will have following consequences:

 

A) A county court judgment against you will make it very difficult and expensive for you to obtain any credit (including a mortgage) in the future.

 

B) Once HFO obtains judgment against you, we will seek to enforce the judgment in the form of a Warrant of Execution. Court-appointed bailiffs will visit you at ***********************. The Bailiffs will seize your assets which will then be sold at public auction in order to pay your debt.

 

This would be your last chance to avoid escalation of this matter by calling me on ********************* within 7 days of dispatch of this letter, or else this account will be moved from my desk to our slicitors for legal action. I would suggest you seek advice from your own solicitor if you doubt the seriosness of this situation

 

Yours Sincereley

[Delta-Charlie-76]

Is this for HFO Services or HFO Capital?

[HF whO?]

Is this for HFO Services or HFO Capital?

 

 

Sorry Charlie, as per the letter heading it is:

 

HFO services

 

Address:

 

HFO services Limited

PO Box 342

West By Fleet

Surrey

KT14 6YX

[Delta-Charlie-76]

HFO Services...oh lovely!

 

Have you made a complaint to the OFT via Consumer Direct yet? If not I would do so ASAP.

 

This is a very nasty company to deal with, I've had this mis-fortune to have the pleasure of dealing with them for 2 years now, I CCA'd them 18 months ago, they used to phone & send threatening letters, they still haven't complied with my CCA...not even acknowledged it. I haven't had any correspondence from them for nearly a year now.

[HF whO?]

I'm just in the process of reading the VJ V's thread;)

 

I'm currently unemployed so this could become a little project of mine lol

 

 

 

Out of interest, should I be contacting Sainsburys to find out who they sold to and dates etc?

[Delta-Charlie-76]

That is a very good question, I don't think it could hurt by phoning Sainsburys, you just want dates & to to whom, but I'm sure one of the experts will give you a more definate answer.

 

Don't phone HFO, keep everything in writing with them. When HFO kept phoning me last year, they were persistant b*****s who would take 'in writing' and '**** off' for an answer.

[Delta-Charlie-76]

Just had a read of the letter they sent you.

 

'Once HFO obtains judgement'

 

Firstly they have to get a CCJ, secondly you will have to default on your payment to the court first for them to send the bailiffs in. You are a long way from that right now.

 

Send the letter off Cerberusalert suggested, this will give them 12 working days to comply plus 2 for postage. If they fail to comply with that request, you then send them the 'Account in Dispute' letter. If they fail to comply the agreement is unenforcable at law, nothing they can do until they do.

[HF whO?]

Have you made a complaint to the OFT via Consumer Direct yet? If not I would do so ASAP.

 

The only thing I have done so far is register and activate my account on here8)

 

That is one epic thread, I wonder what joy I can expect as my debt of 10'ish thousand pounds is just a touch more than they were chasing VJ for:p

 

Seems I may be spending a little time here looking at that thread;-)

 

I look forwars to making some new friends:cool:

[DonkeyB]

If HFO Capital own this account, you should have received a Notice of Assignment when it was sold. Did you?

 

Further, that letter is misleading and, I would suggest, threatening. You must forward a copy with a complaint to the OFT and trading standards.

 

HFO Services appears to have moved its operations to Roxburghe. Which is odd, as the OFT CCA register states its main business place as India!

 

If this debt was sold to HFO Capital before January 2008, the we have them over a barrell.

 

So, first steps:

 

1. If you do talk to them, record the calls. The crap you had about benefits is bloody outrageous. Better still, everything in writing (unless you want to gather ammo to close them down by recording!).

 

2. 'Prove it' letter, if you have never received a Notice of Assignment.

 

3. If you have an NoA, call Sainsbury's and demand to know EXACTLY to whom and when the account was sold. You may need to send Sainsbury's a SAR with some very specific questions regarding assignment and defaults. Also sent the CCA letter as suggested by Cerbs, above.

 

4. Their bluster about their 'legal team' is a lie. HFO Services is actually run by a firm of solicitors, Turnbull Rutherford - so they are not advised by solicitors - the ARE the solicitors. Again, I believe they are misleading you by stating this.

