welcome and multiple rolled loans **WON**

[kittiej]

So just to be clear, even though DH has made a payment he can still turn round and accept their TN?

 

I just want to be absolutely certain lol.

 

Thanks everyone

 

PS what do we do about the car. Do we insist on a court order before they take it back? It's off the road but I don't really want it as a permanent garden feature iykwim

[kittiej]

Oh my gosh I just really got my knickers in a twist lol.

 

I was just looking at the DN when I looked at the last part of the letter ie the actual DN, I was panicking thinking it was real, aaargh.

 

Then I came back here and my question was answered. The part about the DN must have a date to remedy any arrears by instead of just saying "On or after 14 days"

 

Thanks everyone for the advice, I shall type a letter up accepting the TN. BTW the TN SAYS " We refer to the DN issued from this office on 05/01/2010"

 

The date on the DN actually says 08/01/2010 so they can't even get that right. What is it with WF and dates? They seem to have a real problem with calendars pmsl.

 

Just one thing, do we owe the arrears on this DN or nothing at all? The reason I ask is that the DN was sent whilst DH was off sick and waiting for the PPI to pay out - which it did - so any arrears stated are already paid.

 

PS I know I'm being a pain in the butt now. What do we do about the car anyone know please? I don't want to tell them to come and get it if I can make their life just a little bit harder by insisting they get a court order.

Edited April 24, 2010 by kittiej

[mark1arby]

Kittie you will probably get more help and info on one of your other threads that you started, which all seem to be about the same subject anyway.

 

People will be getting confused with 3 other threads going and now posting on this thread.

 

It might even help if you started a completely new one with all up to date stuff!!!

 

It seems you know what needs to be done and you want it checked out. That is always a good idea. You could be better off getting the 3 threads put together under a new title.

 

I am sure you will then get the best of advice. I personally think you have some very important questions, because some of your case is a little different to most. And I will be looking forward to having some of your problems explained, if possible by some one who `Knows Their Stuff`.

 

I think the only way to give the **** the Run Around with the car, is to hold on to it and make them Work to get it back.

 

Cheers, MARK

[dx100uk]

Kittie you will probably get more help and info on one of your other threads that you started, which all seem to be about the same subject anyway.

 

People will be getting confused with 3 other threads going and now posting on this thread.

 

 

i'll get the site teams to merge them all and these posts too.

 

dx

[kittiej]

Thanks guys, it's just that I don't seem to be getting the answers I need to be absolutely certain I'm doing things correctly.

[mark1arby]

Thanks guys, it's just that I don't seem to be getting the answers I need to be absolutely certain I'm doing things correctly.

 

No Problem kittiej. I think you will have a better chance of good advice with your own thread.

 

I want to know as well!!!

 

Cheers, MARK

[emandcole]

Just one thing, do we owe the arrears on this DN or nothing at all?

 

Hi, if the default was invalid and then terminated on unlawfully, which you really must accept in writing to demonstrate your intentions, the creditor is only entitled to collect the amount as stated on that default.

 

Such amounts are still subject to audit for accuracy of course. This is all about the creditor having ended the agreement meaning they cannot take advantage of section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act, which effectively allows the creditor to demand 'monies not yet due'.

 

However, as they've messed the important steps up that allows them to collect these sums early they lose out on their right to enforce that return of sums due, meaning all that is legitimately left outstanding is the amount shown on the default notice.

 

Hope that's clear enough

[mark1arby]

Hi, if the default was invalid and then terminated on unlawfully, which you really must accept in writing to demonstrate your intentions, the creditor is only entitled to collect the amount as stated on that default.

 

Such amounts are still subject to audit for accuracy of course. This is all about the creditor having ended the agreement meaning they cannot take advantage of section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act, which effectively allows the creditor to demand 'monies not yet due'.

 

However, as they've messed the important steps up that allows them to collect these sums early they lose out on their right to enforce that return of sums due, meaning all that is legitimately left outstanding is the amount shown on the default notice.

 

Hope that's clear enough

 

Thanks emandcole for your answer! None of this is effected by a sum of monies having been paid to the Account After the Scums Termination?

 

Cheers, MARK

[beyondhope]

Oh my gosh I just really got my knickers in a twist lol.

 

I was just looking at the DN when I looked at the last part of the letter ie the actual DN, I was panicking thinking it was real, aaargh.

 

Then I came back here and my question was answered. The part about the DN must have a date to remedy any arrears by instead of just saying "On or after 14 days"

 

Thanks everyone for the advice, I shall type a letter up accepting the TN. BTW the TN SAYS " We refer to the DN issued from this office on 05/01/2010"

 

The date on the DN actually says 08/01/2010 so they can't even get that right. What is it with WF and dates? They seem to have a real problem with calendars pmsl.

