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Egg Credit Card / Apex and Egg Agreement Confusion

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I took out an egg credit card on 16th August 2003. This is one of 3 debts I have where I used the money to refurb a house - stupidly!

 

One thing that always annoyed me was the fact they applied the monthly interest to my account before taking my payments into consideration - even if I had paid cleared funds earlier than the date the interest was applied; surely that's wrong?

 

However, Egg were as good as gold when we struggled last year and my income tax went up by over £400 per month and so did the mortgage. I settled on an interest free period and a repayment plan which we seemed to both be happy with. They extended this agreement for a further 6 months and then I get a letter from Apex in January.

 

Apex were calling constantly and threatened to send 'local collectors' to the door. Thanks to this site, I wrote to them using one of the templates in a thread and they wrote back saying they had referred the matter back to Egg. At no time have I had any communication from Egg saying that I should deal with Apex - in fact, they have never mentioned Apex and I continue to pay the originally agreed reduced amount each month by standing order.

 

As part of the action I took as a result of this site, I submitted a CCA request and now have my agreement back. This is where the real confusion starts! My agreement is attached but I have today received another letter from Apex saying:

 

Please find attached your copy of agreement as requested. Please now contact the office as a matter of urgency on 0844 556 0274 to resolve this matter.

 

I have still to receive a notification of transfer from Egg and they continue to take my money every month! Furthermore, how can Apex get my agreement from Egg - isn't this protected by the Data Protection Act?

 

Having read the forum tonight I think I have a strong case to tell Apex to take a running jump; maybe Egg also?

 

I would appreciate any input, as what I have read since January is amazing work.

Egg Agreement Censored.pdf

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I took out an egg credit card on 16th August 2003. This is one of 3 debts I have where I used the money to refurb a house - stupidly!

 

One thing that always annoyed me was the fact they applied the monthly interest to my account before taking my payments into consideration - even if I had paid cleared funds earlier than the date the interest was applied; surely that's wrong?

 

However, Egg were as good as gold when we struggled last year and my income tax went up by over £400 per month and so did the mortgage. I settled on an interest free period and a repayment plan which we seemed to both be happy with. They extended this agreement for a further 6 months and then I get a letter from Apex in January.

 

Apex were calling constantly and threatened to send 'local collectors' to the door. Thanks to this site, I wrote to them using one of the templates in a thread and they wrote back saying they had referred the matter back to Egg. At no time have I had any communication from Egg saying that I should deal with Apex - in fact, they have never mentioned Apex and I continue to pay the originally agreed reduced amount each month by standing order.

 

As part of the action I took as a result of this site, I submitted a CCA request and now have my agreement back. This is where the real confusion starts! My agreement is attached but I have today received another letter from Apex saying:

 

Please find attached your copy of agreement as requested. Please now contact the office as a matter of urgency on 0844 556 0274 to resolve this matter.

 

I have still to receive a notification of transfer from Egg and they continue to take my money every month! Furthermore, how can Apex get my agreement from Egg - isn't this protected by the Data Protection Act?

 

Having read the forum tonight I think I have a strong case to tell Apex to take a running jump; maybe Egg also?

 

I would appreciate any input, as what I have read since January is amazing work.

 

Its unclear what has happened here but it sounds the same as mineand many others' situation.

 

If you agreed a smaller amount with Egg, Egg for some reason got tired of this and have sold the debt to Apex, it is now fully owned byApex and nothing to do with Egg anymore, therefore it may be wise to cancel your payments to Egg, have you received anything from Egg or logged in online to view your account ?

 

Its odd you havnt received anything from Apex, they enjoy writing naff letters. Apex can legally get the agreement from Egg as they now own the debt.

 

Its upto you wether you want to offer a monthly payment to Apex or ignore them or wait and see wether tey take any legal action (so far they seem all talk).

 

Andy

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Thanks for the response Andy.

