Provident has got Credit Security Ltd coming to me door!

[willtheywontthey]

Good morning

 

When I received my first of these letters I freaked out. They really do make the individual feel on edge and useless. Basically they are designed to scare the @@@@ out of you so that you won;t think and will pick up the phone - and pay. That's what they are designed for. To scare you to pay them basically.

 

The DCAs also use BIG red type to add to the effect. Scare mongering. The same they do with doorstep letters and callers. Quite naughty how they're allowed to do all these things which basically are psychological warfare. It'll be drip drips of water on forehead if the DCAs could get their way... or the Abhu Ghraib subtle form of scare tactics.

 

As soon as you realise that DCAs use these tactics to scare you then you'll probably be prepared and not so frightened. That will then allow you to stop and think before rushing into any form of solution.

 

Notice the letter uses the wording 'MAY' so this or that. Does not say will. This is another trick they play with your mind.

 

That's not to say that you should not do something.

 

You need to get a CCA off them. Then if you can scan that on here people can help. Remember to edit out / erase / blank off any reference codes or dodgy barcodes.. and your personal details of course before scanning.

 

This site is so big and finding the right letter templates is no easy task. I can never find them either unless I use 'search'! They're mainly on the home page - resources at top and then Library (template).

 

CCA request:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter

 

You could also post at same time the doorstep go away letter to DCA (click on the link in the article):

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/591-dca-home-visit-if-you-receive-or-are-threatened-with-a-doorstep-visit-

 

 

It does give you peace of mind to send these off. You will need to also realise that DCAs don;t easily go away. They will send letters and threats etc and pass it on to another DCA to do the same. It's a merry go round especially IF the DCA thinks the cca is dodgy or even missing.

 

Then again some debts are enforceable - you need to see the cca. Send a letter asap. I'm afraid you wil need to spend some money on recorded / special so you can have proof and they cannot deny they got the request.

 

I am afraid I need to add that I do not know whether there is a different cca request / arrangement etc for loans compared to credit cards?? Perhaps somebody else on cag will assist with the differences to watch out for? I am unsure if the cca request needs to be edited etc if it's for a loan?

 

Some mention that you should go for a CPR request rather than a cca request. I get lost then!

[count orlok]

In my experience once they put Moorcroft on the case you've a good as won.

 

Not very good at maths are they, when i went to school (admitadly a very long time ago, so things may have changed) 250 - 420 did not equal 360. How can they justify this kind of interest, I would have thought it would even make some loan sharks look good!

[Bazooka Boo]

I think most CAGgers will have had the exact same missive posted to them by Moorcr@p.

 

Nice to still see that both they and their client do not wish to take legal action.

 

Moorcr@p can't take any legal action their deluded, and as for provident doing it, well as previously mentioned they damn well don't like too.

 

Win win I believe:wink:

[BuzzMan]

geriann, just going back to the beginning, I presume you signed some form of agreement when you took out the loan? Did the agreement have a cancellation notice? Before you were started being pursued by the debt collectors, did you ever get a default notice followed by termination notice?

[geriann]

i'm really sorry i haven't been on here for a while.

my depression and anxiety have been worse in the last few weeks.

 

since i sent the letter saying only contact me in writing no debt collectors have been to my door or phoned me.

 

i've only received 1 letter since i last posted...

on the 10th of june i received a letter from Moorcoft debt recovery ltd [dated 8th of june] about my 367.84 Provident debt.

 

here's what it said...

 

our records show that despite previous letters you have failed to make any payment to us and therefore your account has now been passed to our home collections division for action.

this may involve our local representative calling at our home address within the next few days to seek to assist you and to try to establish how you propose to settle the balance outstanding.

however in one last attempt to come to an arrangement to prevent more serious action our client has informed us that we are able to offer you a 30 percent discount from your outstanding balance. this means that if you are able to pay 257.49 off within the next 10 days [10 days from the date of the letter would be the 18th of june] we will not pursue the remaining balance of the debt.

we would emphasise that if no satisfactory agreement is made with us or our local representative you may leave uswith no alternative but to recommend to our client that solicitors commence legal proceedings against you without furthur notice.

it's good when DCA's offer a discount, but either way i haven't got the money.

as you can see i'm posting this on the morning of the 15th of july, so it's been almost a month since i got this letter and i've heard nothing since.

