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hybrid77

How on earth do Welcome calculate their interest

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can you read those postage stamps?

 

scan your agreement

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc but leave all figures and dates.

goto one one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

browse to your pdf file and upload it

hit close this windows at the bottom below upload it box

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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It's the agreement that matters - what they put on an annual sttaement is irrelevant. Give us all the numbers for the agreement (ie the monthly payment, etc) and I willcheck the interest calc


Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

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Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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here is the agreement.

 

My statement is different as per the post above.

 

it says 'total amount of credit' is 25,000 yet my annual statement says 27985.

 

the agreement says 14% interest rate, yet my annual statement says 13.20%

Welcome amended2.pdf

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If they stuck to my agreement, then this would be the repayment schedule (as far as I can work out?, perhaps I am wrong?)

 

Based upon £25000, at 121 months at 14% interest rate this would be my repayment schedule. (Note that the monthly repayment is worked out at 386.69)

 

Monthly Payment = 386.69

 

Month Balance Principal Interest Payment Total Interest

1 24904.98 95.02 291.67 386.69 291.67

2 24808.84 96.13 290.56 773.38 582.22

3 24711.59 97.25 289.44 1160.07 871.66

4 24613.2 98.39 288.3 1546.76 1159.96

5 24513.66 99.54 287.15 1933.45 1447.12

6 24412.97 100.7 285.99 2320.14 1733.11

7 24311.09 101.87 284.82 2706.83 2017.93

8 24208.03 103.06 283.63 3093.53 2301.56

9 24103.77 104.26 282.43 3480.22 2583.98

10 23998.29 105.48 281.21 3866.91 2865.19

11 23891.58 106.71 279.98 4253.6 3145.17

12 23783.62 107.96 278.74 4640.29 3423.91

13 23674.41 109.22 277.48 5026.98 3701.39

14 23563.92 110.49 276.2 5413.67 3977.59

15 23452.14 111.78 274.91 5800.36 4252.5

16 23339.06 113.08 273.61 6187.05 4526.11

17 23224.65 114.4 272.29 6573.74 4798.4

18 23108.92 115.74 270.95 6960.43 5069.35

19 22991.83 117.09 269.6 7347.12 5338.95

20 22873.38 118.45 268.24 7733.81 5607.19

21 22753.54 119.83 266.86 8120.5 5874.05

22 22632.31 121.23 265.46 8507.2 6139.51

23 22509.67 122.65 264.04 8893.89 6403.55

24 22385.59 124.08 262.61 9280.58 6666.16

25 22260.06 125.53 261.17 9667.27 6927.33

26 22133.07 126.99 259.7 10053.96 7187.03

27 22004.6 128.47 258.22 10440.65 7445.25

28 21874.63 129.97 256.72 10827.34 7701.97

29 21743.14 131.49 255.2 11214.03 7957.17

30 21610.12 133.02 253.67 11600.72 8210.84

31 21475.55 134.57 252.12 11987.41 8462.96

32 21339.41 136.14 250.55 12374.1 8713.51

33 21201.68 137.73 248.96 12760.79 8962.47

34 21062.34 139.34 247.35 13147.48 9209.82

35 20921.38 140.96 245.73 13534.17 9455.55

36 20778.77 142.61 244.08 13920.86 9699.63

37 20634.5 144.27 242.42 14307.56 9942.05

38 20488.54 145.95 240.74 14694.25 10182.79

39 20340.88 147.66 239.03 15080.94 10421.82

40 20191.5 149.38 237.31 15467.63 10659.13

41 20040.38 151.12 235.57 15854.32 10894.7

42 19887.49 152.89 233.8 16241.01 11128.5

43 19732.82 154.67 232.02 16627.7 11360.52

44 19576.35 156.47 230.22 17014.39 11590.74

45 19418.05 158.3 228.39 17401.08 11819.13

