Credit Ref Agency reply to DPA s.12 request-help please

[countrybake]

James it seems you have the whole forum against you why do you put yourself through this!

 

it is very good though giving your time up to answer questions in a round about way.

 

just a quick question though i am curious to know if you have any bank charges you are claiming back or have already.

[david.m]

The change should go through today hopefully. It's actually slightly more complicated than you say as the FAQs are run on a separate system.

 

The 'send us your query' link is on all the FAQ pages (apart from Top Ten which will change shortly), but you have to select what you want to query and go into the relevant FAQs first.

 

Using web forms instead of just providing e-mail addresses makes sure we get all the information we need from you to deal with your queries. The BBC does exactly the same.

 

I also agree that a spell checker would be good.

 

James

 

hmm, or you could just have given the direct link as asked.

https://www.creditreporthelp.experian.co.uk/experian/consumer/faq.aspx?s=2

 

it doesnt appear to be a ready made frontend for general email though and the fact its secure

will again limit its use, for instance, by people with disability and related equipment as i already pointed out, and you ignored.

 

web forms are all well and good, you dont need to use anything special on the users end as your site currently does though, and by "makes sure we get all the information we need from you" would also include tracking our IP plus other info and placing that into a database for other purposes perhaps?.

 

"The BBC does exactly the same" so your trying to say that because the BBC do it, its right that you do too?, apparently porn sites operate secure web forms and perhaps log IP as well so does that mean your taking their lead too?.

 

"I also agree that a spell checker would be good" i dont see anyone making reference to that other than you james?, are you trying to have a go at dyslexics and their disability ?.

 

looking at the html and finding this says it all really

"NAME="GENERATOR" CONTENT="Microsoft Visual Studio .NET 7.1"

 

The change should go through today hopefully. It's actually slightly more complicated than you say as the FAQs are run on a separate system.

 

its no more complicated than logging into the site from anywere in the world(even from your desk machine james) with the right password,loading up the offending page into any bog standard text editer, editing it, and saving it back, of course many websites today use simple PHP and a database setup so can be edited directly or even be made to take a simple email as its content and auto update from any email client again from anywere in the world.

 

while im impressed that the monkey did see fit to include master in there along with Prince,Princess,Baron,Sheikh and even Sheriff , its a shame they didnt include Esq/Esquire

Esquire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 8)

 

i have to ask though, given that the usual english understanding of Master being "boys under the age of 13 years old" do you/any CRA also have records of boys and indeed girls weather credit records/files or not ? are they referenced in any shape or form infact?, no really, i want to know.

Master (form of address) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[david.m]

Originally Posted by Robertxc

James, the CRAs maintain steadfastly that the bank is the data controller, and the CRA is the data processor. When an account is closed and there is no longer any commercial arrangement between the bank and the customer, who is the data controller for the personal data which remains with the CRA?

 

I'm sorry Robertxc, I really don't know the answer to this question. I'm not a Data Protection Act expert. Information Commissioners Office will know or if you contact our Consumer Help Service they will find out for you and let you know.

 

james,given that you state that your here to correct some mis-understandings and educate the readership in matters CRA related, im suprised that you request Robertxc take this general generic question to secure form/private email.

 

you say/imply you talk to your legal department every other day or so about some matters raised in this very thread, can you now do the same for Robertxc and post their well informed answer here for all to see and learn as you state please.

 

is it perhaps a case of you do not want your name linked to the answer?, rather like tony not wanting his name linked to the labour Loans for Lordships case.

[ppauls150]

Look at this. I thought that the CRAs say that they dont do automatic processes of our information? so what is this phrase then and how do they come up with decisions that they provide to companies on these issues then?

 

 

As part of the transaction the credit reference agency can provide added value services e.g. credit risk

 

assessment, identity authentication check, application of the bank’s own policy rules to define, for example,

the credit limit to be offered.

[Number6]

Look at this. I thought that the CRAs say that they dont do automatic processes of our information? so what is this phrase then and how do they come up with decisions that they provide to companies on these issues then?

 

 

 

Please post a link to this quote.

