Audio-recording your consultations with NHS doctors

[nolegion]

Recording consultations - "An NHS View"

 

 

A patient recorded a consultation with his GP without seeking permission. The practice was concerned and raised this with Elliott House(ASP) who, in turn, asked for advice from its Head of Risk who replied, as follows:

 

"There is no current legislation concerning the recording of clinical/administrative consultationswithin primary care. Patients are ableto make such recordings and do not need to advise the clinician/member of staffthat they are doing this however, as the recording is unlikely to be done onofficial recording equipment and those being recorded not formally identified -especially if done covertly, it is highly unlikely that the recording can beused as anything more than an "aide memoir". If patients request to record a consultation or meeting then this should be encouraged and practices should aim to try and explain any areas of misunderstanding with the patient. In addition staff should not be concerned asthey do, of course, behave in a professional manner at all times".

 

 

from a September 2011 letter to Practice Managers:

 

http://www.norfolkwaveneylmc.org.uk/doc/september2011pmnewsletter.doc

 

Many, genuine,congratulations to Norfolk and Waveney Medical Committee and the NHS Anglia Support Partnership (http://www.asp.nhs.uk/AboutUs/WhoWeAre.aspx) May this example be followed round the country.

 

Diligent viewers of this thread, if such there be, will know that, in appropriate circumstances, the ‘unofficial’ and\or ‘covert’ nature of such a recording will not necessarily prevent its being used as more than an 'aide-memoire’, but that isn’t the point in my view.

 

Exactly the way to avoid ‘covert’ recording (which I think few patients and no clinicians want) is expressly to welcome recording because one has nothing to hide. That is precisely the right note to strike.

Edited September 27, 2011 by nolegion

[sophiegreece]

These concerns are not new. I've just remembered the bit from the Scottish play where

the physician and the gentlewoman are discussing Lady Macbeth's behaviour:

 

 

 

Doctor ...what, at any

13 time, have you heard her say? Gentlewoman

14 That, sir, which I will not report after her.

Doctor

15 You may to me, and 'tis most meet you

16 should.

Gentlewoman

17 Neither to you nor any one; having no witness

18 to confirm my speech.

[nolegion]

Brilliant, sophieG

 

Half close your eyelids, loosen your hair,

And dream about the great and their pride;

They have spoken against you everywhere,

But weigh this song with the great and their pride;

I made it out of a mouthful of air,

Their children's children shall say they have lied.

 

(W.B.Yeats)

[nolegion]

The debate continues in the USA, and here's a recent example, which I think shows the continuing trend towards respecting the patients' wishes. A ‘protesting’ doctor is basically given the cold shoulder:-

 

http://forums.lymphoma.com/showthread.php?t=51489

 

If you follow the link in the first post you will find this comment to the blog:

 

"I see the future where we all have the ability torecord our doctors' visits, not for legality reason with malicious intent, but in a greater effort to reform healthcare and provide a true patient centered care experience."

 

(emphasis mine)

 

And, indeed, why on earth not?

Edited October 13, 2011 by nolegion

[Sali]

The only way recordings of consultations/treatment will ever improve patient care is if the data was successfully used in a prosecution. I cannot imagine, today, that even if such evidence were produced to the CEO of the Trust, lessons would be learned and future patients protected. Hospitals are all about keeping things quiet, sweeping mistakes under the carpet...and so they are repeated.

 

And even if the prosecution were successful, what of the punishment? The GMC is inept and continues to register dangerously incompetent doctors, the CQC, despite its recent report on elderly care, (how many reports do we need before something is actually done), is weak and the NMC seems to prefer persecuting whistle-blowers and nurses who wear crosses.

 

It seems hopeless.

[nolegion]

Basically, Sali, as I think you would expect , I have to agree with you. I would in fact add that it can be just as difficult to effect changes at Primary Care level (eg a disgracefullly performing GPs surgery) as it can at eg a hospital Tust.

 

But I do think there is at least a glimmer of hope to be derived from the inevitability of many patients preserving far more evidence of how they are treated than they ever have before, courtesy of revent developments in digital technology.