46 19257.9 160.15 226.54 17787.77 12045.67

47 19095.89 162.02 224.68 18174.46 12270.35

48 18931.98 163.91 222.79 18561.15 12493.13

49 18766.16 165.82 220.87 18947.84 12714.01

50 18598.41 167.75 218.94 19334.53 12932.95

51 18428.7 169.71 216.98 19721.22 13149.93

52 18257.01 171.69 215 20107.92 13364.93

53 18083.32 173.69 213 20494.61 13577.93

54 17907.6 175.72 210.97 20881.3 13788.9

55 17729.83 177.77 208.92 21267.99 13997.82

56 17549.99 179.84 206.85 21654.68 14204.67

57 17368.05 181.94 204.75 22041.37 14409.42

58 17183.99 184.06 202.63 22428.06 14612.05

59 16997.78 186.21 200.48 22814.75 14812.53

60 16809.39 188.38 198.31 23201.44 15010.83

61 16618.81 190.58 196.11 23588.13 15206.94

62 16426.01 192.8 193.89 23974.82 15400.83

63 16230.95 195.05 191.64 24361.51 15592.47

64 16033.62 197.33 189.36 24748.2 15781.83

65 15833.99 199.63 187.06 25134.89 15968.89

66 15632.03 201.96 184.73 25521.59 16153.62

67 15427.71 204.32 182.37 25908.28 16335.99

68 15221.01 206.7 179.99 26294.97 16515.98

69 15011.9 209.11 177.58 26681.66 16693.56

70 14800.35 211.55 175.14 27068.35 16868.7

71 14586.33 214.02 172.67 27455.04 17041.37

72 14369.81 216.52 170.17 27841.73 17211.54

73 14150.77 219.04 167.65 28228.42 17379.19

74 13929.17 221.6 165.09 28615.11 17544.28

75 13704.99 224.18 162.51 29001.8 17706.79

76 13478.19 226.8 159.89 29388.49 17866.68

77 13248.74 229.45 157.25 29775.18 18023.93

78 13016.62 232.12 154.57 30161.87 18178.49

79 12781.79 234.83 151.86 30548.56 18330.36

80 12544.22 237.57 149.12 30935.25 18479.48

81 12303.88 240.34 146.35 31321.95 18625.83

82 12060.73 243.15 143.55 31708.64 18769.37

83 11814.75 245.98 140.71 32095.33 18910.08

84 11565.9 248.85 137.84 32482.02 19047.92

85 11314.15 251.76 134.94 32868.71 19182.85

86 11059.45 254.69 132 33255.4 19314.85

87 10801.79 257.66 129.03 33642.09 19443.88

88 10541.12 260.67 126.02 34028.78 19569.9

89 10277.41 263.71 122.98 34415.47 19692.88

90 10010.62 266.79 119.9 34802.16 19812.78

91 9740.72 269.9 116.79 35188.85 19929.57

92 9467.67 273.05 113.64 35575.54 20043.22

93 9191.44 276.23 110.46 35962.23 20153.67

94 8911.98 279.46 107.23 36348.92 20260.9

95 8629.26 282.72 103.97 36735.61 20364.88

96 8343.25 286.02 100.67 37122.31 20465.55

97 8053.89 289.35 97.34 37509 20562.89

98 7761.17 292.73 93.96 37895.69 20656.85

99 7465.02 296.14 90.55 38282.38 20747.4

100 7165.42 299.6 87.09 38669.07 20834.49

101 6862.33 303.09 83.6 39055.76 20918.09

102 6555.7 306.63 80.06 39442.45 20998.15

103 6245.49 310.21 76.48 39829.14 21074.63

104 5931.66 313.83 72.86 40215.83 21147.5

105 5614.18 317.49 69.2 40602.52 21216.7

106 5292.98 321.19 65.5 40989.21 21282.2

107 4968.05 324.94 61.75 41375.9 21343.95

108 4639.32 328.73 57.96 41762.59 21401.91

109 4306.75 332.57 54.13 42149.28 21456.03

110 3970.3 336.45 50.25 42535.98 21506.28

111 3629.93 340.37 46.32 42922.67 21552.6

112 3285.59 344.34 42.35 43309.36 21594.95

113 2937.23 348.36 38.33 43696.05 21633.28

114 2584.81 352.42 34.27 44082.74 21667.55

115 2228.28 356.53 30.16 44469.43 21697.71

116 1867.58 360.69 26 44856.12 21723.7

117 1502.68 364.9 21.79 45242.81 21745.49

118 1133.52 369.16 17.53 45629.5 21763.02

119 760.05 373.47 13.22 46016.19 21776.25

120 382.23 377.82 8.87 46402.88 21785.11

121 0 382.23 4.46 46789.57 21789.57

 

 

However, as they have implied through my statement that I actually had 'total amount of credit' provided as £27985, this would be the schedule of repayments to repay the loan in full at the end of 121 months at 14%

 

 

