Cohen hearing on Tuesday..

[shane247]

If you've read my other thread, you'll know Howard Cohen are trying to take me to court over a debt to Santander. I sent them the disclosure letter last Saturday and this is there reply. It's pretty much what people have told me they'll say..

 

"We acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 30th November 2009 in which you have made a request under CPR 31.14 for documentation mentioned in our Particulars of Claim.

 

Please note that as a bulk issuer we are unable to store the necessary documents on site and we are currently in the process of retreiving the documents requested.

 

Therefore, please accept this letter as our agreement to a general extension of time. Once we have provided you with the documents requested we will grant a further 14 days for you to submit your defence

 

We trust this is in order."

 

Thoughts? Do i reply?

[dpick]

Hi I am no expert they will be along later but my 2p is.

 

If they have already started court proceeding then contact the court with a copy of this letter or enter the embarrassed defence enclosing this letter. As far as I am aware if Cohen has started proceedings it is not up to then to give extra time, maybe just an excuse to get judgement by default.

 

dpick

[shane247]

Yeah, that's what i think there trying to do. I'm not that stupid though. I'll see what the experts have to say.

[BANKMARE]

Seems to be the latest ploy by HC i got exactly the same letter (dates different of course) with mine.

I had alrady submitted an embarrassed defence as they hadnt responded in the 7 days.

[GhostDebt]

Stick to the court timetable unless the court tells you otherwise.

 

Do you have the embarressed defence available?

[42man]

Since when does Howard Cohen have authority to bend the rules on court procedure ?.....they seem to be misleading you. I would report this to the OFT and the SRA....this isn't the first time they have attempted to mislead. As has been said continue as normal....

[42man]

Have a read here too - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/206593-howard-cohen-discussion-thread.html

[hungrybear]

Go only by the court timescales that the court tells you. What they are saying is they submitted a claim without the paperwork to hand to determine if it is a valid claim. That is their problem not your.

 

Do NOT go over the court timeframe. If they dont come up with the documents by the time your defense has to be in the submit an embarrassed/holding defense

[ncf355]

Given the crap I went through with these Muppets (and the crap I witnessed otyhers taking in an almost identical pattern) it is beyond me that they are allowed to carry on practising law

[DonkeyB]

What an unbelievable letter. How many more scams are these jokers going to try to get a default judgment? Report this letter to the court, and maybe include it in your defence as an example of the claimant trying to mislead you.

[shane247]

So the best thing to do now would be getting my embarassed defence sorted and sent to the court? Is there a template for this or is it something you have to start from scratch?

 

And also, do i have 14 days from the issue date to send my defence, or do i have 28 days from the date i sent the acknowledgement of service? I'm a bit confused about the rules.

Edited December 5, 2009 by shane247

[hungrybear]

So the best thing to do now would be getting my embarassed defense sorted and sent to the court? Is there a template for this or is it something you have to start from scratch?

 

 

It's something you have to tailor to your situation. Have a look here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/194748-welcome-finance-howard-cohen.html

 

It's a HC case that was discontinued and there's a starter for 10 defense on post #18.

 

other threads with a defense posted include. Look in the legal section in the cases WON bit and go through a few threads so you understand the entire process and what a holding defence is:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/137882-natwest-shakespeare-putsman-court.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/157973-welcome-fianance-court-case-4.html#post1704890

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/122190-county-court-summons-can-2.html#post1292939

 

Finally,

 

It's your defence make sure it says what you want and that you know why you have got each point in it.

 

Post a draft and we'll have a look see and comment.. At then end of the day though it is your responsibility.

[shane247]

Thanks for the thread links. Gonna get started on my defence as soon as possible. Any idea about the defence deadline question? I read on the money claim website that it's 28 days from the day you acknowledge? Just want to be sure though. Tried ringing the court today to make sure but they're only open monday to friday.

[hungrybear]

Thanks for the thread links. Gonna get started on my defence as soon as possible. Any idea about the defence deadline question? I read on the money claim website that it's 28 days from the day you acknowledge? Just want to be sure though. Tried ringing the court today to make sure but they're only open monday to friday.

 

 

RING THEM FIRST THING ON MONDAY AND CONFIRM BY E-MAIL

[DonkeyB]

No, acknowledgment gets you a further 14 days from the date of service in addition to the 14 to file your defence, which I think is taken as 4 days after the claim was issued (can someone please correct me if I'm wrong?).

 

So you effectively have 28+4 from the date on the claim.

[shane247]

Is there any difference between sending the defense in the mail and sending it online?

[PGH7447]

in the post you get more room to write things online you are limited to I think 8000 characters which sounds a lot but it isnt

[shane247]

Hi all.

