Help!!! Lowells Cca

[bluebell boy]

I hope someone can help me..............

I received for over a year letter from Lowells requesting payments for a loan which is about 3 years old. To cut a long story short this loan fell very far down my list of priorities but i knew it should/had to be paid.

 

I have since seen that you can request signed original agreements to substantiate the loan via a CCA.

 

I sent the £1 CCA request on 8th Feb and didnt hear nothing back until today (they defaulted)

 

All I got was an unsigned agreement with a letter stating:

 

This is a true copy of the agreement your WOULD of signed (not the signed agreement)

 

I want to know what I shoudl do know..............

 

Any help would be appreciated

[PGH7447]

send the account in dispute letter

[Pinky69]

Can you scan it and post it on here, covering over your personal details. If it is just a blank agreement they are in default of your request.

[bluebell boy]

Thanks everyone....... have managed to find a dispute letter. Will scan the attachement when I get home. It looks like it is my agreement but no signature from me.

[bluebell boy]

Updte to letter:

 

Your original creditor has provided us with the attached true copy of the credit agreement you entered into with them, which they confirm you would of signed prior to the granting of credit to you. Under section 77/78 of the consumer credit act of 1974, we are not obliged to send you an exact copy of your signed agreement. We are only required to provide a true copy of what you would of signed.

 

Am i goiing mad or are they bluffing it as they dont have it? I cant find anywhere in the CCA 1974 to say that.

 

What they sent is one page (I will scan on here)which just shows amount, monthly, number of payments, term, APR and thats it..................... there aint even a space for a signature,

 

They also sent a ledger which shows the account at Barclays was closed on 26th April 2007 and the outstanding amount paid back in as a BRANCH RECOVERY so I guessing the bank wrote it off, Lowells bought it for next to nothing hence they are not pushing for court as it will cost more than they bought the loan for?

[harrassed senior]

DCAs are relying on a misunderstood Court Case at the end of last year, by saying that they only need to send an approximation of your Agreement. What they have conveniently tried to forget, or are trying to convince you has changed with the above case, is that they WILL still need to have the original to produce in Court to make your Agreement enforceable.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/240186-dissecting-manchester-test-case.html

[Pinky69]

If they need to resort to so-called reconstructions, it's a fair bet there isn't an original.

[bluebell boy]

Hi all, need a bit more help. Today i got a letter from Lowells saying:

 

We have been instructed by our client Lowell Portfolio to write in connection with your outstanding balance............

 

If I am not mistaken its the same company? Also they cant chase a debt that is still in disute as they havent supplied a true signed copy of my agreement as asked for?

 

Any ideas what to write back anyone?

[PGH7447]

nothing they are the same idiots, file and ignore or report to the oft

[Desperate Daniella]

Report them to FOS too. I had this kind of stuff from them last year and when I got FOS involved they went away. FOS will not get involved in the enforceability of your agreement but they will give you a reference number and take up the harassment side of it especially if you have been 'sold' when an account is in dispute.

[bluebell boy]

Hi, just an update. Letter received today saying:

Your comments have been noted and queried with Barclays Bank PLC who have advised us that the account was opened through on line banking. This is therefore. covered by the consumer Credit Act 1974 (electronic communications) order 2004 which came into force on December 31st 2004

 

The attached is a resonstituted copy of the agreement you entered into with them, which they confirm you would of signed prior to them granting credit to you.

 

I have no such signed agreement sent to me. What shall i do, how tro respond?

[MrTWS]

 

They also sent a ledger which shows the account at Barclays was closed on 26th April 2007 and the outstanding amount paid back in as a BRANCH RECOVERY so I guessing the bank wrote it off, Lowells bought it for next to nothing hence they are not pushing for court as it will cost more than they bought the loan for?

 

The problem is that this debt is not older than 6 years so you cannot deem it statue barred. However, one wonders why it took them (lowells) 4 months or so to actually reply to your request for CCA Request. The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 working days of a proper CCA request, whether you are the original creditor or not.

 

If you fail to comply with a legitimate request, the account enters a default situation and if you fail to comply after a further 30 days you commit an offence. They have failed to provide the requested documentation. That's it. They are demanding payment without any right to do so

[harrassed senior]

The extra 30 days was written out several months' ago, thus, unfortunately there is no longer an offence for this.

 

However, I am not sure on the issue of electronic online 'signatures' , so hopefully someone with good knowledge of this will be along soon.

[Desperate Daniella]

There are threads on here about electronic signatures, and you may find some helpful information on those. I don't have one of these agreements, but if they are saying that you would have been sent a paper agreement to sign after you 'ticked' online, then they need to produce it.

[cerberusalert]

If you opened the a/c online prior to Dec 2004 they would still have had to send you a CCA to sign.

[bluebell boy]

This is the last email sent to me today:

 

Further to my colleague’s letter, dated 15 October 2010, I understand that you remain dissatisfied with our response and therefore reiterate your requests as outlined in your original letter of 26 June 2010. Having reviewed our previous letter, I agree that some of your points remain unaddressed and that we were not explicit in our response. I would like to apologise for this and for the inconvenience this has caused and trust I am able to capture your concerns fully within this letter.