 

As I post, these 3 points come to mind:

 

1. I have beeen told - though I have not myself been directly involved with the matters in hand at all - that there are some recent medical civil actions, ie, seeking damages, which have been now settled out of court, this year, where recording has been highly material to the success of the claim. If that goes on too often at aTrust then even some joke of a CEO in a shiny suit and clown shoes has, eventually, to wonder why that is continuing to happen.

 

2. High profile exposure of irrefutable, recorded, evidenceof maltreatment, as in the dreadful situation at Winterbourne View, Bristol, really does send shock waves far and wide - in a way the ‘unevidenced’complaints which preceded it had not remotely achieved.

 

Some viewers may remember that I have a sibling who succumbed to a ghastly disease of the brain last year. The ‘facility where she is resident is, like Winterbourne, privately run, though in her particluar case, state funded - and is indeed for ‘vulnerable adults.’

 

I have no reason to believe that she has suffered anything like the disrgraceful treatment handed out at Winterbourne, but even this, we believe, good and professional unit and its corporate owners went through a paroxysm of checking careplans\best interests statements\ safety reports\ conference with realtives\ whistleblower invitations etc expressly because of that exposure.

 

The idea that everything you do or say when you are in a healthcare professional role just might be being ‘taped,' is healthy, in my opinion.You should never behave towards a patient in a fashion which you wouldn’t behappy to be ‘on record.’

 

Incidentally, I know some staff members at Winterbourne were arrested . Anyone know if they have been charged or even convicted?

 

3. If, eventually, it becomes fully routine and accepted that at least in their private consultations\treatments, patients have an untrammelled (‘unpressurisable’) right to take an audio-recording for their personal and legal purposes - and we are on the way to this I think, but literally only over the last 18 moths or so - then some of the infernal arrogance and dismissive incompetence which currently emanates from some clinicians won’t need ‘correcting’ because it will never see the light of day in the first place. They simply wouldn’tdare if there was a dictaphone\mobile gently recording away, in full view, on the table.

 

Recording will scacely be able to cure all ills in the NHS. Sadly, we will go on needing the admirable Julie Baileys of this world to shake up hospitals like mid-Staffordshire. But the very fact that doctors\ hospitals have often been so hostile to the idea or recording is, I think, one indication of its power. It should have been introduced, smoothly, 10 years ago,after the Bristol Royal Infirmay infant deaths scandal and as the Public Inquiry recommended. Now we can do it anyway. So let’s.

 

(I sometimes feel like Arlo Guthrie in Alice’s Restaurant trying to get at least three people to walk into the Shrink’s Room, sing a verse with harmony and feelin’, and then walk out so it can be called a ‘Movement’.)

Edited October 18, 2011 by nolegion

[Sali]

I question why so many damaged patients or bereaved relatives have to take civil action, especially when there is a wealth of irrefutable evidence supporting their case. Some of these cases are not settled for many years. I cannot imagine how mentally and physically draining this must be.

 

What the hell is the Ombudsman doing? Certainly not fulfilling its mission statement. As I said before, the bodies that should support and defend are wholly inadequate and inept.

 

As for Winterbourne, I almost fell off my chair when I heard people had been arrested. They are still on bail as far as I know. I couldn't watch the documentary, it would have given me nightmares. However, how is it that the head of the CQC escaped discipline when her office had been warned on several occasions of the mistreatment. She probably thinks she's wiped the slate clean now by producing a report on poor elderly care in hospitals. Astoundingly, those CQC staff who witnessed the sub-standard care notified the person in charge at the hospital (eh, if they didn't know already then they are in the wrong job) and then went back to their office to write up their notes leaving those vulnerable people exposed to God knows what. Heaven help us!

 

 

I remember when my elderly relative was in hospital for a long ten months. There were many occasions when I found unexplained bruising and reports from my relative that the nurse had been rough with them. I thought then - I even suggested it in one of my many letters - that CCTV should be considered. Should the privacy of a vulnerable individual come before their safety?