 

Not heard a thing from Egg - my online account balance just keeps going down - as does the balance on successive requests from Apex......

 

This is why I am deeply confused.

Edited by Never trust banks again
spelling mistakes

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Thanks for the response Andy.

 

Not heard a thing from Egg - my online account balance just keeps going down - as does the balance on successive requests from Apex......

 

This is why I am deeply confused.

 

Well...I'd ask Egg whats going on then.

 

Andy

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I've sent a SAR to Egg and sent a letter to Apex saying the agreement was under dispute as some of the prescribed terms were missing. I have attached the letter sent to Apex and I have posted their response below; I'm not quite sure what to say in response.

 

Any help would be gratefully received and appreciated.

 

"Further to your letter dated 27th March, the contents of which have been noted.

 

Firstly I would like to draw your attention to the date of which you entered into the agreement; 16th August 2003, denoting our obligation to fulfil your request under the CCA 1974 and not the terms prescribed in that of the emendments of the CCA 2006. Therefore, under Section 78 relating to a regulated agreement for a running-account credit, the credit limit is not a requirement under (b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement, the amount payable would have been nil. You will find the rate of interest and repayment details in the Terms and Conditions enclosed. For these reasons we refute your claim that the agreement is lacking any of the terms prescribed by the CCA 1974 and under S127 cannot be enforced.

 

With regard to your request for deed of assignment, I confirm that I have referred this account to Egg for them to provide a copy."

 

There were no enslosures with this letter, so I suspect they were referring to the previous letter which contained my agreement?

 

I still have the other angles from pt2537's thread - Egg Credit Agreements - what do I think is wrong with them - to pursue but should I show my cards to Apex?

Creditor Letter - Apex Credit Management March 2010 Censored.pdf

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I've sent a subject access request to egg via a recorded delivery & postal order. It's been almost 100days and they have not provided what I requested although the postal order was cashed. I also sent a CCA to one of their hired hounds ARC, it provided a credit agreement but was dated several days before egg marked the account as started.

 

Apex are bullies, nothing more than that.


I reside in Dawlish Warren but am not a rabbit.

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Hi Deb

 

Thanks for the reply. You can say that again. Interestingly, they have stopped all the phone calls and threatening to send round the boys.

 

My main issue is that Egg have passed this debt over to Apex without any communication to me - first I knew was a message left on home and mobile numbers on the same day asking to call reference my overdue Apex account - I thought I had had my identity cloned!

 

I will keep the thread updated with the latest information. The thread below appears to be some way ahead of me with Egg - it may be worth you reading this one as well.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/254345-letter-egg.html#post2861831

 

Best of luck! We'll eventually show these people that they may hold the purse strings but the people hold the power!

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Ntba, I have had a wee look at your thread as you asked The document that you posted, is that ALL they sent you, or were there many pages of T&Cs there as well? I would guess there were more but you didnt want to scan them :rolleyes: - neither would I :D. But if they didnt send anything other than this, then it can be argued that they are confirming this as your agreement. As you can see from the draft letterin my thread (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/254345-letter-egg.html#post2861696), they need these T&Cs to make approved limit stand up AT ALL.

What you have posted though looks identical to mine in every respect - even where its folded!:rolleyes: Name will be different though. :lol:

As for telling you they are setting a DCA on you, no they dont bother with that (I am not sure that all that many do, which is something of an issue - "oh I paid that off to your DCA" "What DCA?") - I have certainly had dealings with DLC (who disappeared) and most recently with ARC. I have also had the pleasure of APEX who are masters of ignoring ANYTHING that you say in a letter but complaining that you wont contact them. That is in respect of another one though!. I wouldnt be too sure - in contrast to Andydd that Egg will have sold it - they would have taken a financial hit. They havent sold mine - they havent even defaulted it.

