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At this stage I will be brief(as possible).

 

I got the bulk center papers and have acknowledge that I wish to dispute the whole debt etc etc.

 

I sent CPR31.14 request to BOS.

 

Got a reply saying their usual etc etc.

 

They still have not provided the requested agreement and DN so I need to post an embarrassed defence.

 

There are loads around and I am sure that I will find something suitable to use.

However my real problem is that there is a bit of information pertinent to this case that I do not want to disclose to the last possible moment.

I need to see the agreement in whatever shape or form that they have it in.

Until I see this it I can't proceed with any coherent defence.

 

But I don't want to tip their hand.

 

So I guess what I am beating around the bush about is this:-

 

If I file an embarrassed defence, because of certain documents not being provided. can I then, at a future date, add that they have not provided **** document?

 

cbr

 

PS I will be posting up the few docs I do have.

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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Once an embarrased defence & Aos have been filed you can use N266 & CPR 31.19 to ask questions, if you ask them in the correct manner you may be able to encourage the answers you are seeking :-)

 

This does not answer your question but may help in due course

 

NTTF

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OK,

I have given up looking for suitable Embarassed defence that fits my circumstances.

 

So this what I am going to submit, it will be done online so I am not sure if I need to put the normal stuff at the and bottom as per various examples on CAG.

1. I neither deny nor admit to any indebtedness to the claimant.

2. I sent the claimant a CPR31.14 request for the original signed agreement and default notice relied upon in the Particulars of the Claim.

3. The claimant received the CPR31.14 request on the 9/4/10.

4. The claimant confirmed receipt of the CPR31.14 request in a letter dated 13/4/10.

5. As of the 26/4/10 the claimant has not supplied the requested documents.

6. The claimant stated in a letter before action dated the 19/2/10 that they will rely on the following documents in court and I quote : -

“copy agreement, default notice information and statements”

7. I am therefore embarrassed that with out the requested documents in 2 or indeed copies of the documents mentioned in 5 that I am unable to present a coherent defence.

8. I also ask permission to submit an amended defence if the claimant supplies the requested documents mention in 2.

 

E&OE
am I allowed to say that?
:D

Any help in tarting this up a bit and any obvious omissions would be most welcome.

Edited by CBR600F
One day I may actually learn how to tpye....

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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The date on the bulk papers was the 26/3/10 so I really need someone to have a look to make sure I have not made a boo boo.

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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Thx NTTF for looking in.

 

Yes AOS already filed 14 days ago.

I believe I have until the 28/4/10 to file my defence.

26/3/10 + 5 + 28.

 

But I would rather get it in to day.

 

Still no reply with regards to CPR31.14 other than a pathetic we are processing you request date 13/4/10.

Hence I need to get an EBD in.

 

Then look at my next course of action with regards to non compliance.

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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I see you have still not had an answer to your original post about being able to add they have not provided.... doc, however in my opinion (for what it's worth) the document we are not talking about is probably one of the one's they would seek to rely on in court.

maybe you should copy the POC up so that we can view it, but if your CPR request has not yet been replied to you can ask more questions....

 

Submit an E'd defence that suits you i.e.

The claimant has not fully particularlised the claim, the claimant has failed to comply with CPR requests, the claimant has failed to provide all relevant document which they will rely upon in court at a later date, the defendant is embd... type of thing but use the oppurtunity to word it so that they have been given the oppurtunity to mention the document- but without refering to specifics. I suggest that way you should be able to raise the point later when things do become specific

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1. I neither deny nor admit to any indebtedness to the claimant.

2. I sent the claimant a CPR31.14 request for the original signed agreement and default notice relied upon in the Particulars of the Claim.

3. The claimant received the CPR31.14 request on the 9/4/10.

4. The claimant confirmed receipt of the CPR31.14 request in a letter dated 13/4/10.

5. As of the 26/4/10 the claimant has not supplied the requested documents.

6. The claimant stated in a letter before action dated the 19/2/10 that they will rely on the following documents in court and I quote : -

“copy agreement, default notice information and statements”

7. I have not been furnished with copies of the documents mentioned in 6.

8. I am also of the belief that the claimant was not the original alleged creditor.

9. I am therefore embarrassed that with out the requested documents in 2 or indeed copies of the documents mentioned in 6 that I am unable to present a coherent defence.

10. I also ask permission to submit an amended defence if the claimant supplies the requested documents mentioned in 2 or at least those mentioned in 6.

 

E&OE am I allowed to say that? :D

Edited by CBR600F

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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the oppurtunity to word it so that they have been given the oppurtunity to mention the document-

 

8. I am also of the belief that the claimant was not the original alleged creditor.

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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1. I neither deny nor admit to any indebtedness to the claimant.