 

5. When was the account defaulted? Did you receive a default notice from Sainsbury's? This is important; if you don't have one, you need to get a copy via the SAR process.

 

Don't be afraid of these idiots - yes, idiots - they are skating on thin ice with the OFT, trading standards and the SRA - dig out all the historical info you have on this account and post it here.

 

DonkeyB

[sillygirl1]

Roxburghe are part of the same little group, probably all indirectly linked via two particular people (no names mentioned on site)...

 

This needs reporting to Trading Standards who I believe are looking at HFO, also I understand HFO may not have a live licence to operate as a debt collecting business so try the Ministry of Justice as well - they seem to have teeth to close this dreadful lot down.

[HF whO?]

Thank You all for you advice

 

 

 

If HFO Capital own this account, you should have received a Notice of Assignment when it was sold. Did you?

 

The only letters I have received at the address I am currently staying at is the one that I have posted the contents to.

 

HFO Capital??? Now did they just used to be called Capital? I've been chased by them before for a different debt IIRC;)

 

Further, that letter is misleading and, I would suggest, threatening. You must forward a copy with a complaint to the OFT and trading standards.

 

Is this just a case of writing a letter and sending them a copy of the letter that I have received?

 

As for the threats? Half of Nothing still equals NOTHING:(

 

HFO Services appears to have moved its operations to Roxburghe. Which is odd, as the OFT CCA register states its main business place as India!

 

If this debt was sold to HFO Capital before January 2008, the we have them over a barrell.

 

Well I know Sainsburys sold the debt on to someone and they sold it on to another company who have no information on the debt at all and referred me back to the previous company who have confirmed that they no longer have any interest in the account:confused

 

I think I'm going to have to start with Sainsburys and build a timeline of my account history and who exactly has had dealings with it and who OWNS the account now.

 

Is the ERROR on the account of any real significance? The name that I have letters and statements for is not just a single typo error on one statement?

 

 

So, first steps:

 

1. If you do talk to them, record the calls. The crap you had about benefits is bloody outrageous. Better still, everything in writing (unless you want to gather ammo to close them down by recording!).

 

Letter will be my only route, telephone calls can usually end up in being twisted and I don't have anything to record my calls with at the moment

 

 

2. 'Prove it' letter, if you have never received a Notice of Assignment.

 

I have only received the one letter. I have not been at the addresses that they have on record for well over 3 years.

 

3. If you have an NoA, call Sainsbury's and demand to know EXACTLY to whom and when the account was sold. You may need to send Sainsbury's a SAR with some very specific questions regarding assignment and defaults. Also sent the CCA letter as suggested by Cerbs, above.

 

The two companies that I had been given names to by Sainsburys did not IIRC resemble any of the names that I have seen associated with HFO

 

4. Their bluster about their 'legal team' is a lie. HFO Services is actually run by a firm of solicitors, Turnbull Rutherford - so they are not advised by solicitors - the ARE the solicitors. Again, I believe they are misleading you by stating this.

 

The first I heard of this was on this forum which is the reason I registered

 

 

5. When was the account defaulted? Did you receive a default notice from Sainsbury's? This is important; if you don't have one, you need to get a copy via the SAR process

.

 

I'm not entirely sure but it was over 4 years ago

 

Don't be afraid of these idiots - yes, idiots - they are skating on thin ice with the OFT, trading standards and the SRA - dig out all the historical info you have on this account and post it here

.

 

Idiots is a term that I would also use:D

 

 

 

 

DonkeyB

 

Should I engage in talks via email with HFO? or everything in the posted and recoreded letter?

 

 

 

I really appreciate everyones assistance

 

Regards

 

HF whO?

[DonkeyB]

Emails should be OK, but back EVERYTHING up in writing and send recorded. They will wriggle and squirm like all worms do.

 

So, either the Prove It letter or the CCA request - it will give them more hassle if you do the prove it first, then follow up with the CCA, but that's up to you.

