Council tax problem for renting privately without contract

[oscar9163]

Sorry for this lenghy post and if anyone can help it would be much appreciated.

 

My mate rent a house privately without any written contract from a landlord from Dec 2007 to Jun 2008.

 

Recently she received a council tax bill from local authority asking her to pay for the period upto April 2009. She called the office to say that she had not been living in that property since Jun 2008 and also she has showed the evidence proving this and made a writen declarition saying that she was not living in that proporty. As I thought this should be enough to waive that bill.

 

But what the council said was she would still have to be liable for paying that council tax unless obtaining a written confirmation from the landlord. This is because that landlord reported to the council that she moved out on April 2009. The landlord is just lying as he doesn't want to pay for that money which should be his liability.

 

The reasons why my mate has to pay for that money according to the authority are:

 

1. Eventhough she is not living in that property, she may still be liable for the council tax even she is living in another property.

2. As she failed to inform the authority within 21 days after moving out and she had no contract with the landlord, the check-out date will sololy depent on what landlord has reported to the authority. ( assuming if the landlord reported she checked out today, she will have to pay the tax up to today) THIS IS UNFAIR!!!! WHO GAVE THE LANDLORD THIS RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER HE WANTS TO!!!

 

 

Well, in order to avoid this bill so far is having to get a confirmation from the landlord, unfortunately my mate can't hold of him. And I thought if he had done this on purpose, why on earth he would provide something against him.

 

By now my mate intend not to pay this and leave it the court to judge, but she worries if the court is in favor against her then the bill will be even more to pay at the end of the day.

 

She is helpless and desperate and can anyone HELP PLEASE!!!

 

MANY MANY MANY BIG THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!!

 

OSCAR

[Conniff]

Ask them where it is laid down that they can only accept a statement from the landlord. If you have other paperwork especially a council tax bill for you new property, I can't see that they can refuse this on a whim.

 

First sentence in the council collection of taxes is 'make as much money as you can even if you have to lie and cheat to do it.

[hightail]

Surely it's up to the landlord to furnish a proper rental agreement to show the property was occupied by your friend.

[oscar9163]

Hi Conniff, thanks for your prompt reply.

 

Well, my mate has already showed the council with the tenancy agreement for the new property which indicated her not living in that property. however, the council would not accept that. They may only accept a confirmation for the landlord. I thought this was really stupid as first I cannot get hold of the landlord and second if the landlord did this on purple to avoid the bill, why he should provide anything to us to against him.LOL!!

 

The only thing is my mate didn't sign a contract with that landlord, can this give him the right to the report to the authority whatever he said? This is not fair!!

[oscar9163]

Surely it's up to the landlord to furnish a proper rental agreement to show the property was occupied by your friend.

 

But the fact was there was no such contract at all and my mate has proved to the council that she was not occuping that property.

[oscar9163]

Oh, forgot to tell one thing.

 

Since my mate cannot get hold to the landlord, and then she asked if council can contact the landlord to solve this problem. The funniest thing is they cannot get hold to the landlord either as they dont have information.

 

On the other hand, the council insist requiring my mate to that stupid confirmation.

[hightail]

But the fact was there was no such contract at all and my mate has proved to the council that she was not occuping that property.

 

Exactly. They may as well come after any of us for their money and expect us to prove we weren't living there. The person responsible for the council tax is the owner of the property unless they can prove there were tenants incumbent. The council can't just chase random people because they can't trace the owner.

[oscar9163]

Exactly. They may as well come after any of us for their money and expect us to prove we weren't living there. The person responsible for the council tax is the owner of the property unless they can prove there were tenants incumbent. The council can't just chase random people because they can't trace the owner.

 

The council told my mate that since she had no contract with the L/L and she failed to informed the council when she moved out, in this case, the L/L can say anything about the moving-out date (even up to today or any time in the furture) and he doesn't even have to prove it with any B&W documents. This is really ridiculous and unfair to my mate.

 

Since I though if the landlord cannot provide anything (contract) to suport that my mate lived there, the council could take some factual evidents from my mate (eg. new contract proving she is leaving somewhere else) to take her name off from the paying list. Unfortunately this is not the case so far!!!!!!!!

 

Does anyone know is this true that if there was no contract and then landlord can do whatever he can? OH DEAR!! if this is true I will be laughing with tears!!!!