 

should i still send Moorcroft a CCA or CPR request?

i don't know what the difference is, but people have mentioned both.

 

BUZZMAN

yes i signed something when i took out the 250 loan. i still have it.

i know i was aload to cancel the loan within the first 7 days of signing, but obviously at that time i needed the loan and did intend paying provident the weekly payments.

i'll have to look through my paperwork to see if provident sent me a default and termination notice.

what happens if they did? or didn't?

[kiptower]

discount means they know they dont have a hope in hell of getting anything and dont have a signed agreement,

 

they wont take it to court because of the Provi's interest charge's , they know judges frown on then

 

make a cup of tea for yourself sit back and have a chuckle @ the whole thing now

 

just file it with the other paperwork you have AND DONT CONTACT THEM

 

if anything else arrives come back and tell us

 

Kip

[fuzzybobble]

I wouldn't worry about Moorcroft at all. They're all bluff and template letters, with scary headings like, "Pre-Court Division" etc.

 

Best to send the CCA request letter to Provident and see what they come back with. You'll find a good template letter in the forum library section.

[BuzzMan]

BUZZMAN

yes i signed something when i took out the 250 loan. i still have it.

i know i was aload to cancel the loan within the first 7 days of signing, but obviously at that time i needed the loan and did intend paying provident the weekly payments.

i'll have to look through my paperwork to see if provident sent me a default and termination notice.

what happens if they did? or didn't?

 

If they've not sent you a proper termination notice, they can kiss the debt goodbye, pretty much...

[jocko]

I was fiddling around with an adjusted template yesterday that might just fit your situation. Got a lot of help tweaking it from the good folks here.

 

It can be found in this thread.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/267794-fiddling-doorstep-template-bit.html

 

 

Send the cca first, wait 12 + 2 days then the account in dispute then possibly the linked letter if they cannot come up with the paperwork.

 

edit sorry assumed you had already cca'd and disputed.

[lord_tiger_putin]

They responded to all our CCA's with Signed Credit Agreements.

 

Can someone look at this post of me please?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/267937-provident-default-notices.html

[geriann]

Did the agreement have a cancellation notice? Before you were started being pursued by the debt collectors, did you ever get a default notice followed by termination notice?

 

i took out the loan in october 2008.

 

i got my first debt collector letter [from Wiseman debt collectors] in april 2009.

the letter says they are the debt collector division of Provident.

 

i got a default notice [from C. K. Edrupt and Co. solicitors] in june 2009.

i got more letters from those soliciotrs in july, august and september.

 

from october 2009 i started to get letters from debt colector agencies...ones that are not part of Provident.

 

nothing i've got says 'termination notice' on it.

is that different to a default notice?

 

btw since my last post on this thread i've not had any letters from anyone about this debt.

[BuzzMan]

How did you get the loan? I think you may have mentioned it before but I can't seem to find it. Did someone come to your door and offer you a personal loan or did you fill out an application and sent it?

[dadofholly]

i took out the loan in october 2008.

 

i got my first debt collector letter [from Wiseman debt collectors] in april 2009.

the letter says they are the debt collector division of Provident.

 

i got a default notice [from C. K. Edrupt and Co. solicitors] in june 2009.

i got more letters from those soliciotrs in july, august and september.

 

from october 2009 i started to get letters from debt colector agencies...ones that are not part of Provident.

 

nothing i've got says 'termination notice' on it.

is that different to a default notice?

 

btw since my last post on this thread i've not had any letters from anyone about this debt.

 

Hi Geriann

 

To be honest i would just keep on ignoring their letters - they have no intention of taking you to court.

 

Even if it did come to them attempting to take you to court there case is probably full of holes - and as people have stated on here they are not liked in the county courts.

 

You may occasionaly get different letters from other companies trying to claim the money - just file them all in the bin.

