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RBS Mint Loan - Court Action Started & Dodgy DN issues

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Please bear with me as I am fairly new to CAG and am still finding my way around things.

 

I sent off to RBS (now Mint) was RBS Advanta asking for CCA.

 

 

I have had virtually the same response & documents from RBS on 18 Feb 09 as STBINNZ refers to in thread dated 20 Feb.

 

 

They have also sent me two other documents

One of these is a consumer credit agreement and has a reference on the bottom of it of 5/97TC-10.

Nowhere is there any place for a signature.

 

 

The other document (in 2 pieces, possibly a front and back of document) looks more like an application form.

 

 

One page has my husband's signature on as secondary card holder.

My signature in the Principal cardholder box at bottom of form has been cut off (possibly when copied),

but from the squiggles I can see I would think it is my signature.

 

 

I cannot work out how to add these as attachments.

 

Can anyone advise whether or not this CCA looks enforceable, or how I should progress with it. :?

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Hi all

 

I defaulted on a Mint Credit Card and a Mint Loan last year and advised them that I was unable to pay due to financial hardship.

 

Mint Card replied thanking me for my letter and saying that best thing was to withdraw my credit facility and enclosed a DN. The DN is invalid as doesn't give sufficient time for breach to be remedied. The covering letter says "at the end of the stipulated period your agreement will be formally terminated".

 

I then received an Account Termination letter about a month later.

 

I didn't understand the technicalities of DNs at that time, but after doing much research on CAG I believe that Mint Card could be deemed to have unlawfully rescinded the agreement (as the DN was invalid).

 

I did come to an arrangement with them to make reduce payments and have made several. Is it too late to write to them accepting their unlawful rescission and therefore only being liable for the arrears at date of DN being issued?

 

The Account Termination letter does say the account has now been terminated. Could it still be open in some way if I am making payments on the existing balance. They also asked for card back but I didnt send it.

 

The Mint Loan situation is similar. I defaulted on it due to financial hardship of which I advised them. They issued a DN (invalid again on dates for remedy) and followed up with a Notice to Terminate YOur Loan Agreement. It says "we have no alternative but to terminate your loan ..." and goes on later on to say if I don't pay by a certain date they will take steps to recover the amount owed. The difference with the Mint Card is that I told them about my financial hardship and agreed reduced payments AFTER I'd been sent the DN and TN.

 

This was a couple of months ago, whilst the Mint Card was about 4 months. Is it too late to accept the unlawful recission of the Mint Loan.

 

Should I double check the accounts have been terminated or can I take the letters as read.

 

Urgent help appreciated.

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the covering letter was a termination letter.

 

however making the agreement was awkward

 

how much were the arrears at the time it was terminated?

 

when was it terminated

 

how much have you paid?

 

 

hopefully you have misunderstood that you have only agreed a repayment plan for the arrears

 

What you should have done after receiving either the DN and covering letter (which amounts to a post dated termination)or the later termination letter is to write to them accepting their unlawful repudiation and asking if you could come to an arrangement to pay the arrears which you agree were outstanding up until the termination

 

the same for the other one

 

why dont you search through your files in case you have overlooked it

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Thanks DD.

On one of them the arrears were just over £200 and the other one just over £300. The first one was terminated 4 mths ago the other 3 months ago.

I've paid approx £130 in total on the first one (2 payments made ) and about £70 on the other one again split into 2 payments.

 

Yes, you are quite right - I did think I was making an arrangement to pay off the arrears only. I will look back through my files for the copy letters.

 

Would you suggest I'd better write to them to point all this out and sending them a copy of the original letter.

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Thanks DD.

On one of them the arrears were just over £200 and the other one just over £300. The first one was terminated 4 mths ago the other 3 months ago.

I've paid approx £130 in total on the first one (2 payments made ) and about £70 on the other one again split into 2 payments.

 

Yes, you are quite right - I did think I was making an arrangement to pay off the arrears only. I will look back through my files for the copy letters.