 

Pete

[JonCris]

Also ask them if they don't run on auto how come we can make a credit application at 2am & be accepted or rejected but when we phone at 2am the offices are closed until 9am. Marleys ghost I presume

[pford]

Please post a link to this quote.

 

Pete

 

comes from page 10 of this

 

http://www.eurim.org.uk/activities/pi/0407statusreport.pdf

 

 

another quote from same document

 

It is recognised that the question of consent in the context of a monopoly provider of benefit is an issue. The customer’s need for benefit makes it impossible to incorporate consent into the provision of the benefit; any consent given would be seen as having been given under duress and therefore invalid.

 

[Dipply75]

I am certainly subbing this one after what Experian are putting me through just now. The assertions that JamesJ made way at the beginning of the thread sounded so simple and reasonable - the perfect politicians statement:

 

On the consent issue: lenders' credit application forms include what we call 'fair obtaining clauses' which should appear next to where you sign and which obtain your consent to process data in the ways cited (the clauses will vary from lender to lender). This will include obtaining your permission for them to check the data on your credit report at one or more CRAs.

 

You'll find details of the guidance we give to lenders about this on our website, here:

 

Fair Obtaining Clauses | Experian UK

 

Before we allow lenders access to our database we will check that their clauses are satisfactory to make sure all the necessary consents are being obtained.

 

James

 

This along with Experians statements that if you dispute an entry, they will contact the lender to examine their data. They claim to provide an ACCURATE picture of a consumers financial standing - yet make no accuracy checks on the info provided? To me that is False Advertising.

 

Now, we have all been through the ridiculous game where you dispute the data - Experian contact the lender and the lender says....It was right. Thats it.

 

I challenge Experian to prove they actually checked these clauses,(over thousands of lenders and again when these clauses were updated/renewed), checked that agreements containing the said permissions above actually existed and were actually signed by the consumer (especially for a DCA or tracing companies access), and last but certainly not least, anytime they have actually checked PAPERWORK relating to a dispute as they state - and not just accepting the 'heresay' of the lender.

I have solid proof that this was not done on numerous occasions on mine, even though I was told they did. Does anyone have an example of actual checks being done?

 

I don't think so - these lenders, DCA's, tracing agents etc etc access our files WITHOUT having to prove consent or the info they leave, then mark them - yet WE have to do all the proving/disproving. Just as Tinkerbelle said:

 

Originally Posted by Tinkerbelle

How about the CRA's operating a policy of innocent until proven guilty, as opposed to guilty until proven inocent ?

 

Anyway - Experian/JamesJ - challenge is above - can you?

(BTW - I don't just mean the mainstream lenders - I mean all the different types of company you allow unlimited full access)

[Dipply75]

OOps, just noticed the last post date on this thread was in 2006 - is that me talking to myself again lol

[andrew1]

OOps, just noticed the last post date on this thread was in 2006 - is that me talking to myself again lol

 

...after a while on CAG we all started talking to ourselves!

[Dipply75]

lol, its no bad thing, I can laugh at my own jokes and I completely agree with me

[citizenB]

OOps, just noticed the last post date on this thread was in 2006 - is that me talking to myself again lol

 

LOL, I keep finding threads and posting on them only to discover there was a major time gap

 

lol, its no bad thing, I can laugh at my own jokes and I completely agree with me

 

Absolutely.

[Dipply75]

I thought this was a great thread, there are some real gems of info in here. Any of the OP's still working on the fight?

[tifo]

good thread, might help in the fight against CRAs. It seems to be a new thing here on CAG and even encouraged now.

[JonCris]

Definitely still fighting, go here for BF's excellent letter

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/149449-put-your-credit-reference.html#post1581179

[andrew1]

So, since 2006 nothings changed then if BF has had to write what is the fundimentals of what was being asked way back then?...

[Dipply75]

Bankfodders letter is a work of art, brown trousers time for CRA land?

 

I think folk are picking at the very threads of the CRA and 'rules' they have always implied are there and that they follow. They have operated behind smoke and mirrors all these years. Nothing seems to have changed since 2006 - just a lot of wee folk chipping away at a very big rock, but I do believe there is a groundswell and its a cumin....

 

To me there are invaluable snippets of info and some glaring holes uncovered across various threads that need collating, but thats a task and a half!