 

And of course - if any company does decide to try and take you to court - provide the details here where the good people on this site will help you shoot them down in flames.

[geriann]

BUZZMAN

i think someone came to my door.

[dadofholly]

BUZZMAN

i think someone came to my door.

 

? - could have been someone trying to get you to change electric supplier.

 

Keep a copy of the doorstep letter handy - and give it to everyone who claims to be from a DCA.

 

Dont speak to them - just hand them the letter and close the door.

[Bazooka Boo]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/590-letter-used-when-a-dca-threatens-a-doorstep-visit-

 

Print that off and keep it in an envelope by your front door, just in case, and always always remember, they have no legal right or permission to be on your property, so once they are told to clear orf, if they remain call the Police 999 and report them.

[geriann]

Thanks BAZOOKA BOO.

 

i got a letter on the 29th of Sept'...dated the 26th of sept'...from Moorcroft about the Provident debt.

 

it said:

 

I am dissapointed to note that despite our letters and attempted personal calls by our local representative no agreement has been reached regarding the balance outstanding of 367.84p.

Howvere in our last attempt to come to an arrangement to prevent legal action our client has informed us that we are able to offer you a 50 percent discount from your outstanding balance.

This means that if you are able to pay 183.92p within the next 14 days we will not pursue the remaining balance of the debt.

They haven't phoned me and as far as i know they haven't visited my house either.

if they have visited they left no note to say so.

 

i assume 'within 14 days' means by the 10th of October because that's 14 days after the date of this letter. is that rght?

 

I would take up thier offer, but i have no way of getting 183.92p by then.

 

even worse...i'm going on holiday from he 10th->27th of october...against my will. not only wll that mean i wont be around if i get a letter or visit, but during that time my dad will come to my house every 2 days to look after my cats, so will read any letters they [or any other debt accounts] send me. even worse he could bethere if they visit my house.

Will Moorcroft really visit me?

do you think they visit while i'm on holiday?

 

are there rules about when a DCA can come to my house?

for instance...can only visit on certain days, between certain times?

 

any advice would be gratefully received.

[Bazooka Boo]

Yes there are rules:

should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make such an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v Sheppard & Short Ltd [1959] 2 QB 384. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and, if you do so, you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

 

Send them the doorstep letter before you go if it will put you at ease, but it is very rare for any knuckle dragging gibbon to turn up, they really DO NOT have ANY legal powers, knowledge, or right to be on someone elses property demanding money, the only people with a legal right to be on your property without your say so is, the postman, Police/Amb/Fire, you have had to give your dad permission to come to your house whilst you are away haven't you? So quite why these officious fools think they have any right to turn up unnanounced is beyond me.

THEY HAVE ZERO LEGAL RIGHT TO BE ON YOUR PROPERTY

 

If there is a blue moon whilst your away and some knuckle head turns up whilst your dad is there, then they cannot disclose the reason for being there, as this is another guideline they will have ignored.

 

The fact that Moorcr@p have offered you a 50% discount is indicative of them having no enforceable documents to pursue this legally through a court, if they did, then they would be demanding the full amount, and they would have done so from the beginning, onmce you had failed to stump up the cash they would have taken you to court and won with costs on top, BUT they haven't WHY? Because they like to bully and intimidate people who they think know no better and are as unqualified and unneducated as they.

Relax. I wouldn't even begin to attempt to decipher their pre school letter, it makes no odds, it means nothing.

[Bazooka Boo]

Don't you just hate it when a panda has your last malteser....

Edited October 5, 2010 by Bazooka Boo
Duplicate post....

[geriann]

If there is a blue moon whilst your away and some knuckle head turns up whilst your dad is there, then they cannot disclose the reason for being there, as this is another guideline they will have ignored.

 

BAZOOKA

i didn't know they couldn't tell anyone what they want to speak to me about.

i was worried they'd tell my dad they came to collect a debt.

my dad has no experience with DCA's, so he'd panic and pay up on the spot...then yell and completly freak out at me.