 

I know I should have more trust and faith but it was all eroded long ago.

[nolegion]

(further to Sali's last post....)

 

The Health Ombudsman

 

 

I have to confess thaty when it comes to Ann Abraham (current Health Ombudsperson - though I thought she was supposed to be retiring any moment), I have an aversion which I struggle to keep within the bounds of civility. She comes across, to me, as utterly smug and self-satisfied in the context of an Office’s performance which is consistently wholly inadequate, completely ineffective. I find it difficult to understand how anyone can claim to be that ‘unaware’ of the realities of what faces patients maltreated by the NHS - unless they are just being completely, ruthlessly, cynical.

 

She has just this minute produced a (perhaps eve of departure?) ‘report’ pointing out that GPs ‘fire’ patients they don’t like, which is something they,the patients, bitterly resent She has investigated a whole 10 instances over the last year and, oh golly, the patients seem to have been right, in each one. What about the hundreds, if not thousands, of times this happens to patients each year, and nothing whatsoever is done about it -and hasn’t been, for years?

 

There is a very specific, very limited, statutorily-specified, framework for the execrcise of any ‘de-listing’ powers.It’s in the set form of of contract between GPs and their PCTs.

 

So the Department of Health says that patients should try toget their Primary Care Trusts to remedy the situation instead. And that is utterly disgraceful, as well.

 

Would the the Department of Health like to provide, say, 6 instances of a Primary Care Trust insisting that a GPs practice reverses a decison to strike a patient of its list? Would they like to produce ONE such example?These matters can only only be 'investigated' by the useless Ombudsperson in the first place because patients have already complained to the PCTs, and nothing has been done about it - or ever has been.

 

(And I’m not overlooking the fact that if the government has its way PCTs will soon cease to exist in any event. So we will then ask ask a set of ‘Commissioning GPs’ to reverse to a decison of a GPs practice within its ‘commissioning group’ to get rid of a patient, will we? Apparently,yes. There is nothing else in the current Bill).

 

No doubt Ann Abraham will get a peerage or some such for.not ‘rocking the boat’ at all throughout her several years in office, and of course a very handsome civil service pension*.

 

The CQC (and Winterbourne)

 

(* For another post. Gotta watch my blood pressure*)…..

 

-----------------

 

 

 

As regards the GPs report, it looks like it may be another day or two before Abraham publishes on her website.

 

Meanwhile, see eg:-

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2050225/NHS-complaints-GPs-ban-patients-following-trivial-disagreements.html

 

* “…generally understood to mean pay given to a state hireling for treason to his country.” (Samuel Johnson’s Dictionary)

Edited October 18, 2011 by nolegion

[nolegion]

A bit more on the Health Ombudsman’s Office

 

The data about the grotesque attitude of some GPs towards their patients which the media was tosssing about yesterday were included in a 12 month report about complaints handling by the NHS generally, now available at the Heath Ombudsperson’s website (and which if you have a lot of time in which to make yourself really angry you can now access in full here

http://www.ombudsman.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/12287/Listening-and-Learning-print.pdf at least for the meanwhile.)

 

I wouldn’t bother. In a nutshell it confirms a continuing rise (over 4%) in the number of complaints about NHS behaviour eventually reaching the Ombudmans Office - while the number of complaints actually investigated by the Ombudsman remains magnificently steady: at less than 3% of the total number of complaints received

 

 

 

"…the reformed NHS complaint

 

handling system is providing a

 

robust framework for resolving

patients’ complaints more

 

quickly, simply and effectively

 

than before. The system is sound

 

and demonstrating its potential

 

and only needs time and effective

 

operation by the NHS to prove

 

its worth."

 

 

 

Ann Abraham. October 2011...

 

 

 

 

 

...who indeed confirms her imminent retirement after 9 years in office.

 

In terms of effecting any real change wahtsoever in the overall behaviour of any part of the NHS, this office is and always has been worse than a waste of space. It provides the illusion that something might actually be done. Nothing has been done, nothing is being done and there is nothing whatsoever in the governments plans that suggests it ever will be.

