What happens now: Income and Expenditure?

[Sunlight]

After a long battle with Moorcroft Egg gave up with them and have passed my account onto ARC Europe.

 

They have come up with my CCA which I know is a true copy as I have the original. I have checked the forum and it is enforceable it appears as it has all the requirements.

 

They have offered me a settlement figure which is twice what I can afford so they now want an income and expenditure. This would be OK but I am on a return to work programme which is paying me my full salary at the moment. However, I have been off sick all week and it is looking like I will have little if any income in the future as I have a review meeting in the next couple of weeks.

 

I am concerned my income is too high at present but this will not last long at all. I will most likely work 2 days a week in the future and not 5.

 

I asked them if they wanted a doctors letter but they said this not necessary.

 

Please advise. Thanks

[uptoeyeballs]

Hi Sunlight,

 

Remember ARC are not entitled to I&E, only a court can require that.

 

I would do a bit of reading around, but from what I've read, they use these to gather all sorts of of information about you and are generally just out to get you.

 

I would be very wary of trying to negotiate with them.

 

Do they have a CCJ?

Do you have any letters about defaults, termination, assignment?

 

uteb

[dx100uk]

They have offered me a settlement figure which is twice what I can afford so they now want an income and expenditure.

 

as advised your PERSONAL financial details are NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS

......

NEITHER is your STATE OF HEALTH.

 

 

if they are offering a settlement figure , that means something is not right somewhere.

DCA's will never offer a discount if they can force the whole sum.

 

you say the agreement is enforceable, so it must be something else.

 

have you PPI on the card or loads of unlawful fees like late payment, over-limit etc???

 

you need to find out the weakness and exploit it.

 

dx

[debt4get]

i agree with dx...have you posted the agreement so it can be verified as enforceable?

[Sunlight]

I haven't posted the agreement up. I will get my husband to scan it in tomorrow. I think they may be willing to settle as the debt is so old? I have asked for a list of payments I have made on several occasions as the amount of the debt kept changing when Moorcroft were dealing with the account. It started at £14,000 then went down to about 13. Then the next letter said just over 10K. They added on interest of £3000 when I asked for a breakdown then it seemed to just disappear. I never got an answer.

 

When I did a Subject access request on Moorcroft I got some stuff back, then next thing I know the account is with ARC. I hadn't even had the CCA when they transferred it to another DCA. That only came later. I got one from Egg and one from the DCA (ARC). Funny thing was Egg said in their letter that they did not need to provide my signature, although the CCA they sent had it on. They also said I CCA request was not a reason to withhold payment although I was in dispute for ages. They have sent me a letter asking for my old signature and my new one as I have married but I did not send them it back.

 

I am a bit wise but only through this website. I am a novice really and still get stressed when letters arrive. I bought Truecall to prevent them calling now!

 

I have just got my credit file clear after six long years as this default has dropped off my records. I really can't afford to have a CCJ as I am getting on now and would like a mortgage someday if my health improves.

 

Bottom line is they say they will settle for £6K but I can only afford 3K. I wrote offereing them this as a settlement which prob wasn't a great idea.... They said they would consider this with a I and E. Trouble is I won't be earning this money for much longer! AH!!!!!

Edited March 27, 2010 by Sunlight

[harrassed senior]

It might be that this account is approaching Statute Barred? how long since you last made a payment?

[Sunlight]

It has been less than six years. I think I made the last payment in August last year. Not long after I CCA Moorcroft. Moorcroft never passed this on to Egg and just kept harassing me. I finally got the CCA in January after I approached Egg direct.

[Sunlight]

They are harassing me to reply by 31 March.

[harrassed senior]

If you are worried by the date for a reply, I would suggest just dropping a line saying that you have only just received their letter and need a few more days to respond. You could say that you will give them a full response by, say 8th April, bearing in mind the Easter Holidays. In my opinion the only reason they give a date is that the following day is the day they employ the button pusher to start printing the next set of threat letters!!!

 

You state that this is an old account, can you give a rough date that this was taken out, the reason I ask is that although they may have sent an identical 'Agreement' to the one you have, this still has to be complete in all items, and many Agreements issued before 2006 were faulty and therefore unenforceable.

 

It will be great to see what you can get hubby to post up for us.

[Sunlight]

He's doing the scanning now!

 

It was taken out in July 2002. I have taken my name and address off and signatuure , loan no etc. Hope that's it! Now scanning away. You can hardly read the thing though....

[Sunlight]

Could someone please advise? Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

Too small what do I do?