[andrew1]

Bankfodders letter is a work of art, brown trousers time for CRA land?

 

I think folk are picking at the very threads of the CRA and 'rules' they have always implied are there and that they follow. They have operated behind smoke and mirrors all these years. Nothing seems to have changed since 2006 - just a lot of wee folk chipping away at a very big rock, but I do believe there is a groundswell and its a cumin....

 

To me there are invaluable snippets of info and some glaring holes uncovered across various threads that need collating, but thats a task and a half!

 

I think you are right Dipply, BF's letter is like a 'bump' to this, there are many threads which I go back over and just like you did to find the last post way back over a year ago. This CRA effort has been going on for a long while and surelybonds started a great momentum too over s.10 & s.12 DPA. We in the Cabot Fan Club did exactly the same against the DCA's Cabot et al and the results of focussed attention like BankFodder has done in so many areas across the whole forum is really essential to highlight these issues and get them to take notice. The DCA's have begun spitting their toys out of the pram now although as you say, it's a job and a half though to plough through them all.

[Dipply75]

I now have a cabot thread of my own to start - will be joining up!

 

You made me think when you asked about the fundamentals - you are right. We need a list of the fundamental issues being fought - even right back to basics ie:

 

challenging the CRA 'right' to store, process and sell our data in the first place

 

Registering defaults without so much of a shred of proof

 

The only criteria for gaining access to anyones info is to simply have an account with the CRA and pay a fee

 

The CRA taking no responsibility for accuracy the data they publish

 

The Bank defaults!!!

 

I know there is more...but I think it would help folk?

[andrew1]

Welcome to the Cabot Fan Club take no sh1te from them !

[gemspan]

Hi there

 

Got to page 7 and decided to jump to the end to put my penny worth in!!! Hope you dont mind

 

I have no problem at all with organisations checking my credit file - if I give them written consent by way of signing an application form etc., - to do it. What I object to is that any tom, dick or harry or DCA can go in to check where I live WITHOUT my prior consent. I also have various organisations searching me without my consent. These leave footprints on my file which go against me - even although I didnt give them permission.

 

I have entries on my file that show defaults - where defaults should not be showing. Thes are all due to bank/credit card charges that I have claimed back. At the current time while we are waiting for the court to decide what the outcome of the test case is going to be, there are banks that are still charging me and this is showing on my credit report, even although I havent used the account and have registered a dispute letter with them. The CRAs dont seem to bother about this at all.

 

Basically, bank charges really messed up my credit report. Before the banks took away my overdraft without informing me, and then placing charges on my accounts, which then in turn made DDs bounce which meant further charges from other companies, I had an excellent credit history. Nothing has changed with me as a person, merely that the bank made a monumental error which has had severe consequences for me. The CRAs are not bothered that I can only now get a Vanquis credit card and a mortgage that is above the norm interest rate. This is due to inaccurate information held on my file.

 

I only hope that when this test case finally gets sorted out that the banks get heavily sued for compensation from the people who's lives they have wrecked because of their greed and thirst for obscene profits. I know that I will be taking them to court to clear my name!!

 

Kind regards

Gemspan:mad:

[andrew1]

I'd spend half an hour or so reading this...it'll aid your recompense argument

RICHARD DURKIN v. DGS RETAIL LIMITED+HFC BANK PLC, 26 March 2008, Sheriff J K Tierney Good luck.

 

 

Sarah

[1970]

Sarah, that was an amazing read.

 

Does this set a precident?

 

By that I mean claiming damages for the knock on effect of the defamation caused by false markers on a credit reference?

 

1970

[andrew1]

Sarah, that was an amazing read.

 

Does this set a precident?

 

By that I mean claiming damages for the knock on effect of the defamation caused by false markers on a credit reference?

 

1970

 

As far as I am aware yes, although I'd rather someone like JonCris or Car2403 .... confirmed this. It certainly is a case which can be referred to, it was set in a Scottish court, but applies to UK law overall as far as I am aware, but I am no legally trained person so best have that coming from those who know better than I.

Edited August 5, 2008 by andrew1
found out cars real number!

[thepalace1]

What a shame this thread just died, I was up all night reading this with interest, what a shame