I have had the s78 letter as well - just rubbish. The issue is enforcement not information. Since Waksman's decision in December they can send out any old pap and say they have satisfied s78, and might well have done so. But that dont make it enforceable - that depends on them satisfying s61 and in particular (1a). As you will have seen on my thread, you need to take anything they give you with a very large pinch of salt and certainly check it out.

I dont know if its wise to think about "paths", though there are certainly processes. For instance they have punted you across to Apex, me to DLC and then ARC. Really all you can do is to respond to them as best you can when they are on your case. If you think my ramblings might be helpful in dealing with this then I am happy to do that.

My own view is that until there is a resolution of the case that we expect to be heard in Cardiff in June (you'll see references to it elsewhere on the site), that Egg are likely to sit tight if they are dealing with anyone making, for sure, the approved limit point.

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I am following this thread with interest, I am in the same position as you. I am just starting the CCA request and await the Cardiff result in June to confirm course of action. Keep the updates going.

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SFU

 

Many thanks for your response - sorry for the delay in replying!

 

On March 23rd I received a copy of the 2 page signed agreement along with 30 pages of internet pages entitled "New CR Filing\Change request archive\Egg CRs\ec\ec300-399\ec361\Egg Card new creidt agreement.htm" and a 14 page document entitled "CREDIT CARD AGREEMENT REGULATED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974."

 

It is noteworthy that the original signed agreement does not have the prescribed terms you previously mentioned (heading corrected, corrected rates of interest and the words CREDIT LIMIT) and yet the non-signed documents have!

 

I have had a default notice from Egg in the past - however I have yet to receive a notice of re-assignment to Apex! Egg has responded to my SAR this week with:

 

"Thank you for your recent DSIR request. I am currently in the process of retrieving the relevant information, which will be sent to you by 10th May 2010, subject to your payment clearing."

 

Is there a reason why they have to respond my May 10th? This will be 6 weeks from receiving my request. Interesting that they felt the need to confirm the date by which I would receive the information.....:confused:

 

Let's hope June brings us all, except Egg, the result we hope for!

 

SFU and Poor125 - You may also be interested in the letter I just received from Apex refuting my claim of a missing prescibed term! Please see the attached pdf - single sheet letter received with no T's & C's as stated in the 8th line of the 2nd paragraph!

 

I will keep the thread updated so that all can see the parallel running of our two cases.

Creditor Letter - Apex Credit Management 31 March 2010 Censored.pdf

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I found the letter that Apex sent you very interesting indeed NTBA, because when I was reading it - and in particular the second paragraph - I had this enormous sense of deja vu that I couldnt quite work out. Then I remembered where I had seen it before - and it wasnt several posts above (thought it is there). I got a letter from Apex - another lender :x - and, no kidding on, that letter includes your second paragraph WORD FOR WORD. There are only two differences - and I am including commas and full stops here -

 

  1. the date our agreements were entered into
  2. they dont claim to have sent me T&Cs enclosed

These are the only differences - a date and the absence of the word "enclosed". Talk about formulaic responses!.

I have a reply in draft (I have only just received my letter), which looks like this (if you want to adapt some of it to your own use)

"I refer you to the Office of Fair Trading’s Debt Collection Guidance, and in particular paragraph 2.1 in Section 2, which says “It is unfair to communicate, in whatever form, with consumers in an unclear, inaccurate or misleading manner”.

The same document goes on to give as an example (at b) of such conduct

“leaving out or presenting information in such a way that it creates a false or misleading impression or exploits debtors' lack of knowledge”.

Moreover, in paragraph 2.3 it makes clear that

“Those contacting debtors must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their authority and/or the correct legal position”.