As previously highlighted, the above stated account was taken out via the internet and, as such, the requested signed agreement does not exist. It is not therefore possible to fulfil your request. However, by supplying you with a reconstituted copy, we have satisfied sections 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and therefore I must kindly advise you that your comments that we cannot enforce the debt are inaccurate.

The original terms and conditions of the agreement will underline the creditor’s use of your information, which includes providing your information to anyone they transfer their rights and duties to under the specific agreement. Upon purchasing this account, Lowell Portfolio I Ltd therefore acquired all rights and benefits, which includes the reporting to the relevant credit reference agencies.

We have supplied you with all requisite documentation and are aware of no reason for non-payment; I therefore must remind you of your responsibility to settle the outstanding balance and request that you contact us to make the necessary repayment arrangements. Your account will be placed on hold for a further 14 days to allow you sufficient time to respond before being returned to our collections process.

Their letter in June said: The attached is a reconstituted copy of the credit agreement you entered into with them, which they confirm you would of signed prior to the granting of credit.

Is it therfore still their onus to supply this??

[unclebulgaria67]

With online applications it is tricky, as you tick a box on screen, saying you agree to be bound by the Consumer Credit Act etc. When they send the details through, it would contain the correct details, but you would never be asked to actually sign the CCA and to send it back. They won't therefore have a copy of your CCA with a signature from you and can only provide a reconsitituted version. Over the years the creditor will have changed their online site, their processes and the documents they use. It would therefore be difficult, but not impossible, for Lowell to enforce the debt without the assistance of the creditor.

 

So if Lowell have bought the debt and Barclays are no longer willing to get involved, there is a good chance this will not go beyond having the default and receiving the threat letters. It is your gamble really, as to whether Lowell will chance their arm by going to court, using the information they have.

[bluebell boy]

Thanks for the advice. Two questions:

 

Will they have to prove it was an interet application?

 

The original letter states The attached is a reconstituted copy of the credit agreement you entered into with them, which they confirm you would of signed prior to the granting of credit

So one minute they say i would of signed something then they say i wouldnt of.

[IdaInFife]

With an online agreement they would normally send what looks like a computer print out witth the tick box.

 

can you scan up what you received?

[cucumber]

if the amount is less than £1K, then its doubtful they will try to take you to court. try askin for a DSAR, costs £10. then at least you will know what you are up against. also, if u do ask for a DSAR, make sure you put in te request that you want a copy of all phone calls and correspondence as well. lowell record ALL their phone calls, so should give u a copy.

[bluebell boy]

Hi All

 

I received this email today. Can anyone advise as it seems they wont send proof it was an internet application and say there was no signature even though a previous letter stated i would of signed:

 

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Original Creditor: Barclays Bank Plc

 

I write further to my email of 22 November 2010 and in response to your email of 20 November 2010. Please accept my apologies for the delay in issuing my response whilst I have reviewed this account in relation to your concerns in my capacity as Customer Focus Manager.

 

Under the provisions of section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 of which you refer, we have a duty to provide you with information in relation to credit agreements upon request. We have therefore previously provided you with a copy of the reconstituted copy of the executed agreement following your request.

 

The judgment in the case of RBS v McGuffick [6 October 2009] makes it clear that following any request made under section 77 or section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for information, a signed credit agreement need not be supplied by a Creditor and that a reconstituted copy of the original agreement is sufficient to satisfy any such request for information.

 

We have previously advised you that this particular account was taken out via the internet and therefore a signed credit agreement does not exist. In line with the above, we have therefore issued you with a reconstituted copy in our letter dated 23 June 2010.

 

I note your request for the provision of the electronic signature; however, we are not obligated to provide such document in order to satisfy your request under this act.

 

I have made arrangements for account statements to be provided from Barclays Bank Plc and these shall be forwarded to you upon receipt for your records. I have also requested the account Terms and Conditions, which will outline the creditor’s use of your information, including providing your information to anyone they transfer their account rights and benefits to.

 

We have previously advised you that we would like to work with you to agree a repayment plan that fully takes into consideration your current financial situation and I would like to reassure you that this remains the case. However, you have not responded to our requests to contact us so we can agree on an appropriate repayment arrangement. I must therefore respectfully advise you that if we do not hear from you in relation to agreeing a suitable repayment plan within the next 21 days, the account will be referred for external recovery, meaning it is our intention to instruct external agents to contact you on our behalf in connection with this matter.

 

Though I appreciate you may remain disappointed with my response, I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to you and trust I have been able to clarify our position in respect of this matter

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

Kind regards

 

 

Edited December 21, 2010 by IdaInFife
removed name

[IdaInFife]

did you send a sar as already suggested?

 

are you saying you did not open this account online?

 

when date are they saying the account was opened?

[bluebell boy]

Hi, i did send but what they sent was just a statment of y account. I have since found a template letter and re sent for what i now know they should send me. The account was opened in 2006 they say and sold to Lowells in 2009

 

I am not sure re the internet opening hence me asking if they can prove it (they say they dont need to)

 

What confuses me is one minute they say i owuld of signed something then when i ask to see it they say i didnt etc