Let go without notice, paid short

[meagain]

Last month I was let go, without notice, and without advance indication. Despite asking several times, at no point did I receive a written statement of particulars, and I have still not received any written statement in relation to my dismissal. This was carried out first thing of a morning, and I have been paid only up to the previous day. For what it's worth, prior to dismissal, none of the salary payments were on the expected dates - the first was a couple of days early, the boss's screw-up over a merger had him running around the town paying cheques across bank counters; the second payment "early for Christmas" eventually cleared on Christmas Eve' the third payment went over a week early due to the merger now going in the opposite direction and the "old-new" company wanting to "spend itself out to ease the transition". I worked off a glorified coffee table, and less than a week after two desks finally arrived, both of the people sat at them were gone (I know nothing of the other's departure).

 

After some discussion with the lovely folk at ACAS, and a family member who holds a position in the local branch of their union, I figure I'm owed whatever my notice period would be, and whatever leave is outstanding.

 

I remember that with civil claims typically you make the other side aware of your intention to start proceedings in court as early as possible. Do I write a pointed letter demanding a non-specific sum of money with a threat to go to an Employment Tribunal from the outset, or do I omit that and write something smoother?

 

On a side note, someone has suggested using the threat of costs to get a better settlement - foregoing any uplift that the ET might award, and any costs I might claim, instead getting a statement that there was a "lack of suitable work", which would allow me to gain access to funding for training (and potentially save them from having to get their solicitors involved) - there are opportunities on the horizon that may be beneficial to me, but I don't have a hope of funding them myself (and neither am I interested in approaching the [problematic] that advertise on TV and in the press).

[BeauBrummie]

Hi meagain,

 

How long did you work for the employer?

 

Edit - Sorry reading between the lines it is only about 3 months.

 

I am assuming there is no question of any discrimination of any kind involved.

 

So you will be entitled to 1 week of notice pay and pro rata 5.6 weeks of holiday pay.

 

As the employment was less 12 months the employer does not have to give you a reason for dismissal.

 

It is my understanding that costs in an ET do not get awarded against the losing side. Each party stands its own.

 

To take this type of case to an ET you would first of all need to exhaust all avenues of redress against your decision with the company, such as a written appeal to the decision that has been taken against you.

 

 

Beau

Edited March 26, 2010 by BeauBrummie

[meagain]

My concern there is that they may push things to the 3m-1d point, and the constant reorganisation leaves me wondering exactly which company I should be addressing. Presumably I can call it "3 months continuous" and take on "the company or its apparent successor", and name the director responsible citing phoenix concerns? (I was effectively paid by three different companies during those three months)

 

If the "chat" was had on a Tuesday morning, on what day does the period actually start? I was paid up to the Monday, and I am assuming that the notice would not start until the Wednesday, ending the following Wednesday.

 

The most important thing, should I make the written approach brief and polite, or should I be threatening the ET from the outset?

[honeybee13]

Hi meagain. If you were transferred between companies, I would think it logical that your service would be continuous. I don't suppose you've had any TUPE paperwork?

 

HB

[meagain]

The only paperwork I've had during the entire period was a payslip in November, my final payslip for February and my P45.

[meagain]

The only paperwork I've had during the entire period was a payslip in November, my final payslip for February and my P45.

[R&J]

Due to the short legnth of your service it looks as though your only real option might be through the TUPE regulations.

[meagain]

While this is all well and good, mostly I'm hearing the same things the folk at ACAS told me, and almost none of it is answering questions that I need answered to make any progress towards getting the money that I'm owed.

 

1. Should be approach be pleasant, or should I be threatening to go to ET straight away?

 

2. Can I name the director in addition to the various company names?

 

3. Is it worth negotiating with that director directly to achieve the result outlined in the first post? (He's seemed reasonable the entire time - I suspect incompetence rather than malice)

 

Additionally:

 

4. I am working on the basis that since I don't qualify for any assessment of fairness, the relevant event for limitation is the payment at the end of the month (being the first point as which I would notice that something was wrong). Right?

 

5. Should I figure out how much I'm owed, or leave them to do it and push forward if they get it wrong?

Edited March 26, 2010 by meagain
+5

[R&J]

What job were you doing, how much money were you earning?

 

All of this will be relevant to your position if you go against your employer.

[meagain]

I need to know why that's relevant before disclosing it publicly.

[honeybee13]

meagain, please be gently with us, we're doing our best. You wouldn't expect us to jump in with advice without checking the facts as far as we can, I'm sure.

 

I will try to answer the questions I am able to, but you may need to go back to ACAS with extra questions.

 

Sorry if this post crosses with anyone else's.

 

HB

 

1. I think you are best placed to understand the people involved and what might work, but my own inclination would be to keep it factual and then at the end of the letter, mention that if a satisfactory resolution is not achieved by [a week or two?], then you will not hesitate to take the matter further.