Edited October 19, 2011 by nolegion

[nolegion]

 

I remember when my elderly relative was in hospital for a long ten months. There were many occasions when I found unexplained bruising and reports from my relative that the nurse had been rough with them. I thought then - I even suggested it in one of my many letters - that CCTV should be considered. Should the privacy of a vulnerable individual come before their safety?

 

I know I should have more trust and faith but it was all eroded long ago.

 

I have an elderly relative who had a stint in hospital for several weeks last year - she would have been out a lot earlier but the hospital gave her a nice little bug just to help matters along.

 

She fared considerably better than SaI’s did by the sound of it, alas, but she was appalled at how she was treated and there were certainly aspects of her care, and that of others on her ward we could note, which I, and those frequently visiting in addition, indeed found very worrying.

 

I going to see her tomorrow and intend to ask: would she have preferred not to have her privacy\dignity “invaded” by CCTV, or a record of how she was actually treated;and I’m going to assume for the puproses of the exercise that ‘footage’ would include a soundtrack.

 

I’m, pretty sure I know what she will say - she asked to borrow a sound recorder from me at one stage during her stay, but with the vison and dexterity problems that can come with very advanced years, she had no hope of operating the fiddly little thing; whatever her reaction is I will faithfully report it here for what it may be worth.

 

Sali, if I may say so, I think that you are very far from alone in having any notion of trust\faith in the NHS very seriously ‘eroded’. Useful word I intend to deploy myself now, thank you.

Edited October 20, 2011 by nolegion

[Sali]

I think Ann Abraham lost touch with reality long ago. I would say good riddance to her slipshod heels, (whilst gnashing my teeth that she'll get a whopping pension) but she'll only be replaced by another institutionalised zombie who gets repetitive strain injury from regularly patting themselves on the back.

 

What is so appalling is that Trusts are not legally obliged to provide the number of complaints they have received from the public to the NHS. Even then can we trust the Trusts to provide accurate data?

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/aug/25/foundation-trust-hospitals-complainst-data

 

This astonished me as much as when I found out that the Trusts were mostly self-assessing.

What a recipe for disaster. How can a patient ever make an informed choice?

 

I have believed for some time now that we need a completely independent complaints system, entirely separate from the hospital/GP which can react in a timely manner. Get rid of that chocolate teapot that calls itself PALS.

 

What I found so difficult was that once I had complained to the hospital (again and again on the exact same issues) whilst my relative was a patient, there was nowhere else to go. I used to go to my car and sob (I didn't want them to see my weakness) because I felt so helpless. I telephoned the CQC at the time but was told they did not take complaints from members of the public. The only other place to go was the Ombudsman...and that takes 6 months plus before they even decide to investigate. If you are seeking justice you'd be better off with a dolly and a bumper pack of pins than go to the Ombudsman.

 

I have a new mission statement for them. I have stolen it from the great author Dickens who used it to refer to chancery, but it fits the bill for PHSO.

 

'We give to the monied might the means of abundantly wearying out the right which so exhausts finances, patience, courage, hope; so overthrows the brain and breaks the heart.

 

Suffer any wrong that can be done to you, rather than come here!'

 

In all my dealings with the every aspect of the NHS and its supporting services I oftentimes felt as though I'd tripped and fallen down a rabbit hole into an hallucinogenic world where absolutely nothing made any sense.

 

The NHS taught me how to hate.

[nolegion]

There clearly and cogently speaks the voice of extensive, informed and bitter experience.

 

It sounds like an utterly dire case to me, from start to finish, Sali. Many commiserations

 

Excellent comparison with Dickensian Chancery. An NHS complainant’s outlook today is indeed that bleak. And I’m so glad someone expressly shares my contempt for 'PALS'.

 

Of religious persuasion or otherwise, everyone can take on board the magnificent Dickens' outrage at the systematic maltreatment of the vulnerable (as in eg. the Staffordshire-type experience, which I believe is current and widespread). Also from Bleak House (after the death of a child through poverty and neglect):

 

“ Dead, your Majesty. Dead, my lords and gentlemen. Dead, right reverends and wrong reverends of every order. Dead, men and women, born with heavenly compassion in your hearts. And dying thus around us every day.”