Monthly Payment = 432.86

Month Balance Principal Interest Payment Total Interest

1 27878.63 106.37 326.49 432.86 326.49

2 27771.02 107.61 325.25 865.72 651.74

3 27662.15 108.87 324 1298.58 975.74

4 27552.02 110.14 322.73 1731.45 1298.46

5 27440.6 111.42 321.44 2164.31 1619.9

6 27327.87 112.72 320.14 2597.17 1940.04

7 27213.84 114.04 318.83 3030.03 2258.87

8 27098.47 115.37 317.49 3462.89 2576.36

9 26981.76 116.71 316.15 3895.75 2892.51

10 26863.68 118.07 314.79 4328.62 3207.3

11 26744.23 119.45 313.41 4761.48 3520.71

12 26623.39 120.85 312.02 5194.34 3832.72

13 26501.13 122.26 310.61 5627.2 4143.33

14 26377.45 123.68 309.18 6060.06 4452.51

15 26252.32 125.12 307.74 6492.92 4760.25

16 26125.74 126.58 306.28 6925.78 5066.52

17 25997.68 128.06 304.8 7358.65 5371.33

18 25868.12 129.56 303.31 7791.51 5674.63

19 25737.06 131.07 301.79 8224.37 5976.43

20 25604.46 132.6 300.27 8657.23 6276.69

21 25470.32 134.14 298.72 9090.09 6575.41

22 25334.61 135.71 297.15 9522.95 6872.56

23 25197.32 137.29 295.57 9955.82 7168.13

24 25058.43 138.89 293.97 10388.68 7462.1

25 24917.91 140.51 292.35 10821.54 7754.45

26 24775.76 142.15 290.71 11254.4 8045.16

27 24631.95 143.81 289.05 11687.26 8334.21

28 24486.46 145.49 287.37 12120.12 8621.58

29 24339.27 147.19 285.68 12552.98 8907.26

30 24190.37 148.9 283.96 12985.85 9191.22

31 24039.73 150.64 282.22 13418.71 9473.44

32 23887.33 152.4 280.46 13851.57 9753.9

33 23733.16 154.18 278.69 14284.43 10032.59

34 23577.18 155.97 276.89 14717.29 10309.47

35 23419.39 157.79 275.07 15150.15 10584.54

36 23259.75 159.64 273.23 15583.02 10857.77

37 23098.25 161.5 271.36 16015.88 11129.13

38 22934.87 163.38 269.48 16448.74 11398.61

39 22769.58 165.29 267.57 16881.6 11666.18

40 22602.37 167.22 265.65 17314.46 11931.83

41 22433.2 169.17 263.69 17747.32 12195.52

42 22262.06 171.14 261.72 18180.19 12457.24

43 22088.92 173.14 259.72 18613.05 12716.97

44 21913.76 175.16 257.7 19045.91 12974.67

45 21736.56 177.2 255.66 19478.77 13230.33

46 21557.3 179.27 253.59 19911.63 13483.93

47 21375.94 181.36 251.5 20344.49 13735.43

48 21192.46 183.48 249.39 20777.35 13984.81

49 21006.84 185.62 247.25 21210.22 14232.06

50 20819.06 187.78 245.08 21643.08 14477.14

51 20629.09 189.97 242.89 22075.94 14720.03

52 20436.9 192.19 240.67 22508.8 14960.7

53 20242.47 194.43 238.43 22941.66 15199.13

54 20045.77 196.7 236.16 23374.52 15435.29

55 19846.78 198.99 233.87 23807.39 15669.16

56 19645.46 201.32 231.55 24240.25 15900.71

57 19441.8 203.66 229.2 24673.11 16129.9

58 19235.76 206.04 226.82 25105.97 16356.73

59 19027.31 208.44 224.42 25538.83 16581.14

60 18816.43 210.88 221.99 25971.69 16803.13

61 18603.1 213.34 219.53 26404.55 17022.65

62 18387.27 215.83 217.04 26837.42 17239.69

63 18168.93 218.34 214.52 27270.28 17454.21

64 17948.04 220.89 211.97 27703.14 17666.18

65 17724.57 223.47 209.39 28136 17875.57

66 17498.5 226.07 206.79 28568.86 18082.36

67 17269.78 228.71 204.15 29001.72 18286.51

68 17038.4 231.38 201.48 29434.59 18487.99

69 16804.32 234.08 198.78 29867.45 18686.77

70 16567.51 236.81 196.05 30300.31 18882.82

71 16327.94 239.57 193.29 30733.17 19076.11

72 16085.57 242.37 190.49 31166.03 19266.6