[hightail]

Well I'll wait for someone with more knowledge to come along but I'd have thought they have to prove the debt. If your mate can show they have been living elsewhere and paying coucil tax for that address I'd say they have a pretty good case if the council take it to court.

[oscar9163]

Well I'll wait for someone with more knowledge to come along but I'd have thought they have to prove the debt. If your mate can show they have been living elsewhere and paying coucil tax for that address I'd say they have a pretty good case if the council take it to court.

 

 

Yes that was what I thought as well, however the council argued that even my mate was living somewhere else she might still be liable for both properties eventhough she was not living in that property.

[hightail]

The council can argue that but as she has no connection with that property it sounds like a load of twaddle to me. She doesn't own it and she doesn't live there. There isn't even any evidence to suggest she did live there. There may be evidence that she paid the council tax at one time. I paid my brother's for a short time when he was experiencing difficulties, doesn't mean I'm responsible in the future just because I wrote them a couple of cheques.

[oscar9163]

The council can argue that but as she has no connection with that property it sounds like a load of twaddle to me. She doesn't own it and she doesn't live there. There isn't even any evidence to suggest she did live there. There may be evidence that she paid the council tax at one time. I paid my brother's for a short time when he was experiencing difficulties, doesn't mean I'm responsible in the future just because I wrote them a couple of cheques.

 

 

Thanks hightail, this makes sense. The only problem now is that landlord reported my mate lived there until April 2009 and council counted on his words and he even dosen't need to prove any evidence, simple due to no contract was signed between them.

[Aviva]

May be good to get in touch with the Valuation Tribunal at www.valuationtribunal.gov.co.uk

 

They can deal with issues about liability for CT as well as valuations.

[oscar9163]

May be good to get in touch with the Valuation Tribunal at www.valuationtribunal.gov.co.uk

 

They can deal with issues about liability for CT as well as valuations.

 

Thanks for your information and yes I have passed this to my mate already. Cheers!

[Allwood]

Oh, forgot to tell one thing.

 

Since my mate cannot get hold to the landlord, and then she asked if council can contact the landlord to solve this problem. The funniest thing is they cannot get hold to the landlord either as they dont have information.

 

On the other hand, the council insist requiring my mate to that stupid confirmation.

 

All the council has to do is check with the land regisitry to see the owner of the property indeed your mate can do this as well for a small fee.

 

Perhaps it is one of these people in the council that owns the property and they know how to stitch people up, these council officials have no morals regarding joe public the tax payer.

[hallowitch]

Are you dealing with the council when you phone or letter them

most councils contract out council tax administration and enforcement

therefore when you think you are dealing with the council you are not

 

one of these company's is capita who own Equita bailiffs so its in there own interest to collect as much council tax arrears as possible regardless of who owes it

 

personally i would write a formal complaint to the chief executive of your council include a copy of your tenancy agreement for the year they are chasing that you don't owe tell them if its not sorted your next step is a complaint to the local government ombudsman

[oscar9163]

Thanks to all guys giving suggestions here.

 

Updated:

 

I have just called valuation tribunal and advised to write a letter to the council saying my mate disagree that she should be liable for that bill. If the response is still negative, then my mate will have a appeal to valuation tribunal for a hearing to decide.

 

I will keep updating here for the progress for information.

 

Cheers all!!!!!

[jqinfo]

!

Thanks to all guys giving suggestions here.

 

Updated:

 

I have just called valuation tribunal and advised to write a letter to the council saying my mate disagree that she should be liable for that bill. If the response is still negative, then my mate will have a appeal to valuation tribunal for a hearing to decide.

 

I will keep updating here for the progress for information.

 

Cheers all!!!!!

 

 

I believe the council goes for whoever is the easiest to contact or easiest to get the money out of! I am a landlord who let a house without a contract, (silly I know, but to family and I thought that would be ok, but they did a bunk and didnt pay the rent). The council want me to pay it and have charged me for the whole period they were there and they have stated that I have to prove that they lived there!! I have a separate period of time in the hands of the Valuation Tribunal and the council are refusing to accept that these tenants were in my house and are insisting that it becomes part of the period disputed with the Tribunal!!

 

I wish I had your council who I could tell what I wanted and they would believe it!!!

 

Good luck.

 

JQ

Edited June 6, 2010 by jqinfo
Spelling. Doh!