Old Debt

[alchemy9]

In March last year I requested a CCA for a loan from a DCA. Nothing was forthcoming so 2 weeks later I sent another letter to the DCA saying the account was in dispute ( both letters from your templates library).

I have since moved and now I am being chased by the DCA. The DCA called today saying they have the CCA agreement but posted to the old address, and are now post to my new address.

The questions I have are:

1. I thought there was a limit of 12 working days to produce the CCA. The DCA said this was not the case, at that point I asked if the phone call was recorded- it was..

2. Assuming there is a limit of 12 days what is the consequence for the DCA for not producing the CCA.

3. Is the DCA still able to chase the debt?

I will post up the CCA if/when it arrives.

[cerberusalert]

1. I thought there was a limit of 12 working days to produce the CCA. The DCA said this was not the case, at that point I asked if the phone call was recorded- it was..

The a/c is supposed to be put on hold until they produce it.

2. Assuming there is a limit of 12 days what is the consequence for the DCA for not producing the CCA.

Non, up until recently they committed an offence if they did not produce it within a further 30 days but that was removed from CCA 1974

3. Is the DCA still able to chase the debt?

Yes

[jed52]

They have 12 days to produce one and then you put the account in dispute. They are supposed to cease collection activity and not sell it on while it is still in dispute. But even if they produce one after that time period they can then begin to chase it again and go to court, provided that is, if it is enforcable.

jed

[jed52]

You just beat me to it Cerberusalert.

jed

[alchemy9]

Thanks for the prompt responses,

 

I have 2 letters chasing for the debt even though they have not produced a CCA.

 

 

how recently did the law change regarding your comment about the consequences for the DCA.

 

"Non, up until recently they committed an offence if they did not produce it within a further 30 days "

[cerberusalert]

As of 26th May 2008. See; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/154013-not-offence-after-12-a.html

[alchemy9]

Interesting the part about- CPUTR 2008, the DCA has tried to collect the debt while the debt is in dispute and no CCA, any suggestions what to do next?

[cerberusalert]

By trying to collect, they can ask you nicely but equally you can tell them to go forth.

 

If they get too 'pushy' you can make a complaint to Trading Standards via Consumer Direct; Consumer Direct - Contact us

[alchemy9]

Today I recieved the CCA from Mint- See attached.

 

I have a few quesions relating to this.

 

 

1. Is the CCA enforceable- the sections on the bottom right- data protection act and credit agreement are mostly unreadable. Is this an enforcable CCA?

 

2. Look at the back page of the CCA. This is suppose to be the back of the CCA agreement but looks to be from a different scan. I dont think this was scanned at the same time as the front page. The scan is much clearer. As this is a standard back page I think this is not the orginal scan. (both these scans were at 300DPI)

 

3. For the last month I have been regularly chased for this debt without a CCA agreement. Every time I have told them I have not recived the CCA.

 

 

any help will be greatly appreciated.

mint.zip

[cerberusalert]

Those T&Cs are separate to the signed agreement which does not contain all the required prescribed terms which must include credit limit, %APR and repayment terms. See; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements-guide.html

[cerberusalert]

Send them this;

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute .

 

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that xxxxxxx supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign

[alchemy9]

there were other documents that I missed off they appear to have sent the latest- credit agreement see attached.

 

 

sorry for not including previously.

 

What do you suggest now?

other docs.pdf

[cerberusalert]

Looking at the level of the default charges in that document I assume they are recent T&Cs not when you opened the a/c.

[alchemy9]

they appear to have sent the orginal CCA and also latter one. The orginal one shows no similarity to the first page scanned, where most of the writing is fuzzy, so do I also dispute the CCA as being not a true and accurate copy?

 

 

 

for the CCA request can this be a copy of agreement at the data the card agreement was made and provide a copy of the current terms of the card agreement? I find it concerning that the signed credit agreement to be unreadable in places and RBS think this is acceptable.

Edited May 20, 2010 by alchemy9