In my view Apex Credit Management have acted in exactly this way by juxtaposing in the penultimate paragraph of your letter of (date) s78 with s127, when it must be quite obvious to you that the relevance of s78 is limited to that section preventing enforcement for as long as the creditor fails to produce a true copy of the agreement, and thus really has little or nothing to do with s127. However, it must have been quite obvious to Apex Credit Management from my letter of (four months ago), that the point I was raising with you concerned the enforceability of the documents that you had sent to me in the context of sections 60 and 61 with no mention whatsoever of s78. You have chosen not to engage with this and instead, in your letter of 9th April, has substituted a wholly misleading argument in relation to s78. Therefore I reserve to myself the right to report Apex Credit Management to the Office for Trading for your attempt to mislead me in your letter of 9th April by referring to the requirements of s78in the manner in which you have".

 

This has been quite positive in that it has forced me to think about how to get round this, and it seems to me that the problem is the way in which we - and the Consumer Credit Act1974 0 use the words enforcement and enforce. The point I was trying to make to Apex in my earlier letter (the one I have referred to as four months ago) was that the document that they had sent me at that time, maybe had one prescribed term in sight, but none of the others, so, following the well trodden route of s61, s65 and s127 (3) they are stuffed was the argument. If one looks at the CCA and 127 (3) you will find that this section begins "The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) ....." However, if one then turns to s78 (6) one finds "If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)— (a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;" Same word - almost - but quite different meanings re process. S65 (1) relates back to the requirements of s61 (signing of agreements) and refers to the powers of the courts - s127 is in a part of the Act headed "JUDICIAL CONTROL - Enforcement of certain regulated agreements and securities". S78 has no such connection.

 

So there is a basis for confusion which as one might expect, lenders and DCAs will take fullest advantage of. But they are wrong. They know - I would bet - they are wrong. But, they will still do it. However, as I have said in my draft letter, they are in breach of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines and perhaps, if enough of us complain to the OFT that their guidelines are simply being ignored by lenders and DCAs, something will be done. At best its simply wrong - but I think they know that. At worst its misleading - and I think that is what they are hoping for :-x

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Apologies for posting in wrong thread! Only noticed afet I hit the Post button.

 

Well SFU and all the rest of the good ladies and gents - not sure if I have the right end of the stick here but I have finally managed to read all the post sent back by Egg in response to my SAR requested on March 27th and received in a bundle dated May 6th!

 

Here goes with some of my confusions relating to the comments contained within the computer system at Egg:

 

1. According to Egg records, they terminated my account on March 6th 2008 - problem is, they didn't tell me that!

 

2. They later acknowledge my notice that I was struggling to keep up repayments and that they had checked this out by 'REVIEWED FIGURES WITH CREDIT SEARCH, OFFERS MADE IN LINE WITH THIS - AGREED - APPLIED 6 MONTH REVIEW'

 

3. on December 15th 2008 they terminated the agreement again - yet again no notice to me!

 

4. In April 2009 they acknowledge receipt of a letter where I offer to increase repayments as disposable income has increased slightly - they do not respond.

 

5. In June 2009 they note on the account that they should consider outsourcing the debt as the repayments are low even though they still have not responded to my letter of April.

 

6. July 10th 2009 they note receipt of letter where I was chasing them for a decision on my offer of increased payments but they send me another letter in crossover stating that 'IF YOU DO NOT CONTACT US IT MAY RESULT IN YOUR ACCOUNT BEING PASSED TO AN EXTERNAL DCA IMMEDIATELY.' Yet they have had plenty of contact from me!

 

7. July 26th 2009 they accept my offer and say send letter - never received - but accept a 6 month agreement at the new repayment.

 

8. November 12th 2009 - debt sold to Apex but no communication sent to me to tell me so! They still accept payments and deduct these from my account.

 

9. On the screen dump of my account it quite clearly states the following:

a. Card Number (obvioulsy)

b. Current balance - surely this should be zero if they have cancelled the agreement?

c. Credit limit -surely this should be zero if they have cancelled the agreement?

d. Available Credit - surely this should be zero if they have cancelled the agreement?

e. Amount due - surely this should be zero if they have cancelled the agreement?

f. Last Statement Date - not had one of those for a while although they claim May 2nd on a document dated May 6th!

g Last payment

h. Last Payment Date - May 4th

i Product Status - NOW THIS IS THE BEST PART - ACTIVE????

