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    • Okay I have just started to write a draft to put together as defence:   In The County Court   Claim No: XXXXXXX Between XXXXXXXXXXX (Claimant) -and- XXXXXXXX (Defendant) ____________ DEFENCE ____________ 1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all. 2. Based on the deficient Particulars of Claim, it is believed that the claim relates to a purported debt as the result of the issue of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) to the driver of the vehicle XXXX XXX, parked at XXX. 3. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question, at the time of the alleged issuing of the Parking Charge Notice (PCN). 4. The Particulars of Claim does not state whether they believe the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or the driver of the vehicle. These assertions indicate that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply offering a menu of choices. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5. Further, the Particulars of Claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is no mention of anything which specifies how the terms were breached. 5. It is denied that: a) A contract was formed b) There was an agreement to pay a parking charge. c) That there were Terms and Conditions prominently displayed around the site. d) That in addition to the parking charge there was an agreement to pay additional and unspecified additional sums. e)The claimant company fully complied with their obligations within the British Parking Association Code of Practice of which they were member at the time. 6. The Defendant did not enter into any ‘agreement on the charge’, no consideration or communication took place between the parties and therefore no contract was established. 7. The Defendant denies that they would have agreed to pay the original demand of £100 to agree to the alleged contract had the terms and conditions of the contract been properly displayed and accessible. 8. Due to the sparseness of the Particulars of Claim, it is unclear as to what legal basis the claim is brought, whether for breach of contract, contractual liability, or trespass. However, it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct. 9. Further and in the alternative, it is denied that the claimant’s signage set out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person reading them.       Statement of Truth: I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true. Name Signature Date     I need to add that there is no contract with the company, I am unable to confirm terms and conditions as you need to display the permit whilst using facilities on site, the car park in question is free,  the £60 fine was unlawful, the parking company have no proof of loss, they are abuse of process, I wasn't named as being the driver, I have no PCN or any of their solicitor until the claim form came through the post. 
    • scroll up to  ericsbrother post of February 10    a good start.   dx      
    • you have now said twice in posts you have been fined. that shows you haven't been reading up here on private parking claimform threads at all.   use our custom google search box that comes up after you hit our top squares logo.   type in   PCM Claimform.   theN READ as many threads as you can.   you should spot that when people file a defence  its one that has about 3 - 5 simple very basic short lines. and that is one that is applicable to the claimant and the type of parking claim in their poc they are making    you don't file early!!   you have 2 weeks to work this out   post it up here 1st please    
    • pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform. [if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] .  register as an individual  note the long gateway number given  then log in .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform .  defend all  leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time  click thru to the end  confirm and exit MCOL. . .  get a CCA Request running to the claimant https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332502-cca-request-consumer-credit-act-1974-updated-january-2015/  leave the £1PO blank and uncrossed . .  get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant] . . https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/ . . type your name ONLY no need to sign anything . you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]
    • don't forget we have a custom google search box here   https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-8889411648654839:3134625398&q=pcn disabled bay&oq=pcn disabled bay&gs_l=partner-generic.12...89905.96346.0.98117.5.5.0.0.0.0.132.411.4j1.5.0.gsnos%2Cn%3D13...0.6527j13191631j6j2...1.34.partner-generic..5.0.0.NzHqsz5KVoY
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hybrid77

How on earth do Welcome calculate their interest

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Well, they call it CAPITALISATION, but it's interest. On my statements it says calculated on the daily outstanding balance, but every which way I try, NOTHING adds up! My plan was to get their miscalculations printed out before tea, but I'm going to be sitting here all bloomin night. Does anybody have any insight into Welcome mathematics?

 

I'm arguing with them over some old arrears but they can't tell me the exact figure. From my calculations on the contractual paments and actual payments, even after their charges and additional interest, the arrears are cleared (plus some), yet I'm still being charged a 'default sum fee interest' every month and their advice is to carry on overpaying ... stuff that!

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Moved to Welcome Finance Forum


Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

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hehe

welcome [pun intended]

 

to the great world of welcome fleecers ltd.

 

i'd have a read of a few thread

that will give you most of the info you need.

 

but you are not alone!!

 

dx


..

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Thanks, I'd already tried regular amortization ... way out.

 

I'll let you know if mine is the same .... just inputting the inital figures doesn't work, but it might get me a bit closer.

 

I can get the figures to £5.50 a month out with amortization and a bit of fiddling.

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ok, mines definately not rule of 78s, my interest rate is going up by a tiny amount every month rather than down, but not by the same amount, not on any form of scale, and not by the number of days in the month.

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hallelujah!!!!!

 

My loan started on 30 nov, 1st payment on 1st jan. They've added the .5 month to the inital inital loan amount (doesn't show this though) then capitalised some of it. After 60 months regular payments, we'll still owe that half month. Nice little money earner for them, that nobody spots.

 

Now I've worked this out, where do I go with it?

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My view is this.....If they have added interest to the total amount of credit,then the same total amount of credit is wrong which makes the agreement unenforceable.It could also be argued that this xtra is a hidden charge.

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but until the end of the agreement, they could argue that the monthly interest rate will get adjusted later on to take account for it ... if there's any charges or arrears by then, it would be very difficult to argue with them and prove they've done otherwise.

 

Interest rate on the loan is supposed to be 21%, but the statement adds up to 21.3% in the first 12 months of on-time payments. I can't find any laws which say the statement has to tally with the agreement.

 

I've sent a letter asking for an explanation and I've to send my letter and their reply to trading standards and FOS.

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Can any one* help. I am a bit confused with rule 78.

