Parking Ticket Bailiff's Costs

[TFD123]

Can anyone offer any advice here please?

I will try to keep it Brief... Sept 09 good lady wife got parking ticket in UK midlands charged at £70.

Like lots of others unfortunetly ignored it.

Never heard anything more until 12/04/2010 when a bailiff from Bristow and Sutor called at the house with a enforcement order for £110 from Northampton TEC.

And added costs of £401 total now £511

They recieved the order to collect from TEC Northampton on 29th of Feb 2010 and said they had sent a letter and called once before hence the amount now owed. I cant prove they did not call but we have never had any commumication from them.

While here they asked my son who was outside my property (he is 24 and does not live at my address) to sign a walking possession form as they where levying my wifes car, he informing them that the car was on finance and the bailiff told him that they would remove the walking possession when they did a HPI, so my son signed.

I rang them to be told that they have lifted the levy on the car as it was on finance and reduced my bill by £6.05 but although my son does not live here and the bailiff did not gain entry to my home they state the walking possession is still valid.

They are due to return on 24/04/2010 to take goods from my home.

Is there anyway to delay this until i find a way to dispute the charges.

They claim for a van which was not here but they say it was in the area!!!

I have spoken with their CLIENT (Birmingham City Council)concerning costs charged by this company but they only refer me back to Bristow and Sutor who will not give break down of costs but will only discuss when am i going to pay.

 

Any advice here would be greatly appriciated.

Edited April 21, 2010 by TFD123
Terrible spelling

[lamma]

they have to give a full breakdown of the costs when asked. post on the bailiff forum ASAP so that tomtubby has a good chance of seeing it. ignoring all the paperwork was not good and all you may have is keeping the costs under control. Google the last three words in this sentence, bailiff advice online.

[TFD123]

Thanks for the advice, you are exactly right about ignoring the ticket and the fact that only keeping my costs under control is the way forward. I will follow the link and get on there.

again thank you

[saintly_1]

Thread moved to Bailiff forum

[RaeUK]

Hi and welcome to the bailiff forum!

This is not my area but you will get good advice in due course. If the only thing the bailiff levied was a car on HP then both the levy and the WPA are invalid. Batten down the hatches until better people than I can comment...

Best wishes

Rae

[TFD123]

Firstly Thank you for your comments.

Below is a letter my wife sent to Bristow and Sutor and thier reply.

Please can someone advise me of how to proceed further.

 

Many Thanks

Our Letter to them

Edited for posting purposes

Penalty charge number XXXXXXXXX

Car Reg XXXXXXX

 

Your Ref XXXXXX

 

A bailiff, instructed by your company, attended my property yesterday and spoke with my Son in the street regarding an unpaid parking fine of mine. Since the time I made representations about the penalty charge to the enforcing authority concerned, which was within the 28 days of the service of the Notice to Owner, I have not heard anything else until my son said someone called to my home yesterday.

Please note that my Son had no authorisation from me to sign or agree to any request made by the bailiff as my Son does not reside at my home. Your bailiff did not gain entry to my home. The Walking Possession Agreement signed by my son is therefore not valid.

Your Bailiff placed a levy on the car I drive which in fact my son had informed him that it is under a Hire Purchase order with XXXX XXXXX Finance, this is true.

I rang your office today to query the charges imposed by your company. I now request that you give me a written breakdown of these charges. Your customer services agent informed me that the charges applied yesterday (12/04/2010) were for the bailiff and a van, as the intentions of the visit was to remove goods from my property if I did not pay the requested amount, I informed your agent that the Bailiff was not in a van but in a car, her reply was that a van would have been in the area. If this charge includes for the use of a van then as the van was claimed to be in the area, how many others also got charged for this van without there actually being a van in attendance. This cannot be a charge which is justified so please can you explain. A record of the telephone conversation will be requested if required.

For a court charge of £110 issued to the enforcement officer on 28/02/2010 by the County Court to have increased to £511 by the 12/04/2010 seems to be excessive by anyone’s standards.

 

To summarise can you:-

1)Confirm that the Walking Possession Agreement is in fact invalid.