 

 

This SAR has thrown up many questions:

 

1. Do they still have an active account for me or not?

 

2. If they terminated my account twice - should they communicate with me and arrange a repayment plan?

 

3. If they have sold my account to Apex - should they not communicate that to me in no uncertain terms and ensure that all repayments are refused and that they change the status of my account to closed?

 

4. They acknowledge the letters I have sent but never record any detail of the content such as account in dispute - is this a deliberate act to cover their tracks?

 

5. As this is all confusing and very misleading - perhaps now is the time to report them to the OFT as previoulsy threaded SFU? Did you ever send your letters to Apex and the OFT about them?

Edited by Never trust banks again

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Sorry for the delay in responding to you all!

 

Well SFU and all the rest of the good ladies and gents - not sure if I have the right end of the stick here but I have finally managed to read all the post sent back by Egglink3.gif in response to my Subject access requestlink3.gif requested on March 27th and received in a bundle dated May 6th!

 

Here goes with some of my confusions relating to the comments contained within the computer system at Egg:

 

1. According to Egg records, they terminated my account on March 6th 2008 - problem is, they didn't tell me that!

 

2. They later acknowledge my notice that I was struggling to keep up repayments and that they had checked this out by 'REVIEWED FIGURES WITH CREDIT SEARCH, OFFERS MADE IN LINE WITH THIS - AGREED - APPLIED 6 MONTH REVIEW'

 

3. on December 15th 2008 they terminated the agreement again - yet again no notice to me!

 

4. In April 2009 they acknowledge receipt of a letter where I offer to increase repayments as disposable income has increased slightly - they do not respond.

 

5. In June 2009 they note on the account that they should consider outsourcing the debt as the repayments are low even though they still have not responded to my letter of April.

 

6. July 10th 2009 they note receipt of letter where I was chasing them for a decision on my offer of increased payments but they send me another letter in crossover stating that 'IF YOU DO NOT CONTACT US IT MAY RESULT IN YOUR ACCOUNT BEING PASSED TO AN EXTERNAL DCAlink3.gif IMMEDIATELY.' Yet they have had plenty of contact from me!

 

7. July 26th 2009 they accept my offer and say send letter - never received - but accept a 6 month agreement at the new repayment.

 

8. November 12th 2009 - debt sold to Apex but no communication sent to me to tell me so! They still accept payments and deduct these from my account.

 

9. On the screen dump of my account it quite clearly states the following:

a. Card Number (obvioulsy)

b. Current balance - surely this should be zero if they have cancelled the agreement?

c. Credit limit -surely this should be zero if they have cancelled the agreement?

d. Available Credit - surely this should be zero if they have cancelled the agreement?

e. Amount due - surely this should be zero if they have cancelled the agreement?

f. Last Statement Date - not had one of those for a while although they claim May 2nd on a document dated May 6th!

g Last payment

h. Last Payment Date - May 4th

i Product Status - NOW THIS IS THE BEST PART - ACTIVE????

 

 

This Subject access requestlink3.gif has thrown up many questions:

 

1. Do they still have an active account for me or not?

 

2. If they terminated my account twice - should they communicate with me and arrange a repayment planlink3.gif?

 

3. If they have sold my account to Apex - should they not communicate that to me in no uncertain terms and ensure that all repayments are refused and that they change the status of my account to closed?

 

4. They acknowledge the letters I have sent but never record any detail of the content such as account in dispute - is this a deliberate act to cover their tracks?

 

5. As this is all confusing and very misleading - perhaps now is the time to report them to the OFT as previoulsy threaded SFU? Did you ever send your letters to Apex and the OFT about them?