Edited October 22, 2011 by nolegion

[nolegion]

As regards hospital care:-

 

I asked my elderly relative who had several very unpleasant weeks in hospital last year what she thought about the idea of there being CCTVin wards: safety v privacy\dignity.

 

I got her on one of her more feisty days: “WHAT ^&$4^!! -ing privacy or dignity!?- you don’t get any!” was her first response. After that she unhesitatingly and vigorously affirmed that she would much rather have had a complete record of her treatment both with the idea of preventing some of the rude, callous, off-hand treatment she did encounter and of complaining about any that remained.

 

So, on the the basis of this scientifically conducted survey of one old lady, I declare the motion to introduce CCTV in hospitals carried. But I strongly suspect many, and perhaps most, of the elderly admitted to hospital (and who actually survive the expererience, of course) would agree.

 

As regards GPs:-

 

In my usual fashion I have now caught up late with a documentary which was no doubt stale water-cooler news weeks ago, namely the channel 4 Disptches documentary: ‘Can you trust your doctor?’, first broadcast on 3rd Oct last:-

 

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od#3236726

 

I think it is excellent. It includes this statement from one pleasant and competent doctor:-

 

‘I despair of the NHS complaints procedure…I can’t understand that inall the years ... the NHS has beeen created we still haven’t got a complaints system which actually addresses the needs of the patient.’

 

and of course , like Winterbourne, it shows the enormous potency of recorded evidence.

[nolegion]

Drats.

Edited October 29, 2011 by nolegion
I posted in wrong thread

[andypears]

Hello everyone,

 

I too have been recording my GP consultations with a camcorder over the past year or so. And I have just been de-registered for the 3rd time since 2008 and placed on the GP tacking violence service again.

This is all for daring to complain about my doctors refusing to refer me for various blood test/treatments etc. I am in the process of bringing legal action against my local PCT which is north Somerset.

 

I recently discovered, by gaining copies of my medical records, that several doctors had been conspiring to cover up the fact they knew I suffered from aspergers 2 years before I had a private diagnosis. They have deliberately mis diagnosed my condition because of the financial implications according to a whistleblower who is a manager of a doctor’s surgery that I used to use.

He told me that they had been told that I can’t have aspergers because North Somerset PCT does not have financial provisions for adult aspergers health care in their budgets. I nearly died when he told me this. Ever since my original complaint my life has been hell from the NHS. They have now gained a criminal conviction on me for supposable threatening to kill a PALS complaints manger down a dark ally. There was no recorded proof of this phone call only a feeble anonymous witness from their office to back up this claim. I have been accused of several other section 5 public order offences by them which were both thrown out by the courts for lack of evidence again.

 

In the end because of my persistence in demanding the right to have my compliant heard, by using ICAS, AVMA to mention a few, they took out a court injunction in June 2011 to ban me from contacting or entering any of their complaints departments such as PALS and even 2 hospitals in the area.

Because of this injunction i called NHS direct who told me to go out of area and vist another PCT. i went to Somerset Partnership Trust and saw a doctor who first time correctly identified what test should be done etc with regards to my symtoms etc, i know this as i have a degree in biomedical sciences and have worked in NHS labs myself. However, as soon as the new doctors checked back with my old PCT they changed their stance and tried to force me down the mental health assessment route. This is because if they can get another false diagnosis, it will make it near impossible to overturn this second opinion even though i have a private one, thus, letting them off the hook so to speak

any comments on this?

[Tintoret]

This is all very interesting. I recently had a minor operation at a major London teaching hospital. While the surgery was superb the post-surgical arrangements were chaotic. Realising that there were real problems here I began to record my consultations. My wound had become infected and I saw a registrar to check if the antibiotics were working. During the consultation I suggested to him, in an entirely friendly and pleasant way, that it would be good if he could have let patients know that he was delayed by an hour. He took this on board and apologised. I was very impressed. As I left the consultation he asked me if I received copies of the notes which the hospital sends to GPs. I said I did. I was slightly puzzled by this at the time.