 

Just one thing, do we owe the arrears on this DN or nothing at all? The reason I ask is that the DN was sent whilst DH was off sick and waiting for the PPI to pay out - which it did - so any arrears stated are already paid.

 

PS I know I'm being a pain in the butt now. What do we do about the car anyone know please? I don't want to tell them to come and get it if I can make their life just a little bit harder by insisting they get a court order.

 

 

I had 2 termination notices for these exact reason the first one had the wrong date on it

[kittiej]

Thanks Guys.

 

Emandcole I understand what you're saying, that's great.

 

beyonhope, I don't want to give them the chance to issue another DN or TN with the correct dates on so I am writing to them today.

 

Mark, if there's any bits of help I can give as I'm going along then I will try to help by letting you know what scams they try to come out with next.

[beyondhope]

Thanks Guys.

 

Emandcole I understand what you're saying, that's great.

 

beyonhope, I don't want to give them the chance to issue another DN or TN with the correct dates on so I am writing to them today.

 

Mark, if there's any bits of help I can give as I'm going along then I will try to help by letting you know what scams they try to come out with next.

 

 

I receieved 1 DN 15th Jan was on it

 

then 1st feb TN stating in regard to DN dated 15th Jan and then 2nd feb in relation to DN dated 11th Jan Still doesnt take away from the fact the DN is defective tho eh

[kregrs]

Hi, if the default was invalid and then terminated on unlawfully, which you really must accept in writing to demonstrate your intentions,

 

Is there a time limit to accepting the iffy TN? Received mine back in Aug 08, and wasn't aware of accepting it in writing til a month or two ago. Although no payments have been made since their TN, so I'm assuming that could be a clear acceptance of it???

[emandcole]

Is there a time limit to accepting the iffy TN? Received mine back in Aug 08, and wasn't aware of accepting it in writing til a month or two ago. Although no payments have been made since their TN, so I'm assuming that could be a clear acceptance of it???

 

Believe there are no 'accepted or formal' rules to acceptance but generally the sooner the better would definitely apply. Some people look back through their records and realise they actually sent one ages ago, can be easy to forget that you may have actually sent one.

 

If you have paid after accepting termination the creditor could state you certainly didn't accept termination as you cpontinued to make payment - thus proof you didn't accept the offer to terminate as you acted as if that agreement endured. In effect you've given them a get out of jail free card.

 

The only plausible argument to this is that in your letter of acceptance you asked for an accurate arrears balance to be given so you can clear the amount lawfully owed, but the creditor did not provide it. Your payments were therefore offered to clear those assumed arrears and were not paid in recognition of the actual debt itself. I suspect however that an argument along those lines would be rejected by the court.

 

As for using the 'I didn't pay' argument as proof of acceptance that will get you nowhere if you also weren't paying before you accepted the termination - the court will look for a clear sign of acceptance.

 

So, the fact you didn't pay before and you didn't pay after would not be good enough as no real distinction .

[emandcole]

Thanks emandcole for your answer! None of this is effected by a sum of monies having been paid to the Account After the Scums Termination?

 

Cheers, MARK

 

Hi Mark, see above post on how amounts paid after termination could be viewed by the court. You may (probably will) struggle to reason what these payments were for . However, bear in mind that if their default notice is invalid and they then terminate that means they cannot re-issue a 'correct' default and they cannot take further steps under the powers provided in section 87 of the CCA.

 

In court your argument is absolute and their action fatally flawed.

 

This would mean they can't demand money not yet due as they messed the process up. The default really is key and the demand for full payment any time after on the back of that default is the icing on the cake. That leads me to question the real value of accepting the default and unlawful termination as an invalid default coupled with termination is the important aspect of all of this, period.

 

Think the acceptance really is the 'nail in the coffin' for them, provides you with credibility and complete clarity and is perhaps of most value for anyone looking to claim or counterclaim for that unlawful act.

Edited April 26, 2010 by emandcole
missed a word out - doh!

[mark1arby]

Well Sorted!!! Thanks for that emandcole!!!

 

Cheers, Mark

[kittiej]

DH sent the letter to WF.

 

He received his TN just days before the PPI paid out which was about £1600, I had forgotten this until DH said yesterday. He also paid about a hundred pounds himself after the home visit he had.

 

Thanks for the advice emandcole because the TN was sent on the back of a pay within 14 days DN. As I said above the DN was dated 08/01/2010 but the TN says further to our DN dated 05/01/2010.

 

They've still shot themselves in the foot though since the TN is dated 19/01/2010.

 

We shall see what happens. The arrears were about £1190 so they've had more than that now.