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  1. I dont see how they can have. In fact I dont see how an account can be terminated more than once - bit like killing someone twice? You should have been advised about this. Also did they issue a compliant DN either time? I would guess not
  2. yes they should notified termination. But whether they should still accept payments depends on the account still being in existence, as if they terminated without a compliant DN they are in unlawful recission in which case you owe no more than the amount due on date of termination
  3. Yes x 2. When they sold the account to Apex, they I would presume have sent a letter saying "hi, please pay us from now on" but Egg havent told you they have sold you out and are continuing to accept payments. All this again depends on the account not having been unlawfully terminated (you will understand that they wont agree with this)
  4. perhaps, but more likely an automated system that recognises only the words "I" and "surrender".
  5. no i didnt actually - more a statement of my lack of faith in OFT. Whenever I think of them I am reminded of Denis Healey's put down of Geoffrey Howe as "being savaged by a dead sheep". A bit like telling them "any future phone calls will be recorded" - even if you dont, they have to work on the basis that you do.

In any event PT's case has now been heard and we await a judgement in the next few weeks. I would leave it, if at all possible, till that judgement is issued.

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Thanks for the speedy response SFU; a lot faster than my last one.

 

Do we have any idea when PT's case result will be published? Obvioulsy there are many people awaiting to hear the judgement.

 

On my last post - if Egg failed to supply all the requested details by my 40 day deadline - what does that mean for me? I believe their deadline to get info to me was May 10th but I am missing information about letters sent to me, they have failed to show me all the data they have on file - by only sending me limited screen dumps of certain screens, etc.

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re the judgement - I believe before end September, but other than that your guess is as good as mine.

I think you could complain to the Data Protection Officer - whether it would get you anywhere is another issue entirely

You can complain to them about the missing information - but be as precise as you can on every item that you want to claim is missing. Otherwsise they will just knock it back for lack of specification.

I would be inclined to "keep my powder dry" for PT's judgement.

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Apologies for posting in wrong thread! Only noticed afet I hit the Post button.

 

Well SFU and all the rest of the good ladies and gents - not sure if I have the right end of the stick here but I have finally managed to read all the post sent back by Egg in response to my SAR requested on March 27th and received in a bundle dated May 6th!

 

Here goes with some of my confusions relating to the comments contained within the computer system at Egg:

 

1. According to Egg records, they terminated my account on March 6th 2008 - problem is, they didn't tell me that!

 

2. They later acknowledge my notice that I was struggling to keep up repayments and that they had checked this out by 'REVIEWED FIGURES WITH CREDIT SEARCH, OFFERS MADE IN LINE WITH THIS - AGREED - APPLIED 6 MONTH REVIEW'

 

3. on December 15th 2008 they terminated the agreement again - yet again no notice to me!

 

4. In April 2009 they acknowledge receipt of a letter where I offer to increase repayments as disposable income has increased slightly - they do not respond.

 

5. In June 2009 they note on the account that they should consider outsourcing the debt as the repayments are low even though they still have not responded to my letter of April.

 

6. July 10th 2009 they note receipt of letter where I was chasing them for a decision on my offer of increased payments but they send me another letter in crossover stating that 'IF YOU DO NOT CONTACT US IT MAY RESULT IN YOUR ACCOUNT BEING PASSED TO AN EXTERNAL DCA IMMEDIATELY.' Yet they have had plenty of contact from me!

 

7. July 26th 2009 they accept my offer and say send letter - never received - but accept a 6 month agreement at the new repayment.

 

8. November 12th 2009 - debt sold to Apex but no communication sent to me to tell me so! They still accept payments and deduct these from my account.

 

9. On the screen dump of my account it quite clearly states the following:

a. Card Number (obvioulsy)

b. Current balance - surely this should be zero if they have cancelled the agreement?

c. Credit limit -surely this should be zero if they have cancelled the agreement?

d. Available Credit - surely this should be zero if they have cancelled the agreement?

e. Amount due - surely this should be zero if they have cancelled the agreement?

f. Last Statement Date - not had one of those for a while although they claim May 2nd on a document dated May 6th!

g Last payment

h. Last Payment Date - May 4th

i Product Status - NOW THIS IS THE BEST PART - ACTIVE????