73 15840.37 245.2 187.66 31598.89 19454.27

74 15592.31 248.06 184.8 32031.75 19639.07

75 15341.36 250.95 181.91 32464.62 19820.98

76 15087.48 253.88 178.98 32897.48 19999.96

77 14830.64 256.84 176.02 33330.34 20175.98

78 14570.81 259.84 173.02 33763.2 20349.01

79 14307.94 262.87 169.99 34196.06 20519

80 14042 265.94 166.93 34628.92 20685.93

81 13772.96 269.04 163.82 35061.79 20849.75

82 13500.79 272.18 160.68 35494.65 21010.43

83 13225.43 275.35 157.51 35927.51 21167.94

84 12946.87 278.56 154.3 36360.37 21322.24

85 12665.05 281.81 151.05 36793.23 21473.29

86 12379.95 285.1 147.76 37226.09 21621.05

87 12091.52 288.43 144.43 37658.95 21765.48

88 11799.73 291.79 141.07 38091.82 21906.55

89 11504.53 295.2 137.66 38524.68 22044.21

90 11205.89 298.64 134.22 38957.54 22178.43

91 10903.76 302.13 130.74 39390.4 22309.16

92 10598.11 305.65 127.21 39823.26 22436.38

93 10288.9 309.22 123.64 40256.12 22560.02

94 9976.07 312.82 120.04 40688.99 22680.06

95 9659.6 316.47 116.39 41121.85 22796.44

96 9339.43 320.17 112.7 41554.71 22909.14

97 9015.53 323.9 108.96 41987.57 23018.1

98 8687.85 327.68 105.18 42420.43 23123.28

99 8356.35 331.5 101.36 42853.29 23224.64

100 8020.97 335.37 97.49 43286.16 23322.13

101 7681.69 339.28 93.58 43719.02 23415.71

102 7338.45 343.24 89.62 44151.88 23505.33

103 6991.2 347.25 85.62 44584.74 23590.94

104 6639.91 351.3 81.56 45017.6 23672.51

105 6284.51 355.4 77.47 45450.46 23749.97

106 5924.97 359.54 73.32 45883.32 23823.29

107 5561.23 363.74 69.12 46316.19 23892.42

108 5193.25 367.98 64.88 46749.05 23957.3

109 4820.98 372.27 60.59 47181.91 24017.89

110 4444.36 376.62 56.24 47614.77 24074.13

111 4063.35 381.01 51.85 48047.63 24125.98

112 3677.89 385.46 47.41 48480.49 24173.39

113 3287.94 389.95 42.91 48913.36 24216.3

114 2893.44 394.5 38.36 49346.22 24254.65

115 2494.33 399.1 33.76 49779.08 24288.41

116 2090.57 403.76 29.1 50211.94 24317.51

117 1682.1 408.47 24.39 50644.8 24341.9

118 1268.86 413.24 19.62 51077.66 24361.53

119 850.81 418.06 14.8 51510.52 24376.33

120 427.87 422.94 9.93 51943.39 24386.26

121 0 427.87 4.99 52376.25 24391.25

 

 

Clealry this agrement is WRONG!!!

 

can anyone put me straight, or advise how I put this to a Judge.

 

Many thanks,

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bump!, anyone?

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Just to add further,

 

I attach a pdf file of my loan agreement repayment schedule based upon:

 

£25000, at 14% at £419.47 per month (ALL AS PER AGREEMENT)

 

However, clealry, at this rate, at this repayment I would actually have repaid all of this in full at month 103.

 

Have a look at the attached, and see if you agree or am I THICK!!!

 

THIS AGREEMENT MUST BE ROLLOCKS!!

 

:)

Loan Interest Calculator - Welcome 25000.pdf

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Emm my statement doesnt match is just the same they don't match, if we can work this out I think it's the key.

Also if we pay interest on PPI and MIF and is not set out separate, doesn't this make it a multiple agreement?


As always please check and double check what myself and other Caggers inform.

 

If you like my Post please dont be shy give my Scales a little tickle :-)

