Lowell And Old Egg Card Debt

[alisindebt]

I believe that the OC (not the DCA) can produce a CCA at any time inthe futur, but the account is in dispute until they do.

 

Maybe they have no record.

 

No need to chase them, it's in your favour to keep the account in dispute.

 

if they ever go to court, it would look bad that they tooks so long to

produce the CCA. chances will be it contains faults that you can dispute.

 

Did you send the templtes yet?

[Mistermind]

In a landmark judgment a few months ago a judge in Mercantile Court ruled that creditors can pursue a debt even without establishing legal enforceability, ie. blackmarking, letters, phonecalls, possibly doorsetpping etc. In such activities credit cards and DCAs licensed by the oFT are restrained by OFT guidelines re acceptable debt collection conduct.

 

Unless another enforcement test case verdict has come out recently which I have not heard about, to legally enforce in court aiming for a CCJ, Charge Order, Attachment of Earnings etc, a creditor needs to produce a CCA IN COURT for the judge's approval.

 

If the creditor does not really intend to go to court and does not bother about producing a CCA, in practice there is not much that can be done. Another recent Test Case ruling said they can now RECONSTITUTE an agreement from their IT records, so there is not much percentage in purusing a CCA until or unless the case goes to court. Having reponded with a reconsituted agreement the creditor can finally arrive in court showing a different CCA.

 

They can prove it is legally enforceable by going to county court while debiting legal costs to you if you lose, but you cannot prove it is legally unenforceable until they summon you into court -- unless you wish to preempt a showdown which never comes by trying for a legal injunction at a cost of about £11K. It would be cheaper to dare them to take you to court if a shootout is what you wish.

 

Only a judge can rule what is enforceable, the rest is opinion.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Mistermind
for clarity

[alisindebt]

So would it be safe to assume that since they have never produced a CCA (or a reconstructed one) in 2 years, that they are unlikely to go to the county court? In which case, onestressed woman presumably does not have to do anything about the CCA, nor make any payments.

[Mistermind]

If the barker never bites and never goes to court, so long as the collection tactics are not too frantic, why worry about it. After the elapse of 6 years the creditor has no legal claims at all, and after 6 years credit black marks will be dropped by the CRA.

[onestressedwoman]

In a landmark judgment a few months ago a judge in Mercantile Court ruled that creditors can pursue a debt even without establishing legal enforceability, ie. blackmarking, letters, phonecalls, possibly doorsetpping etc. In such activities credit cards and DCAs licensed by the oFT are restrained by OFT guidelines re acceptable debt collection conduct.

 

Indeed

 

Unless another enforcement test case verdict has come out recently which I have not heard about, to legally enforce in court aiming for a CCJ, Charge Order, Attachment of Earnings etc, a creditor needs to produce a CCA IN COURT for the judge's approval.

But this needs to be creditor Yes ? Not DCA if so doesn't the file have to be transfered back to egg ?

 

If the creditor does not really intend to go to court and does not bother about producing a CCA, in practice there is not much that can be done. Another recent Test Case ruling said they can now RECONSTITUTE an agreement from their IT records, so there is not much percentage in purusing a CCA until or unless the case goes to court. Having reponded with a reconsituted agreement the creditor can finally arrive in court showing a different CCA.

? Without a signature ? If it is a different CCA then how can they enforce it when true documents are not available details may be different surely ?

 

They can prove it is legally enforceable by going to county court while debiting legal costs to you if you lose, but you cannot prove it is legally unenforceable until they summon you into court -- unless you wish to preempt a showdown which never comes by trying for a legal injunction at a cost of about £11K. It would be cheaper to dare them to take you to court if a shootout is what you wish.

 

 

Only a judge can rule what is enforceable, the rest is opinion.

 

So do I tell Rep (described in the loosest of terms) that I do not want her to have any further communication with Lowells ?

 

That way leaving it down to them to go back to egg and await eggs action if any ?

And Just to check - I am not to request copy of CCA again ?

 

OSW:confused:

 

Alisindebt - Haven't sent letters yet as preoccupied with children but in light of Misterminds notes shoulld I still send them ? I thank you for reminding/prompting me to do it I need I little shove in these matters !

Edited April 21, 2010 by onestressedwoman
Forgot Alisindebt

[Mistermind]

Solicitors are hard up now. They are paid for activity, not for doing nothing, so they would have a vested interest in their client continuing a hubbub of activity despite no outcome over two years.

 

Awful confusion arises over different uses of the word "enforce". DCAs do not send round Scarface with a violin case, so they are not using force, just persuasion, hard to see how DCAs "enforce".

 

Only a law court can enforce if it wants to. Pay up or face a CCJ, Charge Order, Attachment of Earnings, bailiffs etc. DCAs cannot enforce or attempt to enforce. Only a judge can enforce, and he does not even need a violin case.

[onestressedwoman]

Solicitor is not paid by me - so really no further communication at this point by them to DCA is required ?

 

So If matter was to go to court then action would have to be taken by OC not DCA ?