[fuzzybobble]

scan them at 100dpi save as a jpeg file, edit personal info using the paint program that comes with windows. Then upload to Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket and post the links they provide on the forum. This will solve the problem of them being too small to read.

[Sunlight]

I hope I've done this right. Here goes

 

[Sunlight]

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/georgiaian/eggnew2001.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/georgiaian/egg2001.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/georgiaian/egg3001.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/georgiaian/egg4001.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/georgiaian/egg5001.jpg

[fuzzybobble]

Looks to me like they have added a few things. Funny how the vital part of the CCA is a really bad unreadable photocopy and the others are almost perfect. Looks to me like they have a reconstructed agreement and not the original at all.

 

May be worth writing and asking. Is this a true copy of the agreement or a reconstruction. Recent OFT guidelines say they must tell you this information.

 

I've had this argument a few times and often they refuse to answer, and instead try and bluff you. Once they know you have worked out they have no real CCA, then ask them to take you to court, and I know they won't do so. Instead they willl bounce it around loads of DCA's until it's Statute Barred.

[Sunlight]

Its interesting you say that as I thought that it didn't look right. Also I had some strange correspondence from Egg.

 

Firstly I sent them a copy of my marriage certificate and recent utility bill with address on. They said their records had been updated in a letter. Two days later they sent a "copy of signed creddit agreement." On the same day they sent a letter telling me they could not amend my details as they needed sight of both my old and new signatures (I did not provide them!)

 

When I complained the CCA was unreadable and I needed another copy I received another letter saying "the documents provided constitue a true copy of the agreement. This conisistes of a copy of the original terms and conditions of your agreement, together with the original interest rates applicable at the time of your application. The copy does not include a signature box or date of signature in accordance with regulation 3 (2) (b) (ii) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983, as permitted by theses regulations we are not required to provide them."

 

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/georgiaian/letterdated240210.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/georgiaian/letterdated240210p2.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/georgiaian/letterdated150110001.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/georgiaian/letterdated150110cAenclosed001.jpg

 

Strange thing is it did include the signature which looks like signature but the date is the day before the date I have on my agreement.

 

I asked for a breakdown of payments I had made to the account and it seems they are unable to provide them. I wanted these due to the ever changing amount of the debt. They said:

 

"We have provided you with ...outstanding balance and referred to the appropriate clauses of the terms and conditions. These enable you to calculate when payments fall due to be paid under the agreement and the basis for calculation the amount of the payment" This is useless as when the account defaluted I did not pay regular payments and the amounts changed over the years!

 

To end with they said:

 

"We would like to remind you that a section 77 does not entitle you to withold your regular monthly payments : as such you should continue to make your monthly payments in accordance with the terms of your agreement."

 

They went on to say I had six months to complain to Financial Ombudsmon.

 

What do you think?

Edited March 28, 2010 by Sunlight
spelling errors

[fuzzybobble]

Sounds likely that they don't have an enforceable CCA so are fobbing you off with copies and trying to pass them off as the real thing. If they had one it wouldn't be a problem to photocopy it and send it to you.

 

The OFT have some new guidelines coming out soon where they have to tell you if the documents are a true copy or a reconstructed agreement.

 

Last time I got a CCA like yours I told them it wasn't acceptable as it wasn't a true copy and I told them I wouldn't correspond with them again or make any payments until they sent a true copy of the agreement. That was 2 years ago and I haven't heard a thing from them since.

[Sunlight]

Is it true what they say about:

 

"not having to provide a signature or date of the signature as Regulation 3(2)(b)(ii) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983: as permitted by these regulations we are not required to provide them" ??

[cerberusalert]

I can't read anything on the signed document but unless it contains the prescribed terms, credit limit, repayment terms, APR%, right to cancel etc., it would be unenforceable. Those T&Cs with it are a red herring.

 

As it's illegible they haven't fulfilled your CCA request.

[Sunlight]

The first page I posted had this information on it I think.

 

There are two pages to the agreement. This first one says Personal Loan agreement for and the second which is unreadable has the terms and conditions on I think and the signature.

 

Where would I stand in a court? I am terrified of this.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Sunlight
personal info included in error

[cerberusalert]

I can't see the right to cancel in either of the first two pages.

[The GodMother]

In a earlier post you have said it has dropped off your credit file. Are you sure that you have not had it trasfered to a DCA as they do this?

 

Also i cant read it so i would say uneforcable IMO ask them for a legable copy.

[Fred Bassett]

Also, you said you started paying them again and that it was a very old debt. Was there a clear period of 6 years or more during which you didn't pay them and didn't acknowledge the debt?

 

Fred