A&L paid a direct debit when not enough money then charged me !!

[lisaclaim]

Surely there must be something we can do... please advise.

 

Please see this link:

http://i41.tinypic.com/17769c.jpg

 

...shows six block instances of charges and fees applied to our account.

 

We have a £100 overdraft.

 

They did give me warning of when they were taking the sum payments of the £5 per day charges.

 

Basically why are they allowed to pay standing order and direct debits when there is not enough money in the account and keep doing so and then charge us for it!!!

 

Also if you see the one on the 18th March they decided they were not going to pay it and charged me £25. How did they make that decision which would have only made me £6 overdrawn but previously continue to pay them which made me over £150 overdrawn. Makes no sense at all.

 

I complained to them and they replied stating that they could not refund them so I complained again explaining how ridiculous it was and below are the 2 pages I received as what they say is a final review.

 

http://i39.tinypic.com/t89m6g.jpg - Page one of A&L reply

http://i39.tinypic.com/30c6pmf.jpg - Page two of the A&L reply

 

I also read somewhere but cannot remember where so not sure if legit that we could reply with the following. As I trust Consumer Action Group I am asking anyone if I could use this method. In my case I would presume that I would use the human and legal element as I am not really in hardship although when it happens it is annoying!! I get paid weekly and in one of the instances I paid in £140 nearly all my wage just to get the charges down even though it didnt bring it within the threshold for no more charges!!!

 

IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ THEN DELETE THIS PAGE

 

This is a template letter for guidance. You need to add your details and where appropriate change the letter to suit your particular circumstances.

Once you’ve made changes, always print it out and read through to check it makes sense to the recipient.

HOW IT WORKS:

 

[bLUE BRACKETS]: Put your specific info here, then delete the instructions (and change the text colour)

[RED BRACKETS]: Just for info, after you’ve read ENSURE YOU DELETE

Please remember it is VERY IMPORTANT you make this section as personal as possible to give a better chance of your claim not being turned down.

Now delete this page so your letter starts from the name and address section below

 

[insert your name

and address]

[insert date]

[insert name and

address of bank]

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: [insert the number of the bank account you are writing to reclaim from]

I am writing in response to your letter dated [insert date on the letter from the bank] in which you have advised my complaint about unfair bank charges is to be closed and have given me eight weeks to respond.

I feel that in issuing these charges you have broken the FSA’s regulatory principle to ‘pay due regard to the interests of its customers and treat them fairly’ and I am writing to request that you do not close my complaint but instead take the following new grounds into consideration:

 

 

[uSE THIS SECTION IF YOU ARE USING THE HUMAN ARGUMENT OR DELETE]

I believe the fact that I have been incurring bank charges goes contrary to the aims of the Lending Code (Section 9) and Banking Conduct of Business Sourcebook (section 5.1.4 ‘in particular, a firm should deal fairly with a banking customer whom it has reason to believe is in financial difficulty’), and previously were contrary to the Banking Code. My personal situation has been affected by the charges leaving me in financial hardship in the following ways:

[Now you need to tell your own story... we can’t write this for you

Explain why you think charges were unfair in your own words (see examples in the guide). You should try and include examples which demonstrate as many of the following points as are relevant.

 

· Can’t pay for necessities. You’re struggling to meet basic necessities eg mortgage, council tax, food, utility bills

· Can’t pay debts. You’re struggling to make loan and credit card repayments

· Income eaten by charges. Your income’s being eaten up by repaying charges (eg you’re being asked to pay £50 of charges from a £100 weekly benefit income)

· Payments regularly returned. Your payments regularly get returned unpaid as you’ve not enough money in your account

· Substantial drop in income. For example, you’ve lost your job, started a lower paid job, needed to take parental or carers leave, your partner has died, you’ve separated from your partner, you’ve started full time education or you/your partner has been/gone to prison

· Disability or illness. You’ve needed to increase spending on something due to a disability or serious illness

· Going bankrupt or into debt management. You’re going bankrupt, getting an IVA or Debt Relief Order or are in a debt management plan

· Living off credit. You’re living off credit and regularly need to increase your credit limit

· Regular credit card cash withdrawals. You are using regular cash withdrawals from credit cards to make ends meet

· Frequently over overdraft limit. You frequently go over your overdraft limit. In earlier incarnations of hardship rules this was explained as having more than £500 of charges a year – so that seems a good benchmark

Bank charges have hurt your situation. The charges have contributed to making your financial hardship situation materially worse

· The charges are disproportionate. If you unintentionally slipped over your limit by a few pounds and the charge is a lot higher than the ‘offence’ eg you go £1 over but charged £35.

· You are / were stuck in a cycle of charges you cannot break out off. If you’ve had charges on charges, and were stuck in a trap of not being able to clear them before new daily or monthly fees are added on top.

 

Delete these instructions when you’ve written your section]

[uSE THIS SECTION IF YOU ARE USING THE LEGAL ARGUMENT OR DELETE]

The charges are unfair under s.140A(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and contrary to the requirement of good faith, having caused a significant imbalance in our relationship and a detriment to myself, and under regulation 5(1) of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, in the following respects (save for, in the case of the later, those matters which relate to the level of the charge as against the service supplied in exchange):

(1) The charges were (or had the potential to be) excessive and punitive in comparison with the costs to the bank caused by my conduct which triggered the charges.

(2) The charges were set by reference to the overall cost to the bank of providing current accounts to all of its customers which held such an account, rather than merely to the cost of my conduct thereby effectively requiring me to subsidise the provision of current accounts by the bank to other customers.