 

Then, a week later, I received a copy of the letter which he wrote to my GP. On it he said that I had been angry with him for being late and that my behaviour towards him was "very intimidating". I couldn't believe my eyes! Now, unknown to him, I have the recording. I am completely polite and friendly. I even cracked a joke which he greeted with silence! I wrote to him telling him about the recording and asking him to revise the notes. The hospital has written back telling me I should have got consent before recording (which we know is not true). They have also said that even if I sound nice on the recording there are "other ways" that a doctor might feel intimidated!!! The manager has said that if a doctor "feels" intimidated then it is intimidation, regardless of what is on the tape. He tells me it is on my record so that if another doctor finds me intimidating I can be refused treatment.

 

It's like a Kafkaesque nightmare. They couldn't give a fig about the recording. I am currently reviewing my options but I do think this sort of abuse goes to the heart of why patients are scared of making complaints. It hits a chord with everyone I've told about it. This is how some doctors intimidate patients into keeping quiet.

[nolegion]

Two interesting posts and I have been suffering from cataclysmic PC problems – now largely cured, I think.

 

AndyP. That’s an interesting account and it seems like you face multiple, daunting challenges. I hope that recording is giving you some confidence you will not be (further) misrepresented. I think you are the first patient - contributor to this thread who video records consultations.

 

If you felt like sharing more information I would be very interested to know whether you do so ‘openly’ and if so what the clinicians ’reactions have been when you say you intend to record.

 

Has anyone tried to object?

 

Tintoret. If I may say so, ‘well held.’

 

I guess by now you already appreciate that as regards getting appropriate contradictions included in your medical records (both at hospital and GP ends) you will need to invoke the Data Protection Act and specify the accurate account you wish added. In my opinion it is always worth pushing for this legal entitlement right to the end of the line whenever you find false or misleading records – and inaccurate letters \telephone notes are usually just as much part of your medical record as anything else. (It’s also an entitlement that does not rely on being fobbed off by an insulting complaints procedure.)

 

This very recent decision from the GMC may also be of interest to you:-

 

http://www.gmc-uk.org/static/documents/content/Thomas.pdf

 

Although the GMC once again took no disciplinary action, it is a decision the leniency of which can clearly be argued to rely on the doctor’s first having admitted he was wrong...

Edited November 14, 2011 by nolegion

[Tintoret]

Thank you so much for that. It is significant that the doctor in that case (cf the link) admitted that he was wrong as soon as it was brought to his attention. The doctor in my case has admitted he should not have written that I was angry with him for being delayed on the ward (which of course makes me sound incredibly unreasonable and lacking in concern for the needs of other patients). He knows that as a matter of simple fact the recording will show that. But he is saying that if he felt intimidated then that was evidence in itself - no matter how polite I am on the recording. The evidence is the accusation, the accusation is the evidence. That really is pure Kafka and on one level I am finding this fascinating. I'm genuinely interested what they will say when my next letter points out the absurdity of this position and how this goes to the heart of why patients are often terrified to question anything about their treatment at all, in case their care is jeopardised.

 

I didn't know about this data protection thing and contradictions. I will look that up. Thanks for the support and the information.

[whitecraig_wizard]

The Data Protection Act REQUIRES that information held is accurate. You should contact the PCT Data registrar and inform them of the inaccuracy of the information held and that you are seeking to amend it. This is your legal right.

 

I am curious if you were upset by the Dr's conduct does that give you grounds for complaint, logically it would seems so !

 

How would they be compliant with both the equalities act and more importantly Disability Equality Duty if you could be seen as disabled ?

 

Finally, a twisted thought, as this employee can feel intimidated by a polite considered conversation, what of the duty of care owed to them under the Health & Safety at Work act, they obviously shouldn't be dealing with polite people. Perhaps removing them from dealing with the public would be appropriate !