 

Definitely a SAR to the OC, but ask specifically who and when - exactly - it was sold to. Also specifically request copies of any default notices and termination letters, as well as a copy of the original signed agreement. Tell them a recreation of the agreement is not satisfactory - that you have been threatened with legal action and only a copy of the original will do. State that if they do not have a copy of the original, they must say so, and must also say if the actual document is no longer in existence.

 

You would say the same to HFO when issuing a CCA request.

[HF whO?]

Emails should be OK, but back EVERYTHING up in writing and send recorded. They will wriggle and squirm like all worms do.

 

So, either the Prove It letter or the CCA request - it will give them more hassle if you do the prove it first, then follow up with the CCA, but that's up to you.

 

Definitely a SAR to the OC, but ask specifically who and when - exactly - it was sold to. Also specifically request copies of any default notices and termination letters, as well as a copy of the original signed agreement. Tell them a recreation of the agreement is not satisfactory - that you have been threatened with legal action and only a copy of the original will do. State that if they do not have a copy of the original, they must say so, and must also say if the actual document is no longer in existence.

 

You would say the same to HFO when issuing a CCA request.

 

I have found letters from Sainsbury's Bank referring to a default notice

 

 

28th October 2006

 

Dear *********

 

Despite previous reminders we note that your account continues to be in arrears and in excess of the agreed credit limit.

 

Unrounless your account is returned to order or suitable proposal for repayment received, a Default Notice under the terms Consumer Credit Act (1974) will be issued.

 

If you are unable to make payment on this account please call the above helpline number.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

****************

Senior Collections Manager

 

 

This was around the time where my previous relationship had ended and lost my job and ended up having to agree to selling the house that I owned with my ex.

 

HFO sounded most disappointed when they were informed that the house was no longer in my ownership:?

[DonkeyB]

But you have no actual Default Notice?

[HF whO?]

But you have no actual Default Notice?

 

I imagine that if one was issued it went to the address that I had vacated:???:

 

I'm just off to pick up some printer paper so that I can get letters written up and ready to send off:cool:

[broken arrow]

Subbing, and welcome to the HFO fan club, HFwhO.

[broken arrow]

It will be helpful if you can post any docs you have received, taking care to hide any personal info.

 

Regards

BA

[HF whO?]

Thanks for joining the thread BA

 

 

 

I have just sent an email to Consumer Direct making them aware of this situation to see what they come back with

 

If HFO Capital own this account, you should have received a Notice of Assignment when it was sold. Did you?

 

Further, that letter is misleading and, I would suggest, threatening. You must forward a copy with a complaint to the OFT and trading standards.

 

HFO Services appears to have moved its operations to Roxburghe. Which is odd, as the OFT CCA register states its main business place as India!

 

If this debt was sold to HFO Capital before January 2008, the we have them over a barrell.

 

So, first steps:

 

1. If you do talk to them, record the calls. The crap you had about benefits is bloody outrageous. Better still, everything in writing (unless you want to gather ammo to close them down by recording!).

 

2. 'Prove it' letter, if you have never received a Notice of Assignment.

 

3. If you have an NoA, call Sainsbury's and demand to know EXACTLY to whom and when the account was sold. You may need to send Sainsbury's a SAR with some very specific questions regarding assignment and defaults. Also sent the CCA letter as suggested by Cerbs, above.

 

4. Their bluster about their 'legal team' is a lie. HFO Services is actually run by a firm of solicitors, Turnbull Rutherford - so they are not advised by solicitors - the ARE the solicitors. Again, I believe they are misleading you by stating this.

 

5. When was the account defaulted? Did you receive a default notice from Sainsbury's? This is important; if you don't have one, you need to get a copy via the SAR process.

 

Don't be afraid of these idiots - yes, idiots - they are skating on thin ice with the OFT, trading standards and the SRA - dig out all the historical info you have on this account and post it here.

 

DonkeyB

 

What is the best option to start with?

 

Proof of "Notice of Assignment" or straight in with the Consumer Credit Agreement letter as advised in an early post?

 

I have the CCA addressed to HFO ready so if that's the favourable route then I shall pick up a Postal Order tomorrow and send it recorded delivery.