(3) In the premises the bank did not deal fairly as between myself and its other customers.

(4) The existence and quantum of the charges were inadequately and/or insufficiently explained and/or drawn to my attention either; when my account was first opened; when I gave an instruction which would result in the levying of a charge; or otherwise before any particular charge was applied.

(5) The circumstances and manner in which the charges were levied created potential for the application of multiple charges and the levying of charges to give rise to the application of further charges.

(6) The complexity of the charges and/or the circumstances in which they were levied.

(7) The nature of the charges and/or the circumstances of their application was such as to cause me inherent difficulties in predicting the incidence and amount of such charges in advance.

(8) The absence of any effective competition between providers of current accounts which restricted my ability to chose a current account operated on terms which did not provide for charges such as (and/or equivalent to) those levied by your bank.

(9) The charges were (or had the potential to be) excessive in comparison with the level of borrowing which triggered the levying of the said charges.

In particular, and without prejudice, the burden of proof for the above rests on [enter name of your bank] to prove that the circumstances of our relationship are fair (pursuant to s.140B(9) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974), so unless you can provide evidence to the contrary I expect a refund of the full amount requested by return.

[uSE THE REST OF THIS LETTER FOR ALL CIRCUMSTANCES]

I now ask that you repay the amount I have previously requested of £[enter amount you previously asked for] [delete this last part if not relevant] which included the interest a court would award.

I look forward to a full response to this letter within 14 days and if I do not receive a satisfactory response I intend to pursue my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service or small claims court at the earliest opportunity.

Yours faithfully,

Yours faithfully,

[insert your signature]

[insert your name (printed)]

[include a list of charges and be sure to keep a copy for yourself]

 

THANKS EVERYONE have a good easter x

[spark911]

If it's the first time you have been charged they will likely refund it as a gesture of goodwill, say it was an error and you forgot to put some money in or something (this can usually be resolved at the branch in person or over phone).

 

However, a direct debit usually goes regardless of whether you have the money as it's part of the direct debit guarantee I believe that the bank will still honour it and then pursue you for the funds itself rather than leave the person who called for the direct debit money without funds.

[mich18]

A&L have also done this to me and informed me its the banks decision whether or not to pay it, as I had already been overdrawn once in the past year they wouldnt refund the money.

Today I have checked my account and I am 0.25p overdrawn so they have again added £25.00. I have sent the CEO an email just waiting for reply.

[email protected]

[lisaclaim]

If it's the first time you have been charged they will likely refund it as a gesture of goodwill, say it was an error and you forgot to put some money in or something (this can usually be resolved at the branch in person or over phone).

 

However, a direct debit usually goes regardless of whether you have the money as it's part of the direct debit guarantee I believe that the bank will still honour it and then pursue you for the funds itself rather than leave the person who called for the direct debit money without funds.

 

I have searched the internet to look for a direct debit guarantee that shows that they are allowed to take money from my account even if there is no money and I cannot find one. If anyone can find one can they let me know.

 

Many thanks

[lisaclaim]

Hiya

I sent an email to BACS services and this was their response:

 

Good afternoon

 

Please be advised that the direct debit guarantee is in place to cover the customer if there is an error made with a DD payment. The guarantee does not cover a consumer if they do not have the funds available on the day of the direct debit collection. As far as bank charges are concerned, this is a banking policy and is out of the realm of the guarantee.

 

 

If you require further assistance please contact the Service Desk on 0870 165 0018 or email: [email protected].

 

Regards

 

Heshaam El-Moghraby

Service Desk Analyst

( +44 (0) 870 165 0018

* [email protected]

8 www.bacs.co.uk

 

From what I gather this means is that it is the banks responsibility. I cannot find anything on the Alliance & Leicester website about the direct debit scheme. The only text I can find about the direct debit scheme is as follows which from how I read it does not give the bank authorisation to pay the direct debit if I do not have enough funds.

 

Any ideas anyone please...

[spark911]

Have you pointed this out to them that in the past they paid out and made you £150 overdrawn? However, when they took you 150 over drawn did they still charge you £25? Seems they charge you for making the payment or not making it, its a charge for "reviewing" whether or not to pay - altho i imagine its automated

 

Payment Review Fee

If there is not enough money in your account or sufficient overdraft to pay for a

transaction, we will decide whether or not to pay or return the item. If we have

to make a decision, you will have to pay a Payment Review Fee of £25 for each

transaction (see note one on page 1)

PDF Redirector

[lisaclaim]

Hi, yes they paid the items then charged me £25 for not having enough money in my account and then on top of that £5 per day whilst still overdrawn !!

 

I know I should have enough money... but I to date I have not found anything in any terms and conditions that says they can do it. It also makes no sense as once with a cheque which would have taken me overdrawn they didnt pay it and then charged me £25

 

It is really confusing. I am sure there must be something that can stop them from doing this.

 

They have responded to my last request for refund with basically NO

 

Any ideas anyone

[spark911]

Hi, yes they paid the items then charged me £25 for not having enough money in my account and then on top of that £5 per day whilst still overdrawn !!

 

I know I should have enough money... but I to date I have not found anything in any terms and conditions that says they can do it. It also makes no sense as once with a cheque which would have taken me overdrawn they didnt pay it and then charged me £25

 

It is really confusing. I am sure there must be something that can stop them from doing this.

 

They have responded to my last request for refund with basically NO

 

Any ideas anyone

 

You could try asking direct to the relevant T&C that allows them to do this stating you can not find it