2. I sent the claimant a CPR31.14 request for the original signed agreement and default notice relied upon in the Particulars of the Claim.

3. The claimant received the CPR31.14 request on the 9/4/10.

4. The claimant confirmed receipt of the CPR31.14 request in a letter dated 13/4/10.

5. As of the 26/4/10 the claimant has not supplied the requested documents.

6. The claimant stated in a letter before action dated the 19/2/10 that they will rely on the following documents in court and I quote : -

“copy agreement, default notice information and statements”

7. I have not been furnished with copies of the documents mentioned in 6.

8. I am also of the belief that the claimant was not the original alleged creditor.

9. I am therefore embarrassed that with out the requested documents in 2 or indeed copies of the documents mentioned in 6 that I am unable to present a coherent defence.

10. I also ask permission to submit an amended defence if the claimant supplies the requested documents mentioned in 2 or at least those mentioned in 6.

 

E&OE am I allowed to say that? :D

 

I would change 9 to.......

 

9: Without the requested documents I am unable to submit a fully particularised defence and the defendant is embarrassed.

 

I would be a little reluctant to use the word "coherent"..:lol:

 

10. Dont give them an either / or choice. You want the documents from BOTH 2 and 6 you also want the NOA (8) to prove they have right of action.

 

7: Take out "furnished" and put "provided"

 

8: No Notice of Assignment has been received which would prove the Claimant's right to bring this action.

 

HTH

Edited by citizenB
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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thxs CB

 

Defence now reads: -

 

1. I neither deny nor admit to any indebtedness to the claimant.

2. I sent the claimant a CPR31.14 request for the original signed agreement and default notice relied upon in the Particulars of the Claim.

3. The claimant received the CPR31.14 request on the 9/4/10.

4. The claimant confirmed receipt of the CPR31.14 request in a letter dated 13/4/10.

5. As of the 26/4/10 the claimant has not supplied the requested documents.

6. The claimant stated in a letter before action dated the 19/2/10 that they will rely on the following documents in court and I quote : -

“copy agreement, default notice information and statements”

7. I have not been provided with copies of the documents mentioned in 6.

8. No Notice of Assignment has been received which would prove the Claimant's right to bring this action.

9. Without the requested documents I am unable to submit a fully particularised defence and the defendant is embarrassed.

10. I also ask permission to submit an amended defence if the claimant supplies the requested documents mention in 2 and 6.

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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That should do it:D

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thxs again.

 

Submitted.

 

Feel relieved at getting the defence in, I am sure I had until the end of tomorrow but I would rather play safe.

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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That's the cpr31.14 and E'D as the frontal attack:D

I need to follow this up with a rear guard action with regards to non compliance of the cpr31.14

 

So I need to do a cpr31.19(pointer in right direction please) and then if I understand it correctly an N266.

 

I assume that the N266 is after they have still failed to produce the requested documents and the case is at AQ or later?

 

Help on this would be much appreciated with tipping of scales and public worshiping, well a thxs, all I can afford...

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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Use the N266 form to ascertain facts i.e.

 

The CCA document you disclosed in your letter of 14th Jan is a true copy of the original.

 

Can be very useful if you know it is not a true copy and can prove it

 

Have a read of the CPR rules to know how best to use a CPR 32.19 (sorry I gave you the incorrect ref before)

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Update,

 

Received today requested information.

 

The agreement(which is the application) and which is barely legible was from Bank One and was dated as received at the beginning of Oct 1999, I can't make the the 2nd digit of the date out first is also most certainly only a zero.

 

Does anyone know the connection between Bank One and Halifax/BOS?

 

The DN they have provided is what is called a mail merge template document. They state it would have been sent 1st class.

 

Notably the letter was dated 27/4/10 a day before I had to file my defence!

 

Was this a deliberate ploy leaving it late for me to use this in my defence?

 

I will scan in the documents later and post up later tonight.

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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Well I guess I I had the feeling that they would come up with something.

 

Now I have the requested documents hopefully I will be able to put a proper defence up.

 

I am no longer scared of these people or any other creditors!

 

If this was a stunt that and they were hoping I would not fight then they were very very wrong!

Edited by CBR600F

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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The copies of the application and T&Cs are of a very poor quality, in that they are very light or low contrast, not sure how to best describe them. So its going to take a bit of work just getting some thing posted up here that is a reasonable file size and readable!

 

Again I wonder whether that is a deliberate tactic.

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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I thought of the right words to describe the documents!

 

Washed out!

Hindsight is wonderful......

 

But now knowledge and advice are life savers:D

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