 

for whatever reason i've had no letters [or visits] from any DCA about the Provident debt since i last post.

over 4 months of hearing nothing.

 

although i have received a letter from Greenwoods Personal Credit...i think they're a sister company to provident...on the 7th of February.

at first i thought it was a adverttising letter asking if i wanted a loan...you know the sort that you get every so often.

i almost through it away, but i noticed it mentioned my provident debt.

 

here's what the letter said...

 

on the 4th of february provident personal credit appointed greenwood personal credit to collect your outstanding provident debt of 367.84p.

a friendly local agent will call to your home to discuss repayment options with you.

with greenwood you take out an interest free loan to repay Provident a reduced amount of your debt. this offer is only available until the 25th of february.

the debt with provident will be settled upon you entering the credit agreement with greenwood.

your provident debt - 367.84p

reduced by 10 percent - 330 pound greenwood loan

no extra charges or interest

weekly payment if you repay greenwood loan within 25 weeks - 13.20p

weekly payment if you repay greenwood loan within 50 weeks - 6.60p

a greenwood agent will contact you within a few days.

if you do not hear from an agent within the next few days call us.

conpare the price of home collected and other cash loans available in your area at www.lenderscompared.org.uk

 

what do you guys think?

is this a good or bad thing to do?

i don't really want to take out any loans...esp' doorstep ones.

 

of course now i'm worried a greenwood agent could turn up at my house at any time.

i've got repay men at my house from 11am 8th feb'. i don't know how long they'll be here, but i'm not quite so bothered about them.

i've got my parents at my house sometime between 1-3pm 8th feb'...they could be at mine for a shorter or longer amount of time depending on the repairmen situation.

i def' don't want my parents hearing/seeing a loan company talking about a debt repayment plan.

do you think they'll come while my parents are around?

i wonder if they might phone me instead? or at least phone to set up a meeting?

 

the phone number on the greenwood letter is 0800 015 7113...open 8am-8pm monday-friday.

should i call them to say no? or yes?

 

i really hate this, i'm back to losing sleep again.

[Happyhippy1959]

Go and enjoy a cup of tea or stronger. As Bazooka say's the Zoo's have not had any escaped primate's reported so it is very unlikely they will turn up. As for provident, I have numerous friends who have had a loan off these sharks and guess what,,, they never ever paid them back after working out the interest. And guess what... never ever went to court.... So rest easy. Offer Moorcrap a £10.00 full and final and then ignore. Some cheek

 

Great reply letter on the I&E request Bazooka, going to use that one

[Bazooka Boo]

Physical/psychological harassment

2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

b. pressurising debtors to sell property, to raise funds by further

borrowing or to extend their borrowing

j. acting in a way likely to be publicly embarrassing to the debtor either

deliberately or through lack of care, for example, by not putting

correspondence in a sealed envelope and putting it through a letterbox,

thereby running the risk that it could be read by third parties.

 

Send a copy of that letter with the evidence that they ignore the OFT DC Guidelines to the OFT&TS via http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/contact

[geriann]

Do not take out any loans with anyone & should anyone turn up (highly unlikely) then unless they have been sent by a court, they have no legal power whatsoever & can simply be told to get lost - ring the police if they refuse.

thanks Tony.

 

As for provident, I have numerous friends who have had a loan off these sharks and guess what,,, they never ever paid them back after working out the interest. And guess what... never ever went to court.... So rest easy. Offer Moorcrap a £10.00 full and final and then ignore.

thanks Happyhippy, that has reassured me alot.

 

Send a copy of that letter with the evidence that they ignore the OFT DC Guidelines to the OFT&TS via http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/contact

thanks Bazooka.

i never would have thought of doing that.

the unfair business practices link is very interesting.

 

in my exerience the DCA's are guilty of...