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Hi emanevs hopefully postggj could pop in and have a look at this and give you some advice.

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Emm my statement doesnt match is just the same they don't match, if we can work this out I think it's the key.

Also if we pay interest on PPI and MIF and is not set out separate, doesn't this make it a multiple agreement?


As always please check and double check what myself and other Caggers inform.

 

If you like my Post please dont be shy give my Scales a little tickle :-)

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I suppose if I gave this calculation to the Judge, then he would say to the **** "proove emanevs calculations are wrong"????

 

If my figures are CORRECT, then without a doubt we must:

 

1) present the court with a situation where there is a very clear misstatement or absence of a prescribed term, in which case the court has no discretion and MUST declare an agreement to be unenforceable.

 

schedule 6 and schedule 7, and also the Wilson Case.

 

it is Schedule 6 that sets out the Prescribed Terms for the purposes of s61(1)(a) – the heading makes this very plain. An omission or misstatement of a Prescribed Term set out in this Schedule 6 will render an agreement automatically unenforceable. This was the position in Wilson where ‘the amount of the credit’ was incorrectly stated.

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Anyone?

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I am on the same lines with a loan my son has with these characters. For Fixed Sum Credit If you reference Schedule 1 (s9 Total charge for credit rate of interest etc) of The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 It may help. As i see it the Interest HAS to be shown as per annum otherwise as a prescribed term it does not comply with Schedule 6 and therefor unenforceable.

Thoughts anyone

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i agree, but does it say variable and can they be allowed to 'vary' an agreement in this way.

 

There is no way I can pay off my agreement in the way in which they have stated on the loan agreement without 'mis stating' a prescribed term

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It does say variable but my contention is regardless of that the charge for credit should match the interest rate stated at the outset. In my sons case the Interest rate stated as per annum leaves a shortfall of a sum outstanding at the end of the supposed term of over £3K

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but being variable interest rate, they can reduce the rate at the end to ensure that there is no shortfall?

 

what are your figures?

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I think we all know we have been done over by these lot,

 

BUT,

 

How can we get these agreements declared UNENFORCEABLE by a Judge, whereby the Court has no discretion because they are:

 

1) Actually mis stating the 'Amount of Credit' on the loan agreement box.

2) Actually changing the 'interest rate' to suit themselves on the statements being provided annually.