[nolegion]

You are too right, WhitecraigW,

 

In addition to requiring the very stressful process of ‘rectification’ under the DPA , inaccurate medical records are indeed ‘grounds for complaint’.

 

They contravene GMC ethical rules; they breach the duty of care owed by the relevant NHS body, as well as that of the individual clinician; in some circumstances (I am told, though not something I know much about) they could incur criminal liability under the Fraud Act 2006; if defamatory they may be, most certainly, actionable as libel (been there, done it); under the DPA they can also provide entitlement to compensation in limited circumstance; and I am sure there are more categories worthy of consideration which haven’t managed to strike me yet this evening…

 

If I was to be perfectly frank though, the specific point that really gets me going in Tintoret's account is the reference to‘intimidation’. The insinuation is grave and can have grave consequencesfor a patient. I have seen such before,alas, in one shape or another, in a few cases: mostly from inadequate, snide and arrogant doctors who have had their noses put out of joint by perfectly reasonable, civilised patients merely standing their ground.

 

First point remains to ’get the record straight’ using theDPA, though. For another post, if my PC continues to behave.

[nolegion]

Getting the record straight.

 

This is from a Department of Health ‘Guidance’ document (February 2010), intended for NHS bodies and GPs:-

 

“Amendments to health records

 

29.Credible records are an important aid in providing safe healthcare to patients. Records should reflect the observations, judgements and factual information collected by the contributing health professional. The DPA fourth principle requires that information should be accurate and kept up-to-date. This provides the legal basis for enforcing correction of factual inaccuracies. An opinion or judgement recorded by a health professional, whether accurate or not, should not be deleted. Retaining relevant information is essential for understanding the clinical decisions that were made and to audit the quality ofcare.

 

30. If a patient feels that information recorded on their health record is incorrect, they should first make an informal approach to the health professional concerned to discuss the situation in an attempt to have the records amended. Where both parties agree that information is factually inaccurate it should be amended to clearly display the correction whilst ensuring that the original information is still legible. An explanation for the correction should also be added.

 

31. Where the health professional and patient disagree about the accuracy of the entry, the Department of Health recommends that the data controller should allow the patient to include a statement within their record to the effect that they disagree with the content.

 

32. If the patient is unhappy with the outcomes outlined in paragraphs 29 to 31, there is the option of taking this more formally (See ‘Complaints’ at paragraph 63).”

 

[….and from ‘paragraph63’:] … “Ultimately, the patient may not wish to make acomplaint through the NHS Complaints Procedure and take their complaint directto the Information Commissioner’s Office, if they believe the NHS is not complying with their request in accordance with the Data Protection Act.”

 

(see: http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/@dh/@en/@ps/documents/digitalasset/dh_113206.pdf)

 

HEALTH WARNING:although this ‘Guidance’ publication covers a lot of ground in clear-ish english, it is a poor document in so far as, throughout, it does not consistently distinguish between NHS ‘policy’ and patients’ actual statutory entitlements. The latter are ultimately considerably wider, more forceful, as regards correction of health records (or any other personal data) than the guidance indicates, for instance. In particular, reference should be made should be made to the wording of s. 14 (1) of the Data Protection Act 1998 :-

 

“14 Rectification,blocking, erasure and destruction.

 

(1) If a court is satisfied on the application of a data subject that personal data of which the applicant is the subject are inaccurate, the court may order the data controller to rectify, block, erase or destroy those data and any other personal data in respect of which he is the data controller and which contain an expression of opinion which appears to the court to be based on the inaccurate data.”

[My Turn]

Then, a week later, I received a copy of the letter which he wrote to my GP. On it he said that I had been angry with him for being late and that my behaviour towards him was "very intimidating". I couldn't believe my eyes! Now, unknown to him, I have the recording. I am completely polite and friendly.

 

I encountered something like this myself except in my case the consultant wrote two letters on the same day (one to my GP and one to his head of department) but only copied me on the letter to his head of department. The letter to my GP was outrageously untrue and I too have the audio recording to prove it. However I was too ill and a lot of time passed before I got a copy of my GP's notes under the Data Protect Act which is when I saw the offending letter.

