Sacked and kicked to the street on Easter Sunday

[swisspie89]

Hi,

 

A friend of mine has just been pulled through a disciplinary procedure at work and dismissed on some very odd grounds. Not going to go into much detail about them now as he will be appealing. The question I have is relating to the company accommodation he was living in.

 

After 7 years service without a blemish on his file he has been dismissed for an incident that occurred whilst he was out of the country. It probably warranted a reminder and warning at worst but they have managed to construe it as gross misconduct.

 

Since his accommodation agreement and job contract work along side each other he has been told that they can kick him to the street with no notice if he is dismissed for gros mis. This is exactly what they have done.

They are now threattening to come with company bailiffs on drag him out and change his locks if he is not out by Sunday.

 

He has received a letter from the disciplining manager (not personnel or senior management) telling him to be out of the flat by Sunday. He was dismissed from his position late on Thursday evening and received the letter this morning. Taking into account that this is Easter and absolutely nowhere is open from Friday to Monday can they actually do this? He has no where to go.

 

I know that with a tenancy agreement they would not be able to do this as an eviction notice would need to be served. Does the law protect people with company accommodation agreements or are they allowed to kick a man to the street with nowhere to live?

 

The incident he was dismissed for was because his friend went to his flat to check on it whilst he was out of the country for a month. The company kicked down the door and changed the lock whilst he was away and have now sacked him upon his return. It wasn’t even related to his job and there is nothing he could have done to defend himself.

Edited April 2, 2010 by swisspie89
update

[elpulpo]

This isn't my particular area, but I'm almost certain that they can't do this.

It is unlawful eviction, which is a criminal offence. Quite a serious one at that. I'd suggest that he contacts the police, explains the situation and asks for their help. He has this threat in writing?

You say he was out of the country for a month, was he away as part of his work, or was he on holiday?

They kicked his door in and changed the locks. He's back in the flat now?

What sort of business does your friend work for? It seems strange the the company has 'bailiffs'.

[swisspie89]

Thanks for reply, its very much appreciated.

 

The grey area here is that its not a tenancy agrement per say. Its an accommodation agrement that links to his contract of employment, so do the laws and protection surrounding unlawful eviction apply in this case?

 

He was out of the counrty visiting family he had not seen for 3 years!!

 

He is back in the flat now, his disciplinary was yesterday and his notice/ confirming letter came today.

 

They changed the lock while he was away - againg, grey area. Its not a tenancy agreement so can they do this? It is concidered a perk to have this accommodation (at a rate of £30pw + £12 council tax and £19 bondand salary sacrifice) and they felt that a breach of security had occured.

 

The company is a well known pub chain.

[elpulpo]

As I said, I'm not 100% on this, but my understanding is that anyone, regardless of the circumstances, has basic tenancy rights. They can't just come round with some heavies and physically chuck him out. If he's got a letter from the manager threatening this, he needs to get onto the police ASAP. I think the manager has already commited an offence by threatening such.

Contact the police and explain what's happening.

Contact the employer and tell them that you've spoken to the police. Warn them that if they attempt to evict him, he'll make an emergency call to the police and use all neccessary force to resist the eviction.

First thing next week, go and speak to a solicitor or CAB.

[swisspie89]

Thanks,

 

Just been on the phone to Shelter. His accommodation agreement means nothing. Law dictates the hallmarks of a tennancy agreement not a companies policies.

 

He is living here under a "secure tenancy" and as such needs to be served with a section 21. If in the worst case scenario the company decide that his accommodation is a "Secure ocupancy" then they still have to give him 2 months notice.

 

Apparantly the company are on thin ice here. Unlawfull eviction carries a fine and possible prison sentance. The manager has already overstepped some boundaries already by the sounds of it.

Edited April 2, 2010 by swisspie89
update

[elpulpo]

I thought it sounded dodgy.

I'd still speak to the police, and contact the employer.

[swisspie89]

brilliant, thanks for the advice - much appreciated.

[Bigredbus]

It actually depends on his contract... In his case, there is two kinds of agreement:

 

a) service occupancy

b) service tenancy

 

In the former agreement, his occupancy is tied in his contract of employment and he would have to vacate the premises upon termination of his employment.

 

In the latter, he would have full rights of tenant...

 

Find out which agreement he is under...

[elpulpo]

I just don't think it matters, BRB. Short of a situation where, say, I'm kipping on your sofa or I'm a guest in a hotel, I don't think a landlord can go round and forcibly remove someone. They need a court order and the assistance of proper bailiffs and the police.

The police just wouldn't allow any other circumstance, apart from anything else, because it'd dissolve into outright violence.

[Zamzara]

Is it a self-contained flat with no-one else living there?

Edited April 2, 2010 by Zamzara
merge

[Bigredbus]

If his occupancy is ancillary to his contract of employment, he would have to vacate the premises upon termination of his contract... the employer would, obviously, have to give the employee reasonable time to vacate...

 

Again, it depends on the contract he entered into with his employer...

[elpulpo]

If his occupancy is ancillary to his contract of employment, he would have to vacate the premises upon termination of his contract... the employer would, obviously, have to give the employee reasonable time to vacate...

 

Again, it depends on the contract he entered into with his employer...