 

 

This SAR has thrown up many questions:

 

1. Do they still have an active account for me or not?

 

2. If they terminated my account twice - should they communicate with me and arrange a repayment plan?

 

3. If they have sold my account to Apex - should they not communicate that to me in no uncertain terms and ensure that all repayments are refused and that they change the status of my account to closed?

 

4. They acknowledge the letters I have sent but never record any detail of the content such as account in dispute - is this a deliberate act to cover their tracks?

 

5. As this is all confusing and very misleading - perhaps now is the time to report them to the OFT as previoulsy threaded SFU? Did you ever send your letters to Apex and the OFT about them?

 

 

1-Does SAR state that account is closed?

2-Have you been behind in payments and received a DN?

if answer to 2 is YES was that DN recorded in your SAR?

3.Could there have been a unilateral cancellation of contract?

 

If you have letters or evidence that they have terminated your account you should write them accepting this and Record Delivery it.

 

If they have teminated without EVEN sending you an opportunity to remedy ...ie DN they are really dropping their standards!!!!

 

m2ae

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Hiya All

 

It has now been 4 weeks since my last letter asking Egg if they know what they are doing - left hand / right hand?

 

Well folks I had a response from them 1 week later (3 weeks ago) saying they are looking into my complaint - as I had stated the account was in dispute for over a year before they apparently decided to sell it on! No resolution to my complaint has ever been acknowledged / offered / refuted so how could they sell a disputed account - their records clearly show a logged letter from an agency refuting the legality of their agreement!?

 

I have had a letter from Apex as well - this states they have referred the matter back to Egg again but I "should be aware that there are only so many times they can do this"!!!??? Does this mean they are running out of options?

 

Hopefully they are back-pedalling in anticipation of PT's judgement.

 

SFU my powder is being kept dry - thanks for the advice!

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I think the problem with whether there was a compliant DN before termination is that NTBA seems to have contacted them to offer decreased payments, suggesting that he didnt take advantage of what could otherwise have bee unlawful recission of the contract. (thinking here of his points 4 in particular and 2 as well, though not as sure about that one).

IF THEY HAVE SOLD to Apex then that would suggest to me that your account is no longer active. But from what you say that is very unclear and I would be inclined to contact both of them till they get their act together and clarify. This really is typically scandalous of the debt industry. Suppose - just suppose - that you paid the full amount to Apex because they said they owned the debt now. Then Egg come along and say "we still own the debt, pay up". There needs to be a clear process of transfer, but very often all we get is a letter saying "we now own your debt" - in fact Cabot have as the first term in their "hello letter" t&cs that this letter notifies you of transfer! Sorry - off topic!

The other thing is that PT's case judgement is due out some time this/next month - fend them off till then, for instance by getting clarity about who it is that owns the debt - for instance ask Apex for their letter of assignation from Egg. Ask Egg if they still own the debt and whether Apex are merely acting as their agents. They are so buried under mail it should take a few weeks for them to get back to you.

No never did do OFT - no faith in them. But still worth making the threat - a bit like "I am recording all your calls". They dont know whether I am or not, but have to act like I am:-D

Tina Turner, what I think they have done is in line with Waxman's decision in Manchester and sent a copy of the original agreement along with a copy of the current agreement (this will be the one with the Canada Square address). What you need to focus on is the original one and the defects that might be on this (eg does it refer to "Approved limit" - if it does, i will be the new one doesnt - but that doesnt matter - its the term used when you entered the agreement. If there is something wrong there then the agreement has never been properly executed)

 

Folks - I have never been told that my account was terminated. They have two entries - 9 months apart stating TERMINATED AGREEMENT ACCOUNT.