 

By then I had been falsely branded a troublemaker and subsequently discharged after a subsequent consultation; allegedly at my request and allegedly witnessed by both the consultant and social worker who were present. Unfortunately for them, I also have an audio recording of that second consultation too which shows that their allegations are wholly untrue.

 

The problem I found is that unless one can in some way enforce a just hearing of the situation at which all the evidence (including such audio recordings) are admissible, then one doesn’t get very far at all. Sadly I was living on my own with no friends or family nearby and and therefore relied entirely on help from the hospital's Patient Advice and Liaison Service (PALS), the hospital's internal complaints procedure, a charitable advocacy (half funded by the hospital) and the NHS's Independent Complaints Advocacy Service (ICAS). I got nowhere.

 

Against the odds, I still hope that one day I might get some justice for what happened. If it wasn't for that I would probably have posted the audio recordings online.

 

-My Turn

Edited November 19, 2011 by My Turn

[My Turn]

They have now gained a criminal conviction on me for supposable threatening to kill a PALS complaints manger down a dark ally. There was no recorded proof of this phone call only a feeble anonymous witness from their office to back up this claim. I have been accused of several other section 5 public order offences by them which were both thrown out by the courts for lack of evidence again.

 

In the end because of my persistence in demanding the right to have my compliant heard, by using ICAS, AVMA to mention a few, they took out a court injunction in June 2011 to ban me from contacting or entering any of their complaints departments such as PALS and even 2 hospitals in the area.... (edited for brevity)

 

You have had a tough time! I am sorry to hear your story. It sounds as if you could use a growly friend to do all the forceful letter writing and phoning in order to prevent the vigour with which such communications are made being trumped up into a serious character defect on your part.

 

At one stage when I was in a similar situation to yourself, I would actually write the letters but then get someone else to say they had written it and use their address. Sadly, I found many people I knew did not want to step forward to help even though it was at no cost to them.

 

My best wishes go out to you. You seem to have quite a big struggle on your hands.

 

-My Turn

[nolegion]

That flags up a very genuine and very serious issue. A patient who complains can be victimised in a number of different ways and that they might get recorded as ‘vexatious’ or ‘diagnostically’ as suffering from amental illness or a ‘personality disorder’, because they dare to challenge medical records is, absolutely disgracefully, most certainly one of them.

 

Yet I would not want to dishearten any viewer\contributor who has recorded his\ her treatment, or discourage them from so challenging.

 

Truly, if patients with recorded evidence persist, they can‘get there’ – and when they do, in my experience, patients feel enormously relieved and cheered. And, just occasionally, the clinician concerned sometimes never practices again, which is better for us all.

 

The case of the GP – within my direct experience – who was made to write a formal apology to a patient under threat of a libel suit, and whose behaviour was published in the local press, was a very satisfactory example: he positively squirmed with resentment from start to finish of his come-uppance, in many different ways, and is now no longer practising (having‘voluntarily relinquished registration’ – a manoeuvre often opted for by quacks to avoid further proceedings at the GMC).

 

The initial fob-offs can be surmounted, if you have the evidence and the persistence.

 

Alas, if you haven’t a clearly contradictory audio-recording, and the inaccurate medical record relates to alleged patient behaviour during un-witnessed consultation (as opposed to ‘external’ factual matters disprovable by other means), you frankly don’t have much of a prayer with a ‘big guns’ threat like defamation proceedings, though the DPA ‘disagreement route’ may still be of meaningful assistance.

[Dollytots]

Hi all I've been reading all these posts past few days, a good friend of mine has been complaining about his local hospital, because his wife wasnt diagnosed properly and so wasn't treated as she should have been and became very ill because of this so my friend her husband has asked questions why his hospital didn't notice how I'll his wife really was he wanted answers which the hospital just wouldn't give , and because he persued it the called him vexatious, and said the would deal with him in any way they saw fit to do so, Just because he has asked questions is this not allowed can we not complain or ask why treatment wasn't given , surely this isn't correct is it?