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freds chasing old cat debt


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Here we go again - havent heard anything from anyone for just over a year. But over the next 3 to 5 months, 4 of my debts will become statute barred.

So now up pop Freds with threats of personal Armaggedon and nacher-removal unless I cough up almost £300 without delay.

Pleasantly posted CCA request today (recorded) KNOWING that there never was a signed contract ( catalogue debt).

So, what are Freds like when stuffed like this? Will they crawl back under their stone or will they hope that I have never heard of CAG and feed me some further bull?

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They might pass it along the table to Carters who could start legal proceedings. Very easy to knock them back by simply asking for the paperwork. If Freds don't have any its unlikely Carter would so the next leter would be a notice of discontunuance. That would be yo cue to start complaining. Like the policiticians would claim every vote ****s in the battle against debt collectors every complaint (made to the propoer authorities) counts.

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Thanks for the replies chaps. But doesnt the fact that I have now sent the CCA request stop any possible court action if its not complied with?

I know these creeps will try to sell it on, but now its officially in dispute shouldnt that stop everything?

What I mean is that if another DCA tries to get a CCJ, is not the CCA request a defense?

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Hi all, just a quick question that intrigues me.

There are thousands of people that shop through mail order catalogues ( I did once).

We all know that there is very rarely a signed agreement in place. I suppose you could say that its all done on trust.

So how does a court look on one of these debts?

Does CCA 1974 still apply or is there any other assumption?

Just curious.

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The shouldn't pass it on but that won't stop them. No one will take court action if they don't have an agreement and a request for a copy doesn't have anything to do with court action. It is simply a request for a copy of the agreement which you are entitled to ask for.

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Catalogue debt is subject to the CCA 1974 except where there are 5 payments or less to be made in a 12 month period or the value of goods is £50 or less.

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The lack of proper paperwork, specifically a compliant reply to a CCA request, is a complete defence to any court action. You're not at that stage yet. You have been sent a letter by a debt collector who has a particularly litigious "legal" department. I was simply putting you on notice. Firing off a CCA request puts Freds on alert that you just might know something about your rights and they might think twice before taking any further action. Then again they are greedy debt collectors...........

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And, of course, the District Judges will look at the cases under Contract Law. i.e. did you order the goods; did you receive them? did you use them? Whilst the majority of catalogue debts are unenforceable under CCA 1974, they can be enforced under Contract Law more often than not. I'm not saying that they all can, but some can.Don't forget, though, that the most extreme scenario is: if you order and receive and use without any intention of paying, then that's theft. Hardly ever used, as it's nearly impossible to prove. Just throwing a thought in there for discussion. :o)

I am a lawyer, but I am an academic lawyer. I do not practice as a barrister or solicitor. You should consult a practising Solicitor BEFORE taking any Court or other action

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Catalogue debt is subject to the CCA 1974 except where there are 5 payments or less to be made in a 12 month period or the value of goods is £50 or less.

Thanks Pinky, so what do the lower amounts fall under?

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And, of course, the District Judges will look at the cases under Contract Law. i.e. did you order the goods; did you receive them? did you use them? Whilst the majority of catalogue debts are unenforceable under CCA 1974, they can be enforced under Contract Law more often than not. I'm not saying that they all can, but some can.Don't forget, though, that the most extreme scenario is: if you order and receive and use without any intention of paying, then that's theft. Hardly ever used, as it's nearly impossible to prove. Just throwing a thought in there for discussion. :o)

 

Thanks for that rameses, can you explain the Contract Law bit a little further?

I wondered because its well known that catalogue firms regularly leave goods on peoples doorsteps, in sheds, garages, behind dustbins etc and I just wondered how they ( or a court) could ever prove the customer recieved the goods?

This doesnt apply to me by the way, its just something I wondered about.

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The smaller amounts are just straight forward claims for goods supplied. As for leaving stuff around, they would be on a sticky wicket there if they left them where they could be retrieved by someone else.

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Hi all, an update.......

Got a reply from Freds today re my CA request. ery curt and to the point....

 

Dear sir,

 

RE: LOWELL FINANCIAL LTD

ACCOUNT NO: XXXXXXX

OUTSTANDING BALANCE: £XXX.XX

 

Thank you for your recent letter.

 

We are unable to provide a copy of the CCA on this account. You can obtain a copy of the contract from your original supplier.

 

We return your Postal Order herewith.

 

Your faithfully.

 

......................... and thats it. Nothing else.

So does this mean they are trying to pass the buck back to Lowells and will carrying on sending the threatograms etc, or does anyone think its game over for Freds and they will sell the debt on?

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Oh dear...When will DCAs get the message that if they are sent a CCA request they are obliged by law to pass the same to the OC! Write back politely reminding freds of this and copy the letter to TS and the OFT :D

 

Remember to type cc to TS and OFT at the bottom of your letter :)

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

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The account falls in to a dispute situation if the S77/78 (CCA) request isn't fully furnished within the legal timescale of 12 + 2 working days. At this point the account holder should write to the DCA/OC advising of this situation and the DCA/OC should NOT enter in to any collection activity (any breach should be reported ASAP). ONLY when the request is fully furnished do the DCA/OC have the right to continue with collection activity which can include selling on to another company.

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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Just keep that letter. If they try to take legal action now, you have the evidence that there is no contract.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Cheers boys,

I was just making sure that this couldnt be a way in which they may have passed the buck.

The letter is filed away for future reference.

What Im asking is this - is the account still legally in dispute even though they have returned the PO and stated that I should seek the original agreement from the OC?

Just being careful.

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It would appear that the correspondance crossed in the post...

 

The account will only enter in to a dispute situation when the 12 + 2 days expire.

 

The fact that they returned your fee is irelevant to their duty to furnish the CCA or pass to the OC to furnish :)

 

They aint getting off that easy :D

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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That's because they are always trying it on. The minute they know you have a bit of nous, and know your rights, they bottle it.

 

Typical cheating, lying, ****** DCA.

 

(Did I overdo the last bit?)

 

Edit: Didn't cross in post, BB - they returned the PO! But you knew that (?)

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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That's because they are always trying it on. The minute they know you have a bit of nous, and know your rights, they bottle it.

 

Typical cheating, lying, ****** DCA.

 

(Did I overdo the last bit?)

 

Edit: Didn't cross in post, BB - they returned the PO! But you knew that (?)

 

NO!

 

Oops! Must be hungover from yesterday :)

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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I was just going to suggest that... many happy returns for yesterday.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Thanks boys,

just to be clear. Nothing crossed in the post. The CCA request was the ONLY correspondence they have recieved from me. So thats why I wondered why they should respond so quickly?

Lying? Cheating? Scumbags? Surely not?:D

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