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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
    • I would say You should accept it - I HIGHLY doubt you will  be able to claim for letters at trial ans they’re offering you that, which is higher monetary value than interest.   Also they raise a good point, getting interest at anything above 4% is lucky these days, yes judges give it, but rarily above 4%   Also you might find depending on the judge  you don’t get some costs if you take it all the way over £7.40 when court woukdnt award letters costs and thus meaning their award would be less than evris offer which was made    Up to you though but the wait will be 3-4mo for a trial date at least
    • Hi Folks, Been 162 days! Just by way of update. Today I received a text from Opos Ltd so no doubt Capquest are renting the debt out to anybody who fancies a nibble. Safe to say I will not be responding.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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CBR vs Halifax/BOS


CBR600F
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Well I scanned them in but the quality is carp.

Doesn't matter how good a scanner or camera is if there are missing bits they stay missing............

Halifax_Agree.jpg

Halifax_TandCs.jpg

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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PLEASE NOTE DUE TO RECENT LEGAL CASES THIS BELOW IS BEING REVIEWED.. 7th January 2010

 

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations

(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

 

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

 

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.

When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

 

The Pescribed Terms are these

 

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

 

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;

(b) Amount of repayments;

© Frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) Dates of repayments;

(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C Rate of interestlink3.gif

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

--------------------------

 

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

 

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

 

BC and D Apply

 

 

 

 

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

  • Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
  • The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
  • There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
  • And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

 

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement

A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

 

A and B apply

 

For a Hire Agreement

 

B is Applicable

 

This paper only covers section 127(3) of the Act agreements can also be unenforceable by contravention of sections 1 and4 this will be the subject of the next paper.

Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Ammendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreemens executed before that date.

 

In my view it doesn't comply with this. Plus it needs to be legible.

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Thanks cymruambyth for posting that up.

 

So the question is what should I do.

 

Obviously I need to prepare a proper defence.

 

But would it be sensible to write to BOS stating that the documents are of a very poor quality but of what is readable it does appear they do not contain the relevant prescribed terms and therefore the agreement is unenforceable.

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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I would start working on a full defence. AS for letting them know, it probably isn't worth the paper.

This is only my opinion, so if you have no further advice in a few days time I would PM a more experienced Cagger or a Site Team member with a link to your thread and ask them for guidance.

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Update,

 

Received today requested information.

 

The agreement(which is the application) and which is barely legible was from Bank One and was dated as received at the beginning of Oct 1999, I can't make the the 2nd digit of the date out first is also most certainly only a zero.

 

Does anyone know the connection between Bank One and Halifax/BOS?

 

The DN they have provided is what is called a mail merge template document. They state it would have been sent 1st class.

 

 

 

 

Halifax apparently took over Bank One Cashback Card sometime in 2000.

 

With respect to the Default Notice, I am assuming you did not receive an original therefore you would not have access to the envelope.

 

Have you kept envelopes from other correspondence of Halifax or noticed what type of mail service they use ? It is my observation that nearly all of Halifax Mail is sent out via second class or UK Mail services. Having just looked at the Default Notice sent to OH not only was it sent via 2nd class UK Mail, they also havent given the correct amount of time to remedy.

 

Can you let us see a copy of the "template" they have sent you and can you also let us know the date of issue and the date of remedy. Thanks.

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BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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In the section headed "Conditions of Use" at the bottom of your agreement. Is that a separate section ?

 

I also note they say, that these terms and conditions are taken from clauses 6 and 7 of Bank One terms and conditions and then direct you to " Please refer to them for applicable definitions".

 

I am not sure that is correct, ALL the prescribed terms should be in the one document or documents supplied at the same time. So where are the terms and conditions that you need to refer to ?

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Unfortunately I was not keeping envelopes but as the letter they just sent was dated the 27/4/2010, didn't arrive until 30/4/2010. Then I think they will have hard work convincing anyone that the DN would have arrived the next day!

 

All Docs to date: -

Halifax DN

th_HalifaxDNPage1_Edited.jpg th_HalifaxDNPage2_Edited.jpg

Halifax Termination Letter and Letter Before Action

th_Halifaxtermination_Edited.jpg th_HalifaxLetterB4Action_Edited.jpg

Halifax Claim form

th_Halifax_Claim_form_Edited.jpg

Halifax Letter 270410

th_Halifax_Letter_270410_Edited.jpg th_Halifax_Letter27_Env.jpg

Halifax Agreement

th_Halifax_TandCs-1.jpg th_Halifax_Agree-1.jpg

Halifax DN Template

th_Halifax_DN_Template_Page_1.jpg th_Halifax_DN_Template_Page_2.jpg

Halifax DN Log

th_Halifax_DN_Log_Edited.jpg

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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  • 2 weeks later...

The latest from BOS:-

 

bos_letter_070510_edited.jpg

 

Now an interesting question is that they say:-

 

'If you still dispute that the sum is due by you please let us know this and we shall arrange for the court to arrange a hearing on this matter'

 

 

Now am I being a little bit thick hear?

 

They are affectively saying, to my mind, that if I don't dispute it, then they are NOT going to continue the court proceedings?

 

Any comments are most welcome.

 

I have been a bit distracted due to other more (can you believe it) serious problems...

 

CBR

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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  • 4 weeks later...

I am still waiting to hear from the courts about about my case with BOS/Halifax.

 

I have still not heard anything after over forty days from submitting my embarrassed defence...

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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  • 2 weeks later...

"Its been a long time..." (Star Trek Enterprise)

 

Anyway cymruambyth I know how this works so have just been expecting the AQ.

 

Finally got the courage up to phone the Bulk center.

 

Oh it is such a shame I am happily married!

 

The wonderful lady who dealt with my inquiry made me feel like a real person and the victim in all this, telling me that I had done the right thing by submitting a defence.

 

 

The case has ( as I suspected) been stayed.

 

For BOS to do anything they will have to apply for a lifting of the stay.

 

The defence was submitted the 27th April.

 

Am I right in thinking that everyday they NOW wait makes it more unlikely for the stay to be lifted????

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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Yes, the case is stayed until such times as they decide to move forward ie pay for the next step.

 

I think if you believe you have a strong enough defence then you can apply to have their claim struck out. That will sort it once and for all.

 

Please be aware that these Money claims can linger for quite a while. I have one that has been in limbo for nigh on a year. :(

 

It is worth telephoning at least once a month to ask the status of the claim.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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  • 1 month later...

I wouldn't get too excited about the stay. My case was stayed over 3 months before those marvelous solicitors at Scm took it over.

The important thing here is to be seen to be doing something like seeking disclosure of documents needed to defend under cpr31.14 or actioning a complaint with Halifax directly over the issues that concern you.

 

Long, long process though and it certainly isn't an easy road

 

My thread may show you what you will soon be facing with reconstituted agreements and failure to disclose. I have the allocation/directions hearing soon which should be great entertainment.

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/251664-g-bank-scotland-scm.html

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  • 11 months later...

Hi all,

a year on.

I have had one letter in Feb offering a deal.

Nothing since.

 

How do I go for a strike out?

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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Hi CBR

 

Make application using the N244 and request a SO detailing the length of stay and none response of the Claimant.

It would cost £45 without an hearing but the DJ may request one and so you would have to pay the difference unless you are exempt.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

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