 

Would you suggest I'd better write to them to point all this out and sending them a copy of the original letter.

 

 

referring to the FIRST ONE i would write along these lines

 

Dear Sirs

 

Your Ref Account XXXXXXXXXXX Terminated Agreement

 

By my reckoning i have paid 130 off of the arrears on this matter

 

Please advise me the remaining balance of the arrears left to pay as at the time of the termination

 

Yours F

 

XXXXX

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Thanks again DD. Have sent off letter and will wait to see what they reply before tackling the other one. Have also looked back through my files and found that did I write to both of them back in Nov accepting their unlawful rescission/termination.

 

Will post up when reply comes.

 

Many thanks

 

ALSO could you put me straight on something else related to dodgy DN's, Termination and Unlawful Rescission? If I've had a Dodgy DN then get a letter asking for the full balance BUT there is no mention in that letter of account being terminated/closed CAN IT STILL BE TAKEN as unlawful rescission?

Edited by Pumpkinhead
Additional question

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just goes to show that it pays to keep all your correspondence neat and tidy in one place and not all over the house

 

ps dont forget to keep ALL enevelopes for incoming letters and staple them to the back

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Thanks again DD. Have sent off letter and will wait to see what they reply before tackling the other one. Have also looked back through my files and found that did I write to both of them back in Nov accepting their unlawful rescission/termination.

 

Will post up when reply comes.

 

Many thanks

 

ALSO could you put me straight on something else related to dodgy DN's, Termination and Unlawful Rescission? If I've had a Dodgy DN then get a letter asking for the full balance BUT there is no mention in that letter of account being terminated/closed CAN IT STILL BE TAKEN as unlawful rescission?

 

YES!!

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read the thread

 

Tale of a dodgy DN

 

then (if you have the stamina) the further discussions on a tale of a dodgy DN

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I have recently received a court summons regarding a Mint Loan. I have already returned my Acknowledgement of Service and stated that I intend to defend the entire claim.

 

Here's the background of the case:

Took out 4 figure loan from Mint back in 2006. Due to financial difficulties did not keep up payments. Was sent first DN in Aug 09. I didn't pay the arrears but wrote to them explaining my financial troubles and asking them to wait 28 days until taking further action. Nothing else happened until I received a second DN in late Sept 09. BTW I am pretty sure the actual agreement is OK as had previously obtained copies of it.

 

Here's my first point:

I believe this DN is invalid in at least one respect, namely that I was not allowed the 14 days from date of service to remedy the default and pay the arrears. The DN was sent 2nd class and I have the envelope. A copy of the DN is attached - it was dated 23 Sept. By my calculations, allowing 4 business days for second class service takes us to 29 Sept as a weekend falls in between; so 14 days on from this means I had until 13 Oct to comply. HOWEVER, their DN says that payment must be received by 10 Oct.

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv213/pumpkinhead50/Mint%20Loan/Page1DN.jpg

 

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv213/pumpkinhead50/Mint%20Loan/Page2DN.jpg

 

 

I'm also not convinced that this DN meets the statutory requirements in terms of its layout so would welcome comments on this point too.

 

I received a Termination Notice dated 23 Oct - also attached.

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv213/pumpkinhead50/Mint%20Loan/TerminationLetter.jpg

 

Second key point:

I wrote to them in late Nov advising of financial difficulties, enclosing a personal budget planner and asking them to accept lower repayments. This was accepted and I made two payments at the lower amount until I realised (by reading lots of threads on Dodgy DNs etc) that they had in fact unlawfully rescinded the agreement by terminating the account on the back of an invalid DN. (I posted a thread about the situation on CAG and a link back to this is also posted at the end of this message.) I wrote to Mint in Jan this year accepting their unlawful rescission - see letter attached. They replied that their formal demand for repayment was sent correctly - also attached.