 

Can Rule 78 be used when calculating the original figures as stated on the loan agreement or is it purely for calculating the repayment figures. Any supporting legislation ect most appreciated. *Why have an APR if Rule 78 calculator used?


As always please check and double check what myself and other Caggers inform.

 

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to further confuse and rip off the punter.

 

dx


..

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Apparently use of rule 78 was considered unfair since may 2005.

 

Surely, if they (the sc*m) have issued loans since that date and are being repaid under the use of rule 78, then surely the agreements are unenforceable??????

 

Anyone agree?

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bump!

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I had the same issue I thought my Total amount of credit was incorrect due to certain members on this forum not knowing how welcome work there agreements out. Welcome and the FOS informed me this is how they do it.

 

They charge interestlink3.gif to Interest bearing Loan agreements based on a monthly flat rate which is calculated on the outstanding balance.

 

(AIR)This is the monthly Interest rate x12 which gives you the annual flat which is proberly stated on your agreement somewhere.

 

The APR is a compounded rate that includes the charge for credit (Acceptance Fee, MIF) as interest.

 

If you read my thread you will see I was informed that my figures were incorrect and Challenged this with the foslink3.gif for 6 months to be told the above and my complaint wasnt upheld.

 

This was how welcome worked my agreement out, wether everybodies elses is the same I would'nt like say.


As always please check and double check what myself and other Caggers inform.

 

If you like my Post please dont be shy give my Scales a little tickle :-)

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can you give an example with figures in post 15?

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Hi Emanevs

 

OK so interest is calculated on a monthly basis in my case 1.8% which means AIR is 21.6 % this is just 1.8 x 12. The 23.9 % interest as stated on my ageement is 23.9% This is the annual rate that includes the effect of compounding, which is interest charged on interest.

 

So my agreement was

 

18591.90 loan and ppi

interest charge 29610.17

acceptance 235.00

mif 1625.45

 

total charge for credit 31470.62 and monthly payment 417.19.


As always please check and double check what myself and other Caggers inform.

 

If you like my Post please dont be shy give my Scales a little tickle :-)

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That's right, but it's my MONTHLY interest rate that's reducing each month when I look closely at the capitalisation each month. On the face of it, everything looks as it should, but by the end of the term, I'll still have an outstanding balance. The only way I get the same interest rate applied each month is if I increase the initial loan amount.

 

5476.27 94.71 148.39 1.7295%

5422.59 93.68 148.39 1.7276%

5367.88 92.73 148.39 1.7275%

5312.22 91.75 148.39 1.7271%

5255.58 90.76 148.39 1.7269%

5197.95 89.75 148.39 1.7266%

5139.31 88.73 148.39 1.7265%

5079.65 87.68 148.39 1.7261%

5018.94 86.62 148.39 1.7259%

4957.17 85.54 148.39 1.7256%

4894.32 84.44 148.39 1.7253%

4830.37 83.32 148.39 1.7250%

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I would'nt like to comment on yours Hybrid77 its took me 6 month to get welcome to admit how mine is calculated.

 

Whats your opinion emanevs ?


As always please check and double check what myself and other Caggers inform.

 

If you like my Post please dont be shy give my Scales a little tickle :-)

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I can think of a couple of things:

 

1) The use of using rule 78 is unfair - FACT.

Perhaps someone can think of what law we could use against the **** in this respect giving us a loan of which has unfair contract or term?

 

2) The way in which the loan is paid off makes a whole mockery of the interest amount stated on the loan.

 

3) If the interest rate is incorrectly stated on our loan agreements, then clearly schedule 6 (prescribed terms) will mean that a court must declare the agreement unenforceable.

 

4) Once the agreement is delcared unenforceable, then they have an invalid security of which must be removed.

 

Can anyone help with (1) case law??

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bump!!!!

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Rule of 78 only applies to the calculation of rebates if you pay off the loan early. Welcome work out actual interest in the way the BB described above. If you want to understand how this is done, have a look at my interest turorial which is linked from my signature.

 

I suspect that the interest is correctly stated on your laon, it's just you haven't understood it.

 

More to the point, did you have PPI on the loan or other insurance. We now know that Welcome pay themselves a massive commission on insurance on their loans which they dodn't tell you about. This is very very naughty indeed and renders the loan void. Without prejudice to it being void, the loan amount, charge for credit and APR are also then all wrong, which would render the loan agreement unenforceable if it wasn't void.


Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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Mortgage indemnity fee of £2750???

 

does this count, and how does it render it unenforceable?

 

many thanks,

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I'm not sure about mortgage indemnity fees - do they count as insurance? who underwrites them, that is the question.

 

With 'proper' insurance, like PPI for example, Welcome act as insurance broker. As such they are allowed to pay themselves a commission but only if they tell you and you agree to it. If they don't tell you, it means the commission is secret and case law views that as a type of fraud. Given then that the agreement is fraudulent, it is void. That is, the agreements is deemed not to exist.


Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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I found this. Have a look.

 

With my agreement my problem is also this:

 

I signed for a total amount of credit - £25000

the duration was 121 months

the payment was xxx

the interest rate was 14.00%

 

Yet,

 

I had my annual statment:

 

total amount of credit £27,985 (inc. MIF and acceptance fee)

a minimum duration term of 121 months

payments remained the same.

interest rate was 13.20%

 

SURELY UNENFORCEABLE?????

 

If so, How could I put this to a Judge - Politely

 

Many thanks,

Welcome MIF letter page 01.jpg

Welcome MIF letter page 02.jpg

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style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 2958 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

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