Cohen hearing on Tuesday..

[DonkeyB]

Welcome averagestan!

[shane247]

I'm putting together a document listing the points i need to raise tomorrow, kinda like a defense. Any help on how to put it together would be appreciated. Point 1 will be about the default notice.

[hammyhound]

Sorry Donkey,

 

Under key information it states "if signed in store this is not cancellable" Only just spotted it.

 

Shane is now saying signed off premises in which case that is a totally different ball game.

 

Shane, can I get this right, you went into a store and they said we will send it out to you.

 

Also where are the T&Cs as Clause 6.3 is mentioned.

 

This is going to be a struggle for tomorrow we need more ammo I think.

 

Right Shane also in your defence you need to state that you have never received any cancellation rights nor any terms and conditions.

 

HH

[shane247]

I have never been into any premises as the product was bought via a website, not in store. There aren't and T&C's in Cohens witness statement, i have uploaded the whole CCA.

[shane247]

I have never been into any premises as the product was bought via a website, not in store. There aren't and T&C's in Cohens witness statement, i have uploaded the whole CCA.

[hammyhound]

Right the prescribed terms are there so its pointless attacking it.

 

Obviously the other side will get their say first but then you will speak.

 

Note all what has been said.

 

1. Default Notice - this is the copy sent by HC and this is the copy sent by Santander - point out the discrepancies. Inform them that their copy is incorrect as stated in their witness statement which they believe to be true.

 

2. Cancellation rights - mention that no cancellation rights were given to you when you took up the agreement and this is a fundamental right.

 

3. Terms and Conditions - there are no terms and conditions to the agreement as the agreement states Clause 6.3 - where is clause 6.3.

 

4. Notice of Assignment - according to the Law of Property Act a Notice of Assignment (if that's what they want to call it) should be either sent recorded delivery or at least first class post with tracking. Have the claimants got proof of either of these. If you have the envelope all the better.

 

5. Particulars of Claim - the usual paragraph 7 which HC always mentions - say that you don't know the contents of paragraph 7 as no terms and conditions have been supplied.

 

These are just a few points to start you off. You need loads of ammunition to discredit everything that has been said in the witness statement.

 

HH

[DonkeyB]

Remember, tomorrow is just a directions hearing, and as a litigant in person the judge should give you some leeway.

 

We need to get you through it so we can put together a full, solid written defence.

[DonkeyB]

Great stuff hammy

Edited April 26, 2010 by DonkeyB

[shane247]

Thanks for that hammy, i will put all of that into the document.

Just to clear it up a bit; why am i mentioning cancellation rights? Sorry to sound like a doof, i'm just completely new to all of this.

[shane247]

Also, should i mention them sending me an Evidence of Means income/expenditure form to fill out? I read somewhere that they're not allowed to do this.

[hammyhound]

Without receiving cancellation rights the CCA is invalid.

 

Dont bother about the I & E form judge wont be interested.

 

Good luck.

 

HH

[shane247]

Thanks. I think i need it.

[DandD]

In the POC HC refer to "Clause 7".(They do this a lot). I cannot find this clause in your agreement.

The agreement they have provided is not the one they refer to in the POC.

 

Debs

[shane247]

Thanks a lot Debs. Anything else i should add before it's too late?

[DandD]

I spotted this when I filed my AQ, when I did my Draft Directions I specifically requested the agreement they referred to, which included "Clause 7", ( and the interest rate was different ).

Mine was also a storecard conversion, so the account ref no. was different.

 

It may be late in the day, but clearly when HC issued the claim, they did not have the agreement. The POC are inaccurate, as the agreement they have provided does not contain the clause they refer to, & rely upon to add interest at that rate.

 

Good Luck

 

Debs

[shane247]

Just got home from the hearing. It didn't go well.

Cohen's solicitor and the Judge himself both expected me to give in and agree to pay Cohen. I explained that i hadn't changed my mind and still wanted to defend.

I focused on the Default Notice issue and explained about the differences between the two copies. The Judge didn't care. He shrugged it off as a mistake by Cohen.

The Judge spoke of how my defense is 'based on technicalities' and is just 'stuff downloaded from the Internet'. Before i could explain my other points about the Terms and Conditions that are missing etc, the Judge ended the meeting and said he will arrange a proper hearing. The worst part of all is when the Judge asked 'Do you admit the debt?' i said 'Yes'. It looks like I'm well and truly buggered. I was just so nervous. The Judge also made me hand over a copy of my Default Notice to Cohen.

[DonkeyB]

Don't panic. The judge was mistaken. In admitting the debt, you have to clarify that yes, you had a card, and used the facility, but you do not acknowledge that CL Finance have a right to it.

 

A full written defence will be a hard one for them to overcome. The default notice is not a de minimis issue and the judge will have to have it spelled out for him.

[shane247]

Do you really think i still have a chance with winning this? They have the correct Default Notice now, and they have me on tape admitting the debt. I just feel like i'm losing ammunition.

[DonkeyB]

You did not admit owing money to CL Finance - merely that you had a debt with the original creditor. Very different.

[shane247]

That's true. I actually said 'I admit owing the debt to Santander'.

I suppose i just wait around for a letter with the hearing date now then? How long are these things normally adjourned for?

[dizzyblonde1966]

Shane ,mail sent, i have got a sra investigation going on into cohens submitting a dodgy dn, so of great interest to me too,

 

Howard Cohen and another reconstructed default notice,

and from what you say reconstructed with incorrect data

Did the amount to remedy the breach go upwards in amount in cohens favour , or was it in your favour,?

 

How many time will they be allowed to get away with submitting these inacurate reconstructed default notices before the courts do something about it,?

 

Did Cohens swear in their witness statement it was a copy of the default notice served upon you by the original creditor?

 

Your original dn will take priority over any dn cohens have knocked up on their printing machine, so keep yours nice and safe

its going to be cohens bugbear

 

DB X

[DonkeyB]

DB, the dates were different and the period to comply and pay arrears was different. Funnily, on Cohen's version it gave enough time - the original did not! Yes, sworn in WS.

[dizzyblonde1966]

DB, the dates were different and the period to comply and pay arrears was different. Funnily, on Cohen's version it gave enough time - the original did not! Yes, sworn in WS.

 

Thanks DonkeyB,

 

Shane, you really should report cohens to the sra too, please see the mail i sent you ,theres quiet a bit going on behind the scenes with my dodgy dn and im not the only person awaiting the outcome of the sra investigation so for now cant disclosure too much on an open thread.

 

But any original document will take precedent over a recon,

so no worries there, Cohens can squirm and try to wriggle as much as they like,yours will/should always take priority, your original is going to cause them some headaches,

 

DB

Edited April 27, 2010 by dizzyblonde1966

[hammyhound]

Shane,

 

You haven't lost this was only a directions hearing but you need to go in with some ammo rather than not saying anything at all. At least it gives the other side something to chew on and that you are not going to give up.

 

Your trial will probably be in about 2 months. Let's see if HC pay the hearing fee but in the meantime when you receive the hearing date let us know - don't leave it until the last minute.

 

Don't forget as I see it if you lose you can only pay what you can afford but with HC there is a very good chance you will succeed.

 

HH

[DonkeyB]

Shane

Hope all the support is reassuring you! You have a good case.