2)Confirm that the levy placed on the car Reg xxxxxx will be removed for the reasons mentioned above i.e. the vehicle is under a finance agreement and was not levied under a valid Walking Possession Agreement.

3)Provide a breakdown and justify the charges applied.

4)Explain where the van referred to by your agent was at the time your bailiff attended (if indeed these excessive charges of £53.96 and £105.75 applied yesterday were for a van)

 

And Their Reply

 

 

Dear Madam,

 

RE: Parking Penalty Charge Notice due to Birmingham City Council

 

We acknowledge receipt of your letter, the contents of which have been duly noted.

 

We note your comments in regards to making your original representations within 28 days of the Notice to Owner and would point out that the time to dispute has now elapsed. You may seek legal advice regarding a Statutory Declaration, however, this will only be accepted within a certain time frame by our client.

 

With reference to your son not being authorised to sign the paperwork, we would respectfully point out that any person over the age of 18 can sign a Walking Possession agreement for Penalty Charge Notices. Although the agreement is not in fact invalid as you state, we have performed a finance check on the vehicle and have been able to confirm what you have stated. The vehicle has therefore been removed from our enquiries and no further action would be taken against this.

 

We are requested by our client to attend the property on an Enforcement Call. This means a bailiff is instructed to attend with a view to levying distress and removing goods on the same attendance. Therefore fees which are detailed on the reverse of our paperwork, which are charged in accordance with the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993 (as amended), are legally due and payable and have been incurred correctly. We are unable to provide you with a breakdown of how these costs are calculated as they do not represent actual costs. As a company we have set Van Fees which our clients are aware of.

 

We have amended the balance accordingly, having established no action can be taken against your vehicle, however aside from £9.05 the remaining fees are due and payable. Your balance is currently £502.62 and we suggest you contact us with your offer of payment as soon as possible to avoid any additional recovery action being taken against you. We will allow until the 23/04/10 for you to make such offer.

 

We trust this clarifies the matter.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

So due tomorrow

Is there any thing legal i can do to refuse them entry.

ATM the house is sold subject to contract and most of the items in the house have been sold as part of the house sale but as it is subject to signing of contract we still own the items.

 

Again many thanks

[tomtubby]

Firstly Thank you for your comments.

Below is a letter my wife sent to Bristow and Sutor and thier reply.

Please can someone advise me of how to proceed further.

 

Many Thanks

Our Letter to them

Edited for posting purposes

Penalty charge number XXXXXXXXX

Car Reg XXXXXXX

 

Your Ref XXXXXX

 

A bailiff, instructed by your company, attended my property yesterday and spoke with my Son in the street regarding an unpaid parking fine of mine. Since the time I made representations about the penalty charge to the enforcing authority concerned, which was within the 28 days of the service of the Notice to Owner, I have not heard anything else until my son said someone called to my home yesterday.

Please note that my Son had no authorisation from me to sign or agree to any request made by the bailiff as my Son does not reside at my home. Your bailiff did not gain entry to my home. The Walking Possession Agreement signed by my son is therefore not valid.

Your Bailiff placed a levy on the car I drive which in fact my son had informed him that it is under a Hire Purchase order with XXXX XXXXX Finance, this is true.

I rang your office today to query the charges imposed by your company. I now request that you give me a written breakdown of these charges. Your customer services agent informed me that the charges applied yesterday (12/04/2010) were for the bailiff and a van, as the intentions of the visit was to remove goods from my property if I did not pay the requested amount, I informed your agent that the Bailiff was not in a van but in a car, her reply was that a van would have been in the area. If this charge includes for the use of a van then as the van was claimed to be in the area, how many others also got charged for this van without there actually being a van in attendance. This cannot be a charge which is justified so please can you explain. A record of the telephone conversation will be requested if required.

For a court charge of £110 issued to the enforcement officer on 28/02/2010 by the County Court to have increased to £511 by the 12/04/2010 seems to be excessive by anyone’s standards.

 

To summarise can you:-

1)Confirm that the Walking Possession Agreement is in fact invalid.

2)Confirm that the levy placed on the car Reg xxxxxx will be removed for the reasons mentioned above i.e. the vehicle is under a finance agreement and was not levied under a valid Walking Possession Agreement.