Edited April 26, 2010 by kittiej

[kregrs]

Believe there are no 'accepted or formal' rules to acceptance but generally the sooner the better would definitely apply. Some people look back through their records and realise they actually sent one ages ago, can be easy to forget that you may have actually sent one.

 

If you have paid after accepting termination the creditor could state you certainly didn't accept termination as you cpontinued to make payment - thus proof you didn't accept the offer to terminate as you acted as if that agreement endured. In effect you've given them a get out of jail free card.

 

The only plausible argument to this is that in your letter of acceptance you asked for an accurate arrears balance to be given so you can clear the amount lawfully owed, but the creditor did not provide it. Your payments were therefore offered to clear those assumed arrears and were not paid in recognition of the actual debt itself. I suspect however that an argument along those lines would be rejected by the court.

 

As for using the 'I didn't pay' argument as proof of acceptance that will get you nowhere if you also weren't paying before you accepted the termination - the court will look for a clear sign of acceptance.

 

So, the fact you didn't pay before and you didn't pay after would not be good enough as no real distinction .

 

So I'd best get a letter off to them, accepting the termination, over 18 months later

[emandcole]

So I'd best get a letter off to them, accepting the termination, over 18 months later

 

Perhaps, unless you can find the one you actually sent at the time. Probably be in another file or something if you have a good look, it's easy to misplace a letter.

[emanevs]

they just serve this to but a bad marker on your credit file, even though its a pile of sh*t!

[kittiej]

Re the credit file part.

 

That only matters if you want credit in the near future. If you intend saving up for everything in the future, like we are, then a credit report is a pretty poor bargaining tool on WF behalf

[Picador]

Hi there

 

On the default issue, my default with this lot was supposed to drop off in december 09 and did...only to appear with a new default issue date on cra data of 29/3/08, the defaults I received where dated 31/12/03. /so effectively they have kept the same account no & details and changed the date the default was issued, and no I have no letters/default/sheriff officer notices from 2008, I was in dispute with Welcome Finance and selling property with secured loan at the time so was in constant communication with them...no default issued to me!

 

Cras will do bugger all and take their word for it even though I have original default and cra reports for years with the same details. Trying to find out if they can do this but have contacted the ICO about data protection and will forward all documents to them.

 

I actually had a letter from Welcome stating the default was pertaining to an unpaid amount in 2003 and therefore and I quote " Your credit file was set to default 29th March 2008"

 

by way of explanation...well there is none!!???!!! default in 2003 so we will put that on your file consistently and em then officially start it in 2008!!! What the hell? ICO can deal with it, they are clearly at it and I have the documentation to prove it.

 

Can I just add anyone feeling threatened with court action, Welcome won't act on it, they told me on the phone, I haven't paid anything in 2 years and they have not asked for one single penny, not even asked me to arrange a payment, nothing.

 

Also it may be of interest to some...when Experian contacted me advising I write to the company to have default removed (Ha!) the address gives:

 

Welcome Finance Ltd (Barclays assist)

 

Anyone know why that is?

 

Any advice on the legalities of issuing a default without issuing one etc much appreciated.

 

[susiemac77]

Hi Picador

 

You say you didnt pay in 2 years and they never asked for a penny

 

Did you get daily phonecalls (i've been ignoring them and just get voicemails asking me to call back) and did they ever turn up at your door

[Picador]

Hi Picador

 

You say you didnt pay in 2 years and they never asked for a penny

 

Did you get daily phonecalls (i've been ignoring them and just get voicemails asking me to call back) and did they ever turn up at your door

 

Hi Susiemac

 

I have been in contact with Welcome and they have yet to ask for a payment, in fairness they are sitting waiting like vultures till I sell my property to get any equity, unfortunately for them the market value has dropped lower than my mortgage balance and they will get nothing from the sale. I have been badly missold and there are all kinds of issues with my account, they told me on the phone there was no point in taking me to court if I had no money. instead they choose to file incorrect default information, Its now with the ICO.

 

Initially they phoned, sent threatening notes through my door the whole works but I deal with compliance and not a local branch now as I filed harrassment charges against their local office.

 

Hope this helps in some way. I have a secured loan with them and the settlement is 3 times the balance I have already paid, effectively paying £15,000 on an £5000 loan.

 

Pic

[bustthematrix]

Picador

 

If you want proper help and feedback, please start your own thread. In the Welcome Finance Area of course.

[bustthematrix]

they just serve this to put a bad marker on your credit file, even though its a pile of sh*t!

 

Too right, too busy being vinctive to do their job properly!!!

 

Oh well, if it helps build one's case against them, I guess it's "all good"!