How on earth do Welcome calculate their interest

[emanevs]

whats the legislation to tell the Judge and the Court that this is unenforceable?

[dw1552]

As i have said I would argue it does not matter wether it is Variable the figures at the start point must be representative as required by the CCA 1974

[postggj]

You Will Need The Figures In Black And White To Refute Welcomes Figures On The Agreement

 

Thats Why I Sugest Using A Chartered Accountant As A Judge Will Accept There Findings

[postggj]

As i have said I would argue it does not matter wether it is Variable the figures at the start point must be representative as required by the CCA 1974

 

 

YOU ARE CORRECT

 

LOOK HOW THE AGREEMENT IS HEADED

 

FIXED SUM LOAN AGREEMENT

 

YOU CANY VARY THE APR

 

ITS FIXED

[emanevs]

ok,

 

how do i put all this to the court, including the legislation to back up the unenforceability?

 

or is it an unfair relationship?

 

I will get my accountant to go through the figures, but once he agrees with me what then???

[postggj]

Get The Figures Checked From Your Accountant

 

ill Handle The Witness Statement

[emanevs]

ta postggi.

 

will he need to sign an avidavid?

[postggj]

No

 

As A Chartered Accountant Are Registered, The Court Will Take There Official Report As Gospel

 

IT WILL BE DOWN TO WELCOME TO REFUTE HIS/HER FIGURES

[emanevs]

sorry to sound thick.

 

What do I ask the Chartered Accountant?

[postggj]

Just Ask Them To Run The Figures On The Agreement

 

Confirm The Apr

Total Amout Of Loan

Amount Of Interest To Be Paid

 

They Will Know What To Do

 

ask Them To Do A Full Audit On The Agreement Figures

[BEBOBEBO]

Em

 

What is your rate of interest per annum on your original agreement please. This is the one one they put in small writing. You have to work out your annual flat rate to work the interest out.

[dw1552]

They are allowed to vary the interest rate but not under the section i have quoted where the intervals and amounts of repayments are specified. (s10) of same Regulations allow variance but it still has to be quoted on a per annum basis. They operate the accounts as more akin to running account credit (credit/store cards) and the like. I am convinced that is how they operate and I would say it is absolutely not compliant with the CCA 1974

[emanevs]

ok, leave it to me.

 

I will post up once I have them,

 

Thanks all!

[postggj]

Ask Yourself

 

Its A Fixed Sum Agreement

 

All The Charges, Interest Rpayaments Are Front Loaded

 

That Is, Paid Up Front So It Works Like A MOrtage

 

For The First Three Quarters Of The Loan, All You Are Paying Off In Interest, Only Then Will The Capital Reduce

[BEBOBEBO]

Gimme 5 working your agreement out now

[BEBOBEBO]

I MAKE THE Apr At 14 % SO WHY THE 17.30 % QUOTED

 

 

I too questioned the above but my agreement didnt even state the correct annual flat rate on it. From what i can see on Ems agreement the 14% seems to be the annual flat rate and when calculating this i more or less match the figures on your agreement i am only a few pence out. The annual flat rate as WFS confirmed to me is the monthly interest rate x 12. The APR which on ems agreement is 17.30% is a compounded rate that includes the charge for credit.

 

I struggled on my agreement to work this out because my annual flat rate was different to the one that was actually used to work out the interest i was charged. I am sorry em but i cant see what your issue is. If its just thats its worked out on 14% rather than 17.30% i believe a accountant will only say its right. The APR is different to the flat rate used.

[emanevs]

I too questioned the above but my agreement didnt even state the correct annual flat rate on it. From what i can see on Ems agreement the 14% seems to be the annual flat rate (14/12 = 1.6666667 per month, which is correct) and when calculating this i more or less match the figures on your agreement i am only a few pence out. The annual flat rate as WFS confirmed to me is the monthly interest rate x 12. The APR which on ems agreement is 17.30% is a compounded rate that includes the charge for credit. (my annual interest rate is 14%)

 

I struggled on my agreement to work this out because my annual flat rate was different to the one that was actually used to work out the interest i was charged. I am sorry em but i cant see what your issue is. If its just thats its worked out on 14% rather than 17.30% i believe a accountant will only say its right. The APR is different to the flat rate used.

 

To illustrate the error with the figures see attached files.

 

27985 @ 14% @ 419.47 (see total payment) takes 130 months to pay off

27985 @ 17.30 is £490.18 per month to pay it off at 121 months

27985 @ 14% @ 432.86 per month is needed to pay it off at 121 months.

 

Sorry, but I agree with Postggi.

 

There is no way that my agreement as set out will ensure that the loan is paid off in full at 121 months.

 

Any thoughts anyone???

Loan Interest Calculator 27985 14.0 interest 419.47 month.pdf

Loan Interest Calculator 27985 17.30 interest.pdf

Loan Interest Calculator 27985.pdf

[postggj]

I Just Cant Make Welcomes Figures Balance

 

I Worked And Re-weorked The Figures

[steven4064]

here is the agreement.

 

My statement is different as per the post above.

 

it says 'total amount of credit' is 25,000 yet my annual statement says 27985.

 

the agreement says 14% interest rate, yet my annual statement says 13.20%

The agreement says the APR is 17.3%. I have checked it using the OFT DualCalc program and the stated APR is correct

If they stuck to my agreement, then this would be the repayment schedule (as far as I can work out?, perhaps I am wrong?)

Sorry, but you are wrong

Clealry this agrement is WRONG!!!

 

can anyone put me straight, or advise how I put this to a Judge

The agreement is not worng, I'm afraid. Please do not go to court on these grounds.

 

Welcome do lots of things wrong but getting their sums wrong is not one.

[BEBOBEBO]

I wish you had posted that on my thread Steven as it took me a long time to figure out the interest on my agreement. Luckily i have not gone to court.

 

13.20 is the AIR annual interest rate which is the monthly interest rate x 12 . You can work out the AIR by using the annual flat rate which in your case is 14%.

 

The examples you posted can i ask please where are they look very detailed and i havent found anything like that to use.

[postggj]

I have checked it using the OFT DualCalc program

ANY CHANCE OF A LINK STEPHEN

[steven4064]

I have checked it using the OFT DualCalc program

ANY CHANCE OF A LINK STEPHEN

Unfortunately OFT no longer offer the program on their website.

 

Fortunately, I got a copy before they dropped it - http://www.shweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/dualcalc_installer.exe

 

13.20 is the AIR annual interest rate which is the monthly interest rate x 12 . You can work out the AIR by using the annual flat rate which in your case is 14%.

In DualCalc, AIR is referred to as the Nominal Annal Rate - this is the more usual term and is what I used in the interest tutorial. However, it is not the 'real' rate of interest. The real rate is the monthly rate quoted. The APR is not really the real rate either. It does refelct the compound nature of the interest but it also includes other charges that make up the total cost of credit.

 

You (all) should note that you cannot work out the APR by hand or using a spreadsheet. It can only be calculated using a computer program. If you don't believe me, have a look at the OFT description of how to work it out - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft144.pdf

Edited July 18, 2010 by steven4064

[postggj]

Brill

 

Thanks Stephen

[BEBOBEBO]

Thanks Steven thats great.

 

Em can i ask what you have been using please that way if we using the same thing it might get us on the same page.

[emanevs]

im even more confused!!!!!!

 

what about:

 

1) My calculations?

2) Total amount of credit wrong?

3) Changes in interest rates from my loan agreement to statement

4) How do I pay all of this loan off within 121 months.

 

 

Should I still see my accountant??