 

Just wondered if any of you could look over my defense and point out anything that's wrong or anything i should add. It's my first ever defense, so excuse me if it isn't very good.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

IN THE NORTHAMPTON COUNTY COURT

 

 

Case No: xxxxxxxxxx

 

 

BETWEEN:

CL Finance Limited (Claimant)

And

xxxxxxx – (Defendant)

 

DEFENCE

 

1 I am the Defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by Howard Cohen, acting on behalf of CL Finance Limited.

 

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the Claimants Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

3. It is denied that the Claimant served upon the Defendant a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) of The Consumer Credit Act 1974, and which was in prescribed form and compliant with the provisions of Section 88 of the Act.

 

4. In accordance with point 3, Section 87(1) of the Act states that ‘service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with Section 88 (a default notice) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled’ and therefore the Claimant has no right of action.

 

5. The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the method by which the Claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, or the date that on which a Default Notice was issued to the Defendant that is required for the Claimant to have a legitimate right of action under the purported Agreement or any other matters necessary to substantiate the Claimant’s claim.

 

6. A copy of the mentioned credit agreement that the Claimant cites in the Particulars of Claim and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served attached to the claim form.

 

7. A copy of the mentioned Default Notice cited in the Particulars of Claim, and as required by Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, has not been attached to the claim form.

 

8. No copies of statements relating to the purported credit agreement have been included with the claim form and no particulars have been offered supporting the Claimants claims of my indebtedness to them.

 

9. Furthermore, on 30 November 2009 I requested the disclosure of information pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules, which is vital to this case from the Claimant. The information requested amounted to copies of the credit agreement referred to in the particulars of claim and any default or termination notices.

 

10. The Claimant has failed to comply with my request for disclosure entirely and it is suggested that such failure highlights that there is no case for me to answer.

 

11. Since the Claimant has failed to comply with the request for disclosure as outlined in point 10, it is requested the court consider striking out the Claimant’s statement of claim as it fails to disclose reasonable grounds for bringing the claim and there is no case to answer.

 

12. In view of the matters pleaded above, the Defendant respectfully requests that the Court gives consideration as to whether the Claimant’s Particulars of Claim should be struck out as they disclose no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim, and/or that it fails to comply with CPR Part 16.

 

13. In the alternative if the Court decides not to strike out the Claimant’s case, in order for the Defendant to determine that the documents the Claimant claims to be relying upon are properly executed and contain the required prescribed terms and correct figures as to make such an Agreement enforceable by virtue of Section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, the Defendant respectfully requests that the Court orders full disclosure of the following documents pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules:

 

a) A copy of the executed credit agreement as referred to in the Particulars of Claim, containing the prescribed terms under Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and signed in the prescribed manner by both the debtor and creditor;

 

b) A copy of the terms & conditions as referred to in, and in force at the time of, any such executed Agreement;

 

c) A full breakdown of how the sum claimed has been calculated;

 

d) A copy of any Default Notice as referred to in the Particulars of Claim and issued under the terms of any such executed Agreement;

 

e) Any other documents the Claimant seeks to rely on.

 

14. Alternatively, if the Court is not in agreement with point 13, I respectfully request a stay in proceedings until such time as the Claimant complies with the requests outlined in point 13 above or until the Court orders its compliance with the same. I will then be in a position to file a fully particularised Defence and Counterclaim and will seek the Courts permission to amend my statement of case accordingly.

 

 

Statement of Truth

 

I xxxxxx, The Defendant, believe the above statement to be true and factual

 

 

 

Signed:

 

 

 

Dated:

[shane247]

bump. need to send it off over next couple of days.

[GhostDebt]

Evening Shane,

 

Bit more info please.

When was the claim dated?

Did you CPR cohens? what response did you get?

Did you acknowledge service and now need to submit your defence after the additional 14 days has passed?

 

Are you intending to submit an embarrssed defence?

 

Regards

[shane247]

Hi GhostDebt.

 

The claim date was the 23rd November, i acknowledged service on the 30th November, i rang the court and they told me i had until the 26th December to post my defense. I CPR'd Cohen and they responded with a letter saying 'we are a bulk issuer and your documents are stored off site etc..' and that they would give me an extra 14 days, which is tosh because they cant do that.

[hungrybear]

Hi all.

 

Just wondered if any of you could look over my defense and point out anything that's wrong or anything i should add. It's my first ever defense, so excuse me if it isn't very good.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

IN THE NORTHAMPTON COUNTY COURT

 

 

Case No: xxxxxxxxxx

 

 

BETWEEN:

CL Finance Limited (Claimant)

And

xxxxxxx – (Defendant)

 

DEFENCE

 

1 I am the Defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by Howard Cohen, acting on behalf of CL Finance Limited.