3)Provide a breakdown and justify the charges applied.

4)Explain where the van referred to by your agent was at the time your bailiff attended (if indeed these excessive charges of £53.96 and £105.75 applied yesterday were for a van)

 

And Their Reply

 

 

Dear Madam,

 

RE: Parking Penalty Charge Notice due to Birmingham City Council

 

We acknowledge receipt of your letter, the contents of which have been duly noted.

 

We note your comments in regards to making your original representations within 28 days of the Notice to Owner and would point out that the time to dispute has now elapsed. You may seek legal advice regarding a Statutory Declaration, however, this will only be accepted within a certain time frame by our client.

 

With reference to your son not being authorised to sign the paperwork, we would respectfully point out that any person over the age of 18 can sign a Walking Possession agreement for Penalty Charge Notices. Although the agreement is not in fact invalid as you state, we have performed a finance check on the vehicle and have been able to confirm what you have stated. The vehicle has therefore been removed from our enquiries and no further action would be taken against this.

 

We are requested by our client to attend the property on an Enforcement Call. This means a bailiff is instructed to attend with a view to levying distress and removing goods on the same attendance. Therefore fees which are detailed on the reverse of our paperwork, which are charged in accordance with the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993 (as amended), are legally due and payable and have been incurred correctly. We are unable to provide you with a breakdown of how these costs are calculated as they do not represent actual costs. As a company we have set Van Fees which our clients are aware of.

 

We have amended the balance accordingly, having established no action can be taken against your vehicle, however aside from £9.05 the remaining fees are due and payable. Your balance is currently £502.62 and we suggest you contact us with your offer of payment as soon as possible to avoid any additional recovery action being taken against you. We will allow until the 23/04/10 for you to make such offer.

 

We trust this clarifies the matter.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

So due tomorrow

Is there any thing legal i can do to refuse them entry.

ATM the house is sold subject to contract and most of the items in the house have been sold as part of the house sale but as it is subject to signing of contract we still own the items.

 

Again many thanks

 

 

If a representation had been made to the local authority and your wife had not received a Formal Rejection then she should file an Out of Time Statutory Declation. You will need to complete the PE7 and PE9 and copies of these can be obtained from the Traffic Enforcement Centre. Their telephone number is: 08457 045 007.

 

Once filed, all enforcement MUST cease and no further charges can be applied.

 

You need to also contact the local authority to establish the address where all statutory notices had been sent.

 

PS: The fees are wrong.

 

The levy upon the vehicle has been removed becuse a bailiff cannot levy distress upon a vehicle that is on HP. If the levy has been removed then all fees associated with it MUST also be removed!!

 

The Walking Possession would NOT be invalid because your son had signed it. This is permitted becuse he is over 18 years old and the statutory regulations provide that "any responsible" person can sign it.

 

HOWEVER....There is NO LEVY and therefore the WP is cancelled. That is CLEAR.

 

UNLESS you let the bailiff into your home ( and this is NOT recommended) then there is very little that he can now do.

[TFD123]

Thank you TB

I am trying to put as much info on here so sorry it seems so long.

 

I have received the PE7 and PE9 by email from the court and returned by same method.

I have phoned the local authority as to enquire where statuary notices were sent, I must do this in writing as Data Protection applies (It Seems).

Much appreciated.

This should hold them off.

 

With regards your comments on ..

Quote

“The levy upon the vehicle has been removed because a bailiff cannot levy distress upon a vehicle that is on HP. If the levy has been removed then all fees associated with it MUST also be removed!!” Excellent!!!!!!!!!!

 

I spoke on the phone with a real arrogant person at Bristow and Sutor (but managed to keep my cool)

He stated that the only part that would be removed was the levy costs on the vehicle and that as it was their intention to remove goods on that day so the Calling at the home charge and the Van (never seen a van) charge still stood.

Is the comment you make written in any legal reference?

 

Isn’t it amazing that they can have a WP signed in the street by someone who does not live at the property albeit my son.

 

What I am looking for is a defence at the door when they call, which knowing bailiffs they will, and when I refuse entry, which I will, they will call the police.