 

2.2 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. use of official looking documents intended or likely to mislead debtors as to their status, for example, documents made to resemble court claims. [when they put headings on letters about pre-court/litigation division]

c. those contacting debtors not making clear who they are, who they work for, what their role is, what the purpose of the contact is. [when they phone]

f. contacting debtors at unreasonable times. [depends what they call unreasonable? i've had calls as late as 9.30pm, especially when it's a machine]

2.3 Those contacting debtors must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their authority and/or the correct legal position. [hmm...they do threaten scary things that since being on here i've discovered they can't actually do]

2.4 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

b. falsely implying or stating that action can or will be taken when it legally cannot, for example, referring to bankruptcy or sequestration proceedings when the balance is too low to qualify for such proceedings or claiming a right of entry when no court order to this effect has been granted. [i don't know what sequestration means? but they're definatley done the others things it says]

 

2.5 Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a. contacting debtors at unreasonable times and at unreasonable intervals [yeah frequent calls, esp' those machine ones]

b. pressurising debtors to sell property, to raise funds by further borrowing or to extend their borrowing [i'm shocked they want me to take out a loan]

c. using more than one debt collection business at the same time resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different parties [i don't think i've had that, but the handing my debt around several different DCA's gets very confusing]

f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments or to increase payments when they are unable to do so [yes - even when i told Lowell...who currently handle my littlewoods debt...that i live on single person income support with a mortgage/etc they still wanted the total of 450.01p or a monthly payment of 90-150 pound...that works out to roughly 7-11 days of my total monthly income support:!: AND they would only accept monthly payments by credit/debit card or direct debit. i don't have any cards as that could lead to more debt and i don't trust DCA's with my bank details. i don't see why they wont take cash/giro?]

g. making threatening statements or gestures or taking actions which suggest harm to debtors [does harm to my psychological wellbeing count?]

j. acting in a way likely to be publicly embarrassing to the debtor either deliberately or through lack of care, for example, by not putting correspondence in a sealed envelope and putting it through a letterbox, thereby running the risk that it could be read by third parties. [i assume when they leave those little notes to say they've visited count? they do state thier company name on them. i can't remember if ages ago a DCA asked my neighbour if i lived at my address and if/when i was in. of course there's the embarrassment of someone banging on your door. there's also the issue that i lived on a 3rd/4th floor maisonette. sometimes the postman puts my mail through my actual door, but mostly it's left at the 1st floor entrance door. which anyone can enter if it's unlocked. of course the neighbours i share the entrance with can always see my mail. not to mention the fact my parents could see the letters/notes]

 

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

g. failing to refer on to the creditor reasonable offers to pay by instalments. [hmm...i bet Lowell wont tell Littlewoods catalogue that i offered small monthly repayments by cash]

j. requiring an individual to supply information to prove they are not the debtor in question, for example, driving licences, passports, full name, date of birth, signatures. [i didn't know they couldn't ask for ID to prove you're not the person they're looking for. without ID surely anyone could say they're not the person in question?]

 

2.10 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

d. applying unreasonable charges, for example, charges not based on actual and necessary costs. [Provident interest rates are definatley unreasonable]

 

2.12 Examples of unfair practices are:

b. visiting a debtor when it is known they are vulnerable, for example, when a doctor's certificate has been provided stating that the debtor is ill.

c. continuing with a visit when it becomes apparent that the debtor is distressed or otherwise vulnerable, for example, it becomes apparent that the debtor has mental health problems.

[so i could stop home visits if i prove i'm mentallly ill/vulnerable/distressed...shame i can't stop everything the DCA's do/send]

e. not leaving a property when asked to. [CAG taught me this one]

g. not giving adequate notice of the time and date of a visit. [they NEVER give a time or date when they'll turn up at your door...it seems like adding the word adequate makes anytime/day ok for a 1st visit]

[Happyhippy1959]

You can relax now geriann you are in safe hands. Feel the load lifted from your shoulders, Once these clowns know your not going to be intimidated they will crawl back to here cess-pits that's why never talk to the muppets everything in writing so you can show the guy's on here and they can advise your best course of action......

[geriann]

Send a copy of that letter with the evidence that they ignore the OFT DC Guidelines to the OFT&TS via http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/contact

 

they don't have an address listed.

i'd have to use thier compliant form -> https://ssl.datamotion.com/form.aspx?co=700&frm=complainform&ri=EE&to=eecd