 

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in the Claimants Particulars of Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof.

 

3. It is denied that the Claimant served upon the Defendant a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) of The Consumer Credit Act 1974, and which was in prescribed form and compliant with the provisions of Section 88 of the Act.

 

the defendant is prepared to swear on oath that no such DN was served and puts the claimant to strict proof of compliant service of a compliant DN

 

4. In accordance with point 3, Section 87(1) of the Act states that ‘service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with Section 88 (a default notice) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled’ and therefore the Claimant has no right of action.

 

5. The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the method by which the Claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, or the date that (delete) on which a Default Notice was issued to the Defendant that is required for the Claimant to have a legitimate right of action under the purported Agreement or any other matters necessary to substantiate the Claimant’s claim.too complicated a sentence. re-arrange into 2/3 sentences

 

6. A copy of the mentioned credit agreement that the Claimant cites in the Particulars of Claim and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served attached to the claim form. Nor has the claimant taking any resonable steps to provide this subsequently persuant to cpr part 16.

 

7. A copy of the mentioned Default Notice cited in the Particulars of Claim, and as required by Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, has not been attached to the claim form.

 

8. No copies of statements relating to the purported credit agreement have been included with the claim form and no particulars have been offered supporting the Claimants claims of my indebtedness to them.

 

9. Furthermore, on 30 November 2009 I requested the disclosure of information pursuant to the Civil Procedure Ruleswhich? 31.14 / 18?, which is vital to this case from the Claimant. The information requested amounted to copies of the credit agreement referred to in the particulars of claim and any default or termination notices.

 

10. The Claimant has failed to comply with my request for disclosure entirely and it is suggested that such failure highlights that there is no case for me to answer.

 

11. Since the Claimant has failed to comply with the request for disclosure as outlined in point 10, it is requested the court consider striking out the Claimant’s statement of claim under cpr 3.4.2 as it fails to disclose reasonable grounds for bringing the claim and offers no legal case to answer.

 

12. In view of the matters pleaded above, the Defendant respectfully requests that the Court gives consideration as to whether the Claimant’s Particulars of Claim should be struck out as they disclose no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim, and/or that it fails to comply with CPR Part 16.cpr 16 is a SHOULD supply documents with the POC. CPR 3.4.2 is the request for strike out

 

13. In the alternative if the Court decides not to strike out the Claimant’s case, in order for the Defendant to determine that the documents the Claimant claims to be relying upon are properly executed and contain the required prescribed terms and correct figures as to make such an Agreement enforceable by virtue of Section 87 you are sure it is 87 you wish to rely on here and not 61 and/or 127 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, the Defendant respectfully requests that the Court orders full disclosure of the following documents pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules: over-complicated, break it up a bit

 

a) A true copy of the executed credit agreement as referred to in the Particulars of Claim, containing the prescribed terms under Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and signed in the prescribed manner by both the debtor and creditor;

 

b) A copy of the terms & conditions as referred to in, and in force at the time of, any such executed Agreement;

 

c) A full breakdown of how the sum claimed has been calculated;

 

d) A copy of any Default Notice as referred to in the Particulars of Claim and issued under the terms of any such executed Agreement;

 

e) Any other documents the Claimant may seek to rely on.

 

14. Alternatively, if the Court is not in agreement with point 13, I respectfully request a stay in proceedings until such time as the Claimant complies with the requests outlined in point 13 above or until the Court orders its compliance with the same. I will then be in a position to file a fully particularised Defence and Counterclaim and will seek the Courts permission to amend my statement of case accordingly. not sure of the point of this arnt you recovering 13?

 

 

Statement of Truth

 

I xxxxxx, The Defendant, believe the above statement to be true and factual

 

 

 

Signed:

 

 

 

Dated:

 

as said above, we need more info to comment fully, it's hard to help fully without the poc and the history to back up what is going on. Dare I suggest that it's a bit wordy and your sentences are over complicated in places. Short punchy points in one or two sentences that get to the point quickly - else the judge MAY get fed up trying to understand it.

 

A few comments in red

 

- hope you take the criticism in the spirit of helping that is intended and well done for having a bash and not just pleading for someone to write it for you.

[shane247]

thanks, hungrybear. i really appreciate your help and the time you took to add the comments. i will edit the defense accordingly now.

[shane247]

Defense has been submitted.

 

Wish me luck.

[GhostDebt]

Keep us posted and as hungrybear said, if it proceeds further some more information will help people to comment.

 

Regards