 

Given the legal position, it's not certain you'd qualify for an ET, is it?

 

2. I guess you can name who you like. Is there an HR department or someone responsible for HR? That could be a good place to start, then you could ask them to pass it to the relevant person asap if they can't deal with it.

 

3. Yes, if you trust him. But try to get something in writing.

 

4. Don't understand Event for Limitation, sorry.

 

5. I think you should know how much to expect, but you don't need to tell them what you think the figure is. But if they make you an offer, you'll want to check it anyway, won't you? I would also ask them how they arrived at the figure.

[meagain]

Given the legal position, it's not certain you'd qualify for an ET, is it?

How do you come to that conclusion? Unless what you're suggesting is that I might have to go through the County Court instead. My understanding from the advice I've already received is that there's little if any doubt that I've been dismissed unlawfully (not the same as an unfair dismissal - which I definitely have no claim to).

 

2. I guess you can name who you like. Is there an HR department or someone responsible for HR? That could be a good place to start, then you could ask them to pass it to the relevant person asap if they can't deal with it.

I'm referring to the potential legal proceedings - i.e. bringing the claim in ET/CC against the director as a co-defendant.

 

4. Don't understand Event for Limitation, sorry.

There's a limitation period of "three months less a day" at ET, rather less generous than the six years in CC. The three weeks from being told I'm done and actually getting paid would put a serious dent in this if the period starts at the former.

 

5. I think you should know how much to expect, but you don't need to tell them what you think the figure is. But if they make you an offer, you'll want to check it anyway, won't you? I would also ask them how they arrived at the figure.

I've already figured out roughly how much I'm short by, just wanted to know whether or not to tell them or let them make an offer first.

 

My first draft at a letter is this:

 

I notice from the recent payslip provided that there is a significant shortfall in the final salary payment made to be at the end of February 2010. I was dismissed on xx February, however, you have only paid be up to xx February (the day before) - you have not paid me for my notice period or any outstanding leave. In the absence of a written agreement specifying a greater amount, this would be period of one week commencing the day after it was delivered, and the outstanding leave from the pro rata entitlement of 7 days.

 

I now require you to pay the outstanding amount within 14 days. If you fail to do so, I will not hesitate in taking further action to secure the payment of this money via County Court or Employment Tribunal.

 

Thoughts?

Edited March 26, 2010 by meagain

[BeauBrummie]

This has become far to complicated, and people on here are only trying to help - I work in HR and this would be somewhat my professional opinion based upon the info you have given to us on here.

 

I am sorry that you have been dismissed - but if you have less than 12 months service with an employer you have less legal rights than post 12 months service -unless there is sexual or racial descrimination involved.

 

So if a company want to dismiss you without giving reason they can but they still should give your statutory rights unless gross mis conduct is the issue where a company can legally dismiss without notice. It will be in your T&C's of employment.

 

You are entitled to receive 1 week of notice pay for your length of service and pro rata holiday pay that has been accrued but unpaid - if there is an issue if continuous service ie different companies have employed you then TUPE will come into play and your final employer is the one that has the liability under TUPE regs. You should be paid for the day (or at least the hours you were there) that you were dismissed. I suggest this would be best practice for the employer but then some employers are not so forthcoming.

 

You will not get anywhere with an ET and I would suggest that although you may use it as threat to an un-initiated employer, to actually follow through with your threat you will require alot of hoops to go through and cost to you - is it worth it??

 

My suggestion is to write to whoever you believe your last employer was and firmly ask for your statutory rights to be honoured. You could give them a time limit to give you a satisfactory answer say 7 days and if not threaten that you will be seeking legal advice.

 

 

Beau

[R&J]

What Brummie said would also be my advice to you.

 

 

Mark

[meagain]

This has become far to complicated, and people on here are only trying to help

Then I would appreciate it if people would stop telling me stuff that I already know. You'll find these choice words in my original post:

After some discussion with the lovely folk at ACAS, and a family member who holds a position in the local branch of their union, I figure I'm owed whatever my notice period would be, and whatever leave is outstanding.

I have already dealt with most of the legal aspects, so I don't need to be told about the length of service. What I'm focused on here is getting the money I'm owed - it may only be in three digits but in my current circumstances that's something I can't afford to be without.

 

My suggestion is to write to whoever you believe your last employer was and firmly ask for your statutory rights to be honoured.

So, in other words, your advice is to write a letter. Which is the very thing I came here to get help with.

[BeauBrummie]

Deleted

Edited March 26, 2010 by BeauBrummie

[Bollotom]

Well, I guess no-one is any the wiser. Hope you come back and let us know the result

[honeybee13]

I posted a suggested basis for a letter, to be embellished and adapted to suit your circumstances.