I can show them the email sent with the SE7 and SE9 which should work but id love to be able to refer to the fact that the WP is not valid due to the levy being put on a vehicle which had a finance agreement in place and the bailiff was made aware of it as they may try to force entry( thats the only way they will get in).

 

If the SE7 and SE9 are rejected who do I complain to with regards to their charges.

I asked Bristow and Sutor this and they said to speak to the local authority, I did they said I needed to speak to the bailiff, such a run around.

 

I am annoyed at the charges/ costs and would love to see them explained, is it possible to see a list of charges anywhere with regards van, letters and calls.

 

Just been on phone to B&S again they now state the following charges

09/09 £110.00 court judgement

2nd March £12.88 ......letter

13th March £40.47 ........Attending Property

24th March £53.96 plus £105.75....... Attendance/Van Charge

12th April £53.96 plus ££105.75........ Attendance/Van Charge

This still dont add up so would love to see written bailiff fees

 

More Financial Bullies

 

 

Tomtubby again thanks for your time and advice.

Edited April 22, 2010 by TFD123
Terrible grammar

[Mozz1]

Does a court judgement (presumably a CCJ) in this case affect your credit score?

[hallowitch]

Does a court judgement (presumably a CCJ) in this case affect your credit score?

 

 

no it wont affect your credit score its not a CCJ

 

24th March £53.96 plus £105.75....... Attendance/Van Charge

12th April £53.96 plus ££105.75........ Attendance/Van Charge

 

the fees above should be removed along with the levy and walking possession fee

an attendance/van fee can only be charged if they have goods to remove subject to a valid levy in your case they have not

[tomtubby]

Thank you TB

I am trying to put as much info on here so sorry it seems so long.

 

I have received the PE7 and PE9 by email from the court and returned by same method.

I have phoned the local authority as to enquire where statuary notices were sent, I must do this in writing as Data Protection applies (It Seems).

Much appreciated.

This should hold them off.

 

With regards your comments on ..

Quote

“The levy upon the vehicle has been removed because a bailiff cannot levy distress upon a vehicle that is on HP. If the levy has been removed then all fees associated with it MUST also be removed!!” Excellent!!!!!!!!!!

 

I spoke on the phone with a real arrogant person at Bristow and Sutor (but managed to keep my cool)

He stated that the only part that would be removed was the levy costs on the vehicle and that as it was their intention to remove goods on that day so the Calling at the home charge and the Van (never seen a van) charge still stood.

Is the comment you make written in any legal reference?

 

Isn’t it amazing that they can have a WP signed in the street by someone who does not live at the property albeit my son.

 

What I am looking for is a defence at the door when they call, which knowing bailiffs they will, and when I refuse entry, which I will, they will call the police.

I can show them the email sent with the SE7 and SE9 which should work but id love to be able to refer to the fact that the WP is not valid due to the levy being put on a vehicle which had a finance agreement in place and the bailiff was made aware of it as they may try to force entry( thats the only way they will get in).

 

If the SE7 and SE9 are rejected who do I complain to with regards to their charges.

I asked Bristow and Sutor this and they said to speak to the local authority, I did they said I needed to speak to the bailiff, such a run around.

 

I am annoyed at the charges/ costs and would love to see them explained, is it possible to see a list of charges anywhere with regards van, letters and calls.

 

Just been on phone to B&S again they now state the following charges

09/09 £110.00 court judgement

2nd March £12.88 ......letter

13th March £40.47 ........Attending Property

24th March £53.96 plus £105.75....... Attendance/Van Charge

12th April £53.96 plus ££105.75........ Attendance/Van Charge

This still dont add up so would love to see written bailiff fees

 

More Financial Bullies

 

 

Tomtubby again thanks for your time and advice.

 

 

The bailiff has removed the levy. Therefore NO LEVY existed and I cannot understand the reference therefore of a Walking Possession??

 

If there is ever any doubt regarding fees charged by a bailiff pursuing an unpaid PCN then it is best to refer to the Judgment in the case of Anthony Culligan v Marston Group.

 

PS; There is no Judgment against anyones credit rating when a Warrant has been issued.

 

Also, the Traffic Enforcement Centre is NOT a Court....it is an administration centre for the registration of unpaid penalty charge notices.