 

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv213/pumpkinhead50/Mint%20Loan/Letteraccepttermination.jpg

 

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv213/pumpkinhead50/Mint%20Loan/LetterfromMint.jpg

 

So, now I've received a Court Summons and attach the POC. There is no reference to the first DN. The POC gives the date of the DN and the date action was needed by as I've explained above - this I believe is good evidence that they DN was invalid due to insufficient time being given to remedy. Any other comments on the POC welcome.

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv213/pumpkinhead50/Mint%20Loan/POCPage1.jpg

 

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv213/pumpkinhead50/Mint%20Loan/POCPage2.jpg

 

I would welcome suggestions on this situation - the validity of the DN, the unlawful rescission and of course thoughts on the Defence I should use. I have until 14 May to file this. I am going to send Mint a CPR31.4 request too.

Edited by Pumpkinhead
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Hi ph,

 

Ok, first thing I would say is that you need to find out how much you were in arrears at their termination (less the payments made), so a CPR 18 request for statements is probably required there.

 

Lawfully, if the agreement is ok, you would have to repay the arrears at termination, obviously taking off any unlawful charges.

 

Haven't looked at the DN yet, but by your dates (And well done for keeping the envelope) definitely not enough time and that is not a de-minimus issue.

 

Issue a CPR31.14 request for the agreement & Default Notice. Give them 7 days.

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Yes, got the amount of the arrears at their termination. Haven't come across a CPR 18 before so will look into that. Appreciate I'll have to repay the arrears. What would be classed as unlawful charges?

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Anyone know of a CPR18 request letter on the forum anywhere that I could use?

 

Also, would appreciate more thoughts/comments/help on my situation.:|

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I've faxed and posted the solicitor the CPR31.14 request today.

 

Got a question about the arrears side of things though.

 

Given that they unlawfully rescinded the agreement by terminating it on the back of a defective DN, is the amount I legally have to pay them:

 

a. The amount of arrears (less unlawful charges etc) outstanding at the time the DN was issued OR

 

b. The amount of arrears outstanding at the time they sent me notice of termination

 

Also am I correct in believing that unlawful charges would be deemed those made AFTER termination of the account i.e. arrears letters fees and the like?

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b

 

unlawful charges are anything not in the agreement (if any) and then any penalty charges that you may be able to argue as unlawful

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Last week I sent another letter to the Sols as have not received reply to my first CPR31.14 request. Have given them until Wed this week to reply.

 

In meantime am working on my defence as this needs to be submitted by end of the week. I will post it up hopefully tomorrow.

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Have received letter from Sols today re my CPR31.14 request, advising the info has been requested from RBS and that they will give me 14 days from the posting of these documents to file a defence.

 

Taking the content of the above letter into account, if I don't submit my defence by this Friday (when originally due) is there any risk that a judgement could be made against me by default? Advice welcome:confused:

 

Also, do you think I should apply for a Strike Out or Summary Judgement as the DN was defective?

Edited by Pumpkinhead
Extra sentence

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write to the Court, perhaps even including a copy of the letter to let them know the score.

 

IMHO you will not get a SO/SJ against a faulty DN, that would be an issue to be decided at trial

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All has been quiet for a while as I have been chasing for information using CPR31.14. I've now received the documents I requested and need to submit my defence before next Tuesday 22 June.

 

My defence will be based on the DN being defective on dates and that their request for the balance on the back of it amounts to unlawful recission.

 

I've already had experience of putting another defence together on the same basis, so will start with a cut and paste job and then put it up for comments.

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Before I complete writing my defence I thought it might be worth putting the original loan agreement up here, just in case anyone can spot something wrong with it.

 

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv213/pumpkinhead50/Mint%20Loan/MintLoanAgreementSide1.jpg

 

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv213/pumpkinhead50/Mint%20Loan/MintLoanAgreementSide2.jpg

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what were the circumstances surrounding the taking out of the loan? - was it just an online app, signed in bank or what?

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I applied over the phone and then I think they sent me a document to sign before releasing the funds. I applied for the CCA agreement some while back and they sent me a print out of the loan application input information.

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