How on earth do Welcome calculate their interest

[BEBOBEBO]

its in the photobucket album

[emanevs]

nop - your loan agreement?

[dx100uk]

scan your agreement

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc but leave all figures and dates.

goto one one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

browse to your pdf file and upload it

hit close this windows at the bottom below upload it box

 

dx

[emanevs]

mine or bebo?

 

mines already uploaded in this thread

[steven4064]

I still dont agree with steven or bb - sorry people!

That's your choice.

Here is the response that welcome supplied the FOS, This explains in black and white what Ive already told you. at the end of the day its down to you which route you take your case. I would however advise you to look at the letter I recieved this is the facts on how welcome work agreements out also make you fully understand what myself and Steven are telling you. I think failing this an Accountant will be able to explain how you agreement is worked out.

I will again say how frustrated I was when I recieved this letter because I honestly believe it isnt clear enough for a lay person to understand and it has took me a while to grasp. I wish you the best of luck with your case.

 

http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab266/rottweilermick/Final%20Responses/Interestcalculations.jpg

FOS spell out there exactly what you and I have been saying.

 

Sorry emanevs - it is BB, me and the FOS you don't agree with.

 

I am unsubscribing from this thread.

[emanevs]

"interest will be calculated at the rate of interest (shown as 14%), on the daily balance outstanding of the total amount of credit (shown as £25000), and the acceptance fee of £235. It will be paid as part of your monthly payments". - WHAT ABOUT THE MIF, U CANNOT INCLUDE THIS I IN THE LOAN CALCULATIONS BECAUSE IT DOESNT STATE SO, therefore the calcs have to exclude the mortgage indemnity fee????

[happyhamr]

hellow emaneves:-)

 

With regard to hybrid77 schedule of payments 1-121:confused:

 

how would any lay(ordinary person) know what is a (AMORTISATION:eek: table is:rolleyes:)----- "come on". just something else to mislead public, only elite few know it work (bankers etc,etc:rolleyes: not me/ public "thats for sure"

 

anyway emaneves , on this "A table your balance is going down(not by much)

 

i have got a statement from start of loan with payments"(intrest)

continuously "rising"".........,at least with this A table it does come down:roll:

 

TBH it is so confusing "i think we need someone from NASA"

 

Did you get anything in your SAR relating to initial statements.

 

allways wondererd why it took so long to get a statement:rolleyes:

 

chin up emaneves:-)

[hybrid77]

Bebobebo ... I can tell you how it's NOT calculated:(

 

Still waiting for a response from a letter I sent to them when I first started this thread. I have hundreds of spreadsheets trying to get 'their' monthly figures, and none of them work. All I want to work out is my outstanding balance and how much I've overpaid.

 

Until I get to something that clearly shows how the monthly interest amounts are calculated, I'm continuing to pay. I get pretty close when I increase the initial loan amount, but it's not exact, and not convincing enough to go in front of a judge.

 

It's obviously something to do with their creative accounting. By calculating the monthly interest amounts in this way, their loan book is increased (less is being paid off the loans) and their profits are increased (more interest is being paid). If people get to the end of their loan term without ever getting into arrears, figures are adjusted so the loan is paid off as it should be. If people have got into arrears, it's practcally impossible to spot and any outstanding balances can be blamed on arrears. It also makes loan rewriting even more profitable for them

[BEBOBEBO]

Hybrid, a good hour a day I spend on this and as soon as I find out you'll be the first to know, I too believe this is creative accounting and I believe it is only a matter of time before we find the Holy Grail. Keep up the good work.

[emanevs]

thanks happhamr,

 

I am disappointed with steven4064 (SITE TEAM) unsubscribing to this thread.

 

Notwithstanding all of the fancy tables (AMORTISATION:eek:) not one of them (site team) can clearly explain to me how the figures work when clearly contained within my loan agreement it states:

 

"interest will be calculated at the rate of interest (shown as 14%), on the daily balance outstanding of the total amount of credit (shown as £25000), and the acceptance fee of £235. It will be paid as part of your monthly payments".

 

 

Clearly there is no reference to INCLUDING THE MORTGAGE INDEMNITY FEE in ANY calculations.

 

 

All of the calculations provided kindly by people on this site, should not include the mortgage indemnity fee (and give a total amount of credit as £27985, because the calculation of interest shown on the loan agreement is stated as above (shown in bold)

 

 

All calculations have to exclude the mortgage indemnity fee.

 

I kindly ask the people who are disproving my statement that the figures are wrong to re run them, EXCLUDING THE MORTGAGE INDEMNITY FEE.