Yes, but that doesn't mean the employer can come round at a few days notice with 'company bailiffs' (this is a pub chain, they have bailiffs?) and forcibly remove him.

[maroondevo52]

Two threads merged.

 

swisspie89, I've unapproved the duplicate, better sticking to one.

[swisspie89]

Wow this is all helpfull - thankyou so much.

 

He is living under a "secure tenancy" it is not a requirement of his job to live in the accommodation and is therefore apparantly construed as a tenancy not an occupancy.

 

Yes the contract he has states that "this does not form the bond of landlord and tennant" so they try to get out on that one - however, as mentioned before; it is law that dictates the hallmarks of a tenancy agrement, not a company policy. I am told that the company are in for a rude awakening if they beleive this.

 

He does pay rent - it is deducted from his weekly wages.

 

The flat he is in is all fully contained and he does not share facilites with anyone. He has his own living space, kitchen, bathroom, toilet, bedroom and corridor.

 

They have already changed his locks whilst away on holiday. The advisor i spoke with was pretty astonished.

 

The bailiff talk is just nonesence. Its the manager trying to scare him into leaving on sunday.

 

The irony of all this is - he has been dismissed for giving his friend his key to go and check on his flat whilst he was out of the counrty. He has been dismissed for breaching his accommodation agrement which has resulted in a breakdown of trust and conidence. Construed as gross misconduct becuase by giving his friend his key, he has jeopardised the security of the pub.

 

The disiplining manager works at another outlet and allows somone not working for the company to LIVE in one of the flats there, full alarm code access and all.

 

So all in, they can ask him to leave - he accepts that. All he wants is some reasonable time to do so. He returned from holiday and within 3 days has been made unemployed and forced to the street under some very odd circumstances.

[Zamzara]

This is ridiculous: he had a perfect right to have a visitor as part of his quiet enjoyment.

 

They have acted absolutely illegally in changing the locks without a court order and they must not perfrom any eviction action without one.

[elpulpo]

Is it neccessary to enter the pub in order to enter the flat?

[swisspie89]

It is outlined in his accommodation agreement that visitors must be accompanied - so technically he has screwed up by giving him the key and asking him to go round check on his flat. Probably warranted a telling off and warning at best.

 

So they definately would not have been allowed to change the locks to his flat even though they own it and felt their buinsess was under threat?

 

He has been dismissed for letting somone have access to back of house areas - I cant see the need to have the locks to his flat changed.

 

I fully agree that this is ridiculous. It sounds to me that they are acting illegally in a few ways here.

 

Under what act would changing his locks being an unlawfull act occur?

 

Who would he turn to for help with such a huge company?

[swisspie89]

It is neccessary for him to enter through a large double gate at the back of the pub. This gate is locked and all tennants have a key. The reason it is lock is becuase when the pub is trading, you can gain access to the kitchen and some dry stock.

 

Interestingly, this lock is broken and has been for some time. So technically - any passing public can gain access to the pub and its stock as the gate is only pushed shut.

 

Maybe the pub manager should get that fixed before dismissing somone for giving his keys to a friend. Giving his keys to a friend becommes immaterial if the gate is open to the public anyway.

 

I could spend all day telling you guys about this company and the way it works internally.

[elpulpo]

So no significant security issue with what happened.

It strikes me that, apart from anything else, he's got a good case for unfair dismissal here.

Funny that he's still got his appeal to be heard, yet they're evicting him already.

[swisspie89]

I would say so. I'll coin that phrase if you don't mind.

 

In light of the only lock sepparating the public from the back of house area being broken anyway, no significant security issue has been caused by Mr X. Infact, more of an issue should be raised by the pub managers negligence in repairing a readilly accesible route to company stock.

 

The ins and outs of his dismissal are something for another day I think. He will need to appeal the decision anyhow before pursing a CD case i think?

 

For now, we are trying to make sure he doesn't get kicked out to the street on a religious holiday and is atleast afforded a reasonable ammount of time to find somehwere to live. A task that is already pretty hard considering his now lack of job.

 

Arn't some people in this world jst lovely?!

Edited April 2, 2010 by swisspie89
typo galore

[Conniff]

Yes, but that doesn't mean the employer can come round at a few days notice with 'company bailiffs' (this is a pub chain, they have bailiffs?) and forcibly remove him.

 

These are not bailiffs, bailiffs are sent in on a court order, these are just heavies as mentioned before, they have no legal rights.

[Bigredbus]

He is living under a "secure tenancy" it is not a requirement of his job to live in the accommodation and is therefore apparantly construed as a tenancy not an occupancy.

 

I have no extended knowledge of housing laws... but if it is a 'SECURE TENANCY', they cannot terminate his contract as they intend to...

 

For more info, check The Housing Law Website

[elpulpo]

These are not bailiffs, bailiffs are sent in on a court order, these are just heavies as mentioned before, they have no legal rights.

Exactly.

[Zamzara]

The local council's tenancy relations officer may be able to help, they are responsible for investigating illegal eviction.

[ncf355]

Oh, I have no expert info to offer but I do hope these people get screwed for what they have attempted

 

Seems like a real case for unfair dismissal

 

BTW, good for you helping your friend out in a time of need!