 

In essence the DCA's action is only threats therefore rep should not be entertaining this until which time OC acts.

 

I am sorry I sound a little dim - I'm going to be dreaming of Violin cases now

 

It takes extreme effort for me to understand/follow things since illness so I hope you'll bear with me

 

OSW

[Mistermind]

I'm going to be dreaming of Violin cases now

 

Don't let them open the violin cases

 

If the solicitor is not paid by you then no harm in carrying on if it makes you feel better.

 

The outcome does not depend on you, it depends on Egg who will mount the case if they do. DCAs are only cheering for their side. If Egg does not want a lawsuit then this case like numerous others has no outcome.

 

So long as Egg does not go to court, there will be no court ruling to stop them from pursuing the debt. The reality is that if Egg chooses not to pursue a legal showdown you have no means of pursuing a legal showdown. The balll is in their court, you cannot force them to return the ball.

 

Everything may change of course, if decisive Test Case verdicts come out of the courts over the next few months. No doubt Egg are keeping their gunpowder dry, waiting for the legal position to clarify.

 

Good luck. Why worry, summer is here and the volcanic ash is going away.

[onestressedwoman]

Mistermind

 

thank you, you have made me smile for the first time today !!!!!!!!!

I had visions of Mr Blobby jumping out of Violin case

 

But as always in this house it never rains but it pours !!!!!!!

 

Had letter re mortgage today have posted request for advice but I can't even find the thread so I posted it again and that one doesn't show on thread starter see what I mean - Things aren't easy in my world !!

 

What makes things worse is that I booked for us (hubby & Kids) to go on holiday for first time in 7 years only because flight was cheap and we don't pay for accomadation but now I'm kicking myself for spending money - In fact it was the mother in laws money she lent it to me as writing her cheques doesn't incur charges lol

 

Hey if you can find my thread have a look will you

 

Smiles with Blobby and Violins

 

OSW

[Mistermind]

Had letter re mortgage today have posted request for advice but I can't even find the thread so I posted it again and that one doesn't show on thread starter see what I mean - Things aren't easy in my world !!

 

 

On the blue bar near the top of the page,

 

click SEARCH

click ADVANCED SEARCH

input your own userid

select "threads started by user only"

click START SEARCH

 

You will find your two other threads.

Not sure which forum is the best for mortgage problems.

You can also search by subject keyword as in a library catalog, not by userid. If you browse around you will find other posters with questions and answers. A pool of info to save reinventing the wheel. I am not really an expert on subjects like mortgage, but others will have firsthand info.

 

As for feeling downcast because of shortage of the readies, the Irish government is borrowing £500 million every day just to keep paying government bills. The Chancellor of the Exchequer pays out £40 billion a year interest on his borrowings to keep the UK afloat.

 

Now surely you feel relieved about the smallness of your debts. :grin: :grin: :grin:

[onestressedwoman]

If only had a little of that to play with no more than i needed mind

 

I'm not greedy !

 

You have been a STAR

 

Thank you

 

 

 

[onestressedwoman]

Post moved to new thread as I found the button with a little help lol

Edited August 29, 2010 by onestressedwoman

[onestressedwoman]

Well here we are again

 

Have heard nothing from Egg since my last post in April , well not that I'm aware of as I have been stupid enough to leave this in the hands of my Rep/Advisor ha ha !

 

I recieved a letter via rep that includes from LOWELLS a copy of what is meant to be my original agreement now heres the thing ?

 

1. It has taken nearly 3 years to produce despite innumerable requests ?

2. Not at all sure its my signature and date does not appear like my numerical formation ?

3. This letter included only the front page of a letter and my puported signature no T&C's in between

4. T&C's provided I believe are a print off of current online T&C's

5. Does this stand as a true / original document ?

6. I am not aware that Egg has sold this to LOWELLS as it has been passed back and forth to several DCA's one of whom threatened me with bankrupcy order !

 

 

So where do I stand now I wonder ??

 

The way I am thinking at the moment is that this matter will have to be sent back to Egg to take any action - If so can they do this without the original T&C's ?

 

LOWELLS demanding payment forthwith

 

I know I should have taken back my file from Rep months and months ago have no idea what communication she has had with regards to my matters which doesn't leave me in good stead.

 

All my own fault I know, but in a position unfortunately where my head only works if I'm lucky, 3 times a month, think I had better ask them to copy out my whole file to me.

 

In the interim they have asked me what my instructions are in regards to this communication and the only words I have are rude ones, which obviously are inappropriate

 

Where does one go from here ? :confused:

 

OSW

[onestressedwoman]

Well here we are again

 

Have heard nothing from

Egg

since my last post in April , well not that I'm aware of as I have been stupid enough to leave this in the hands of my Rep/Advisor ha ha !

 

I recieved a letter via rep that includes from LOWELLS a copy of what is meant to be my original agreement now heres the thing ?