3) Ignoring the agreement interest rate from day one.

4) Mis stating the whole loan agreement from day one.

 

Surely, its an unfair relationship under the meaning of the CCA?

 

HELP, HELP, HELP!!!!

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Hi emanevs I can understand your anxiety but is the weekend and maybe many knowledgeable caggers are not around so please don't despair. I am sure that someone will be along soon, just be patient.

 

The unfair relationship can be used but if there are prescribed terms which are missing or if the sums are not correct then IMO you would have a chance of unforceability of your agreement.

 

Blemain Finance Ltd gave the OFT an undertaking not to use the rule 78 to calculate early settlement as it was regarded as unfair

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/other/undertaking_blemain.pdf

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emanevs, your figures add up on the agreement when the annual interest rate is changed to 13.2% ... it would be easy to show this to a judge. One spreadsheet with the interest rate at 14%, one spreadsheet with 13.2%

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your agreement emanves is for 121 which is an unusual figure........did you have a payment holiday or is this what you requested?

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emanevs, your figures add up on the agreement when the annual interest rate is changed to 13.2% ... it would be easy to show this to a judge. One spreadsheet with the interest rate at 14%, one spreadsheet with 13.2%
IS THIS A BREACH OF A PRESCRIBED TERM??? AND WHAT IF THEY SAID IT WAS VARIABLE????

 

Also, my loan is for 121 months.

 

£27985 at 121 months at 14% at 419.47 per month would mean that I would not pay this loan off until month 129/130,

 

paying the above at 13.20% at 419.47 per month would mean that this loan would be paid off in month 121.

 

What can I do???

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Hi emanevs I can understand your anxiety but is the weekend and maybe many knowledgeable caggers are not around so please don't despair. I am sure that someone will be along soon, just be patient.

 

The unfair relationship can be used but if there are prescribed terms which are missing or if the sums are not correct then IMO you would have a chance of unforceability of your agreement.

 

Blemain Finance Ltd gave the OFT an undertaking not to use the rule 78 to calculate early settlement as it was regarded as unfair

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/other/undertaking_blemain.pdf

I think the problem is nobody really knows, there is a few on here who are more then willing to advise you, I'll do you a letter,unenforceable, I've done this but then when the stuff hits the fan they disappear leaving you in a worst position.


As always please check and double check what myself and other Caggers inform.

 

If you like my Post please dont be shy give my Scales a little tickle :-)

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I might be missing something but

The Consumer Credit (Agreements Regulations 1983

The Consumer Credit (Agreements)(Amendments) Regulations 2004

Schedule 1

Total charge for Credit

Rate of Interest etc

[Agreements for fixed sum (2The rate of interest on the credit

credit except agreements-- to be provided on the agreement

(a) which do not specify either or, where more than one such rate

the intervals between applies,all the rates in all

repayments or the amounts of cases quoted on a per annum

repayments or both the basis with details of when each

intervals and amounts rate applies

 

I would question how if the intervals and amounts are specified how can it be varied?

Edited by dw1552

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I hope nobody takes offence, but since postggi suggested my agreement was rubbish, along with another few caggers as well I havent heard from them.

 

I am now in court with the ****, yet it seems everyone is jumping ship!!

 

As for the fos, well enough said - waste of time.

 

I am beginning to wonder whether these people left the **** in a bad way, and to stir it all up are telling people different things to stop paying them; all with no substance.

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Thanks for your help DW1552:

 

Schedule 1 does NOT set out Prescribed Terms for the purposes of s61(1)(a) and so an omission of any provision in Schedule 1 will NOT render the agreement automatically unenforceable.

 

Any other suggestions?

many thanks,

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I would argue Schedule 1 states how the interest has to be represented on any agreement and Schedule 6 states it has to be correct and not misrepresented. It would then follow for me that if the amount of interest stated on the agreement did not match the rate stated it does not matter wether it is variable. Essentially the start point of the agreement is misleading and inncorrect.

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