[BEBOBEBO]

One of my arguements is that Welcome dont state that Interest is charged on the MIF on the agreement, But clearly they do (see my letter from the FOS) and clearly it seems perfectly legal. Im not very clued up on case law but wasnt this this mentioned in the Walker Case which was lost.

As Im not clued up on this and dont fully know the details I dont really want to get into the whole "MIF attacts interest".

[emanevs]

it doesnt matter about the interest.

 

the question is:

 

How do you pay off the £2750 mortgage indemnity fee, regardless of interest or not?

[emanevs]

can anyone that disagrees with my calculations run the following:

 

£25235 at 13.2% for 121 months.

[hybrid77]

The figures add up (including the MIF), it's the statement of how the interest is calculated that is misleading (it also says calculated daily and it's not). Also note how it says will be ... it's for future reference, not has been which you could then dispute. The MIF is clearly included as a charge for credit, so of course the figures won't add up if you exclude it.

 

You could try pushing them to remove the interest on the £2750 but notice on the left of your agreement it says 'in addition we charge interest on any interest and any other charges debited to your account' which will cover their asses.

[BEBOBEBO]

Not sure if anyone else has noticed but in the last couple of weeks alot of the online loan calculators now have a box for other charges. could be down to the Pacific case.

[hybrid77]

£25,235 over 121 months at 13.2% is £378.25

£2,750 over 121 months at 13.2% is £41.22

=£419.47

 

£25,235 over 121 months at 13.2% is £378.25

£2,750 over 121 months at 0% is £22.73

=£400.98

[emanevs]

£25,235 over 121 months at 13.2% is £378.25

£2,750 over 121 months at 13.2% is £41.22 if they said that they would charge interest on it!

=£419.47

 

£25,235 over 121 months at 13.2% is £378.25

£2,750 over 121 months at 0% is £22.73

=£400.98 NON COMPLAINCE WITH PRESCRIBED TERMS!!!

 

Under current charges:

 

"In addition, we charge interest on any interest and any other charges previously debited to your account WHICH HAVE NOT BEEN PAID and reasonable costs we incur AS A RESULT OF YOUR BREACH, including legal costs, court fees, and our costs incurred in tracing you if you change your address without telling us".

 

I dont think they have a leg to stand on with that.

 

Clearly they have already said:

"interest will be calculated at the rate of interest (shown as 14%), on the daily balance outstanding of the total amount of credit (shown as £25000), and the acceptance fee of £235. It will be paid as part of your monthly payments".

 

 

Clearly there is no reference to INCLUDING THE MORTGAGE INDEMNITY FEE in ANY calculations.

[emanevs]

Was that the HOLY GRAIL?

[BEBOBEBO]

Emm, Im sorry I cant explain it anymore then I already have done.

[emanevs]

THEY CANNOT CHARGE INTEREST ON THE MIF!!!!

 

They said they ONLY CHARGE INTEREST ON THE ACCEPTANCE FEE AND TOTAL AMOUNT OF CREDIT WHICH IS SHOWN ON THE LOAN AGREEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BEBOBEBO]

Technically you would assume so, but there is no case law to support this that Im aware of.

[emanevs]

see prescribed terms, schedule 6.

 

Schedule 6 that sets out the Prescribed Terms for the purposes of s61(1)(a) – the heading makes this very plain. An omission or misstatement of a Prescribed Term set out in this Schedule 6 will render an agreement automatically unenforceable.

 

Saying that they would not charge interest on the MIF, and then doing it is very, very naughty........

 

Also means (as per the figures above, post 166) you are mis stating the terms of the agreement.

 

Saying one thing in writing, but doing another......

 

very, very naughty.......

[BEBOBEBO]

I think its the fact that it is not mentioned. If it said "they will not charge interest on the MIF" we would be laughing, because they clearly do and openly admit it.

[emanevs]

......but we signed a credit agreement under the CCA 1974.

 

A very serious document..... and of course they clearly set out what they would charge interest on.

 

Because they ARE charging interest on the MIF, but stated on the loan agreement that

 

"interest will be calculated at the rate of interest (shown as 14%), on the daily balance outstanding of the total amount of credit (shown as £25000), and the acceptance fee of £235. It will be paid as part of your monthly payments".

 

I suppose its like us turing round and saying “we promised to pay you £419.47, but we will pay you £400.

 

Not quite; isn’t good enough.

 

Welcome – Its unenforceable......

 

Very sorry about that!

[beyondhope]

hallelujah! Bebo finally gets a straight answer!! Its very easy to think you have cracked how the agreements are calculated and that they are off but as fos also showed me this isnt always the case and a feeling of being lead down the garden path soon kicks in!

 

for arguement for people reading what exactly are the 'prescribed' and 'required' terms for newbies reading?