 

1. It has taken nearly 3 years to produce despite innumerable requests ?

2. Not at all sure its my signature

and date does not appear like my numerical formation ? Writing very small

3. This letter included only the front page of a letter and my puported signature no T&C's in between

4. T&C's provided I believe are a print off of current online T&C's

5. Does this stand as a true / original document ?

6. I am not aware that Egg has sold this to LOWELLS as it has been passed back and forth to several DCA

's one of whom threatened me with bankrupcy order !

 

 

So where do I stand now I wonder ??

 

The way I am thinking at the moment is that this matter will have to be sent back to Egg to take any action - If so can they do this without the original T&C's ?

 

LOWELLS demanding payment forthwith

 

I know I should have taken back my file from Rep months and months ago have no idea what communication she has had with regards to my matters which doesn't leave me in good stead.

 

All my own fault I know, but in a position unfortunately where my head only works if I'm lucky, 3 times a month, think I had better ask them to copy out my whole file to me.

 

In the interim they have asked me what my instructions are in regards to this communication and the only words I have are rude ones, which obviously are inappropriate

 

Where does one go from here ?

:confused:

 

OSW

[MARTIN3030]

Have moved this here and retitled.

 

 

other Egg threads merged here;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?256716-onestressed-woman-v-egg

[harrassed senior]

Is there any way you could remove identifiers and scan and post so that we can take a look and offer advice?

[harrassed senior]

You could send Lowells this:

 

Dear Sirs,

Thankyou for your template letter.

I am fully aware of the recent test case of RBS vs McGuffick, however to pre-empt any further attempt at confusion on your part I would point out that this referred to an agreement which was compliant but temporarily unavailable, therefore does not apply in my case.

Clearly you have chosen to abide by the Consumer Credit Act as minimally as is lawful, by providing a reconstituted agreement. While this may satisfy a CCA request, it is not enforceable in a court of law.

As you are threatening legal action on a debt you have yet to prove is valid, I now ask you to supply me with a signed statement as to whether you actually hold a copy of the original signed agreement. If you do not hold an agreement, then I require you to confirm this.

Certainly I can think of no valid reason why you should choose to provide a reconsituted version rather than simply photocopy the original-if it exists.

It is in both our interests to resolve this matter between us by being open and thus hopefully avoid abuse of the Court System.

I would remind you that the OFT state that creditors should not imply or state that an enforceable agreement exists if that is not the case.

Should you carry out your threat of court action, it will be vigorously defended and you will be required to produce an original, signed, compliant agreement to support your claim.

I am merely attempting to clarify the situation before this becomes necessary, so that I can make an informed decision and take legal advice if necessary.

I look forward to receiving your response within 14 days.

[onestressedwoman]

Well here you go it's taken me all day but worked out how to scan and copy them in the end.

 

I have only posted first 5 pages there are 18 in total excluding the internet print out

 

I really shouldn't scan read things as it does says lowells have purchased the debt and they informed me of this however as I don't get the communications this is the first I have heard of this

 

In tmp 5 doc it says the cash advance APR is different to what it says on Agreement ? Any advise would be graciously welcome

Edited August 29, 2010 by onestressedwoman
I'll try to get it right this time !

[onestressedwoman]

Now why are they so small ? see I still haven't got it right !

 

OSW

[dx100uk]

scan the required letter/agreement

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

browse to your pdf file and upload it

hit close this windows at the bottom below upload it box

 

dx

[onestressedwoman]

Dx

I converted them first on my system and they would not upload ? I will edit again and save as PDF to see if it will work this time but, may take me a while no where as near as compident as I used to be

 

So dates and account totals to be left in

 

Be back to you soon ha ha !

 

OSW

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

Try using 'photobucket' or 'tiny pics'.

[harrassed senior]

If you use Photobucket (open an account if you do not have one and have an album for 'online postings'.

 

Scan the documents to your computer and note where they are.

 

Open your photobucket page and simply upload the documents from wherever you placed them on your computer to the new Album you created.

 

If you then double click on the 'photo' of your document you will see various options - copy the IMG coding, then return to CAG open new post in your thread and simply 'paste' the code.

 

IMHO much better than messing around converting

[onestressedwoman]

My lord you'd think I'd never seen a computer before

 

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/Onestressedwoman/tmp1.jpg

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/Onestressedwoman/tmp2.jpg

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/Onestressedwoman/tmp3.jpg

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/Onestressedwoman/tmp4.jpg

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/Onestressedwoman/tmp5.jpg

 

Eureka think ! ! ? ?

 

Well here you go it's taken me all day but worked out how to scan and copy them in the end. With your help of course !!!!!

 

I have only posted first 5 pages there are 18 in total excluding the internet print out

 

I really shouldn't scan read things as it does says lowells have purchased the debt and they informed me of this however as I don't get the communications this is the first I have heard of this

 

In internet printed doc it says the cash advance APR is different to what it says on Agreement ? Although the typing is blurred on TMP3 it is clearly not the same

Any advise would be graciously welcome

 

and I promise to load any further doc's in good time, maybe it has taken so long because I haven't slept in nearly 48 hours.

 

OSW

[onestressedwoman]

Hey it worked !!!!!!!! :D