 

On my CC documentation it also states that my Card Account is ACTIVE, in May 2010, but Apex claim to have been sold the debt in 2009. I was orignally telephoned repeatedly by Apex to pay up because I had failed to keep my agreement with them! As I didn't know who they were - I told them to take a long and mind expansive run off a short cliff which wasn't received too well! Egg have never confirmed thye have sold the debt - nearly a year on! However, this site has helped me enormously and I am slowly making headway.

 

I am now awaiting PT's judgement as per SFU's advice in my thread; however both Apex and Egg have gone very quiet since I have challenged their own data provided under the SAR! If you could only see the hundreds of pages I have - honestly you would laugh at their incompetence! Let's hope we're all laughing in a couple of months!!

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Not sure NTBA whether this has to with Apex or with Egg, but I rather think the former. I had a letter from Apex saying that they were going to contact the original lender (not Egg - another one) for a copy of the executed agreement (they wont get one btw - they have bought a lemon), but that "to manage (my) expectations (I) should understand that they can only make so many of these requests".

They have already sent me the application form - it actually refers to credit limit, but not a word is there about interest rates or repayment arrangements. Is this Apex's way of putting accounts they wont be able to move on, without having to admit to it.

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SFU

Now finally had an update from Apex - they are going to pass my details onto their pre-litigation assessment people; however, still no notice of assignment from Egg themselves. Egg also has my credit card details on their website with a balance showing. They have removed the balance of my Egg loan and I have just started to receive letters from Apex about the Egg Loan that was also being paid back on a lowered monthly account basis.

 

Are they piddling in the wind here and just trying to intimidate me into paying up? Or do they have a claim?

 

I was holding out for PT's outcome but I haven't seen or heard anything on the site - can anyone update me please?

 

Are we making headway here? I have seen people sayiong they have beaten Egg, parden the pun, but on what type of accounts and on what grounds?

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First of all, and most straightforwardly though sadly, PT's case went down on all counts as far as we can see. As for Apex's pre-litigation dept, what the hell is that? Probably another desk with another muppet sitting at it. Of course they might have a couple of para-legals doing assessments of what they think the chances in court will be? Somehow I doubt it.

However, putting together PT's case with the lack of "action" does give me cause to wonder what it going on at Egg Towers?

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Thanks SFU

 

What about the loan being sold off without a default notice?

 

In June 2009 Egg sent me a letter headed "Just to conifrm our arrangement" stating:

 

If you cannot pay your arrears within the 28 day notice period the default will be registered with the Credit References Agencies and this will affect your credit file with these agencies for a period of at least 6 years.

I have had nothing else from them except for when I have asked for information via a SARS, for example.

 

Even with my SARS, I got a load of screen dumps and very few copies of letters - some of which I never recall ever seeing! I wouldn't mind but I am still paying these toe-rags about £150 per month for the two accounts.

 

My other debts are all agreed and on fixed low amounts until cleared.

 

NTBA

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If there was no default notice then there is an argument that they have breached the CCA and terminated the contract unlawfully - basically breach of contract. There are though two problems with this

  1. you will still owe what was overdue (I dont mean the full amount, but the total of any payments missed up to that date) when they broke the contract
  2. they might claim - and i have seen the argument developed on here that they might have breached the CCA, but if the agreement gave them the right to terminate then they havent acted outwith the terms of the contract (as opposed to their duties under the CCA)

So that can get quite technical - but for sure what they sent you - just to confirm our arrangement ffs! - isnt a form of DN known to the CCA. .

My advice would be to continue on the road you are on. Two things will happen - they will take you to court because they think they have a good case (but imo if they thought that they woudl have done this already - it is though a consideration to be taken seriously - NO ONE - least of all me - can offer guarantees on this) or they will eventually get fed up, write if off and sell it to some even lower form of life who will take you through the same loop but with even less expertise

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