Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB ***WON UNCONDITIONALLY WITH CONTRACTUAL INTEREST***

[tim2718281]

I suggest you write to the directors of the bank.

 

Send the copy of the letter.

 

Tell them you are already suing them, give them the case number, and tell them the court date.

 

Tell them to stop sending you these threatening letters. Tell them the only assistance you require from them is for them to pay you the money they owe you.

 

Keep your letter as short as possible ... do not give reasons, arguments, or threats, just give them the simple instruction.

 

Tim

[elsinore]

I'm with Tim on this one. I suggested many posts back that the time had come to escalate your complaint. Make it the Group Chief Executive, Eric Daniels, while you're at it. It'll do him good to know what's going on down the line. Maybe some heads will get knocked together.

 

Elsinore

[lucid]

OK my panic is now over!

 

I just phoned collections to see what was going on and managed to speak to somebody useful. I explained the situation that we have a court hearing on 7th February and there's a dispute going on over this "debt". I then said that I understood from Mindzai having to phone them a lot that they aren't always made aware of the fact that we've got a court hearing and we have sent letters to various departments. I asked if he knew that we have a court hearing and he said that there was a note on our record. I said that I wrote a letter to Brighton Customer Recovery on 28th November to complain about the high level of phone calls from collections, and I explained that the first thing I here back is this. To which he answered that I should completely ignore the letter, as they won't go ahead with any proceedings while I'm being dealt with by Customer Recovery. So I then asked if that means I won't be contacted again until 7th February and he said he will put a note on the record.

 

So I don't know how promising this all is but it sounds as though there's nohing to worry about at the moment. I think I was very lucky that my call was answered by a member of staff who wasn't intent on arguing. I will still go ahead with writing to them just to be sure, but I'm pretty confident all will be ok.

 

Lucid

[Mindzai]

I have written a letter to send to their collections center about this (will post later), but I have also just emailed their CEO:

 

Dear Mr. Daniels

 

I am writing in response to the letter from your Brighton recovery centre, attached to the bottom of this email. I have attempted to communicate with them on over 20 occasions concerning this matter with no success aside from receiving template letters which do not address the issue, hence my contacting you directly.

 

As I have informed various departments in your organisation on numerous occasions, the debt you claim I owe and more is currently the subject of a County Court claim against you as it consists entirely of unlawful charges.

 

The case number is XXXXXXX and is due to be heard at Chichester County Court on 7th February 2006 at 2pm.

 

I require you to cease in sending me threatening letters and from taking any further action to reclaim this money until the dispute is resolved.

 

The only assistance I require of you at this stage aside from repaying my money is to write confirming that you will indeed stop chasing this debt until this issue is resolved.

 

In relation to your intention to register a default over this matter with the reference agencies, I draw your attention to section 13.6 of the Banking Code, to which you subscribe.

 

Should you require copies of any of the previous correspondence concerning this matter before it is submitted to the Court as part of my evidence bundle, I will be happy to provide this at your request.

 

I eagerly await your reply.

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

Mindzai

 

They just do not seem to get it do they?!

 

...to which he answered that I should completely ignore the letter, as they won't go ahead with any proceedings while I'm being dealt with by Customer Recovery...

 

Doesn't inspire me the same sense of confidence I'm afraid! If they have no intention of proceeding then in my eyes these letters amount to abusive attempts at intimidation. Still i'm not going to worry about this over Christmas, we'll see what happens next, but rest assured they ain't getting a penny regardless of what they say or do.

[lucid]

Well I have finally received a letter from Customer Recovery Brighton. This was in reply to the letter I sent them which can be found here. It has exactly the same date as the letter I got yesterday from Collections, threatening me with the debt collectors.

 

Customer Service Recovery Centre

Moore House

Black Lion Street

Brighton

BN1 4DA

 

Date: 14th December 2006

 

Dear Miss Lucid,

 

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

 

I think it would be helpful if I set out my understanding of your complaint:

 

The frequency of telephone calls and messages received when the account is the subject of your County Court claim.

 

I am sorry for the contacts that you have received. I confirm that we are aware of the forthcoming court hearing on 7 February and pending the outcome matters will be held in abeyance.

 

I hope this fully answers the points you raised with us. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.

 

If we still cannot come to an agreed solution, I will help you refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service so they can consider this independently.

 

If you are happy with the way I have dealt with your complaint, there is no need for you to reply to my letter. If I have not heard from you by 7 February I will close my file, though of course I will re-open it should you come back at any point afterwards.

 

Please give us a call if it would help to discuss this.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Richard Moore

Senior Officer

Customer Service Recovery Centre

Brighton

At first glance I thought it looked like a completely standard fob off, and although most of it is, there is actually something positive and for once I think I have actually achieved something by writing to them.

 

"I am sorry for the contacts that you have received. I confirm that we are aware of the forthcoming court hearing on 7 February and pending the outcome matters will be held in abeyance."

 

I know it's not much but at least they are saying they're no going to chase me for their debt until after the hearing - and after then it will no longer exist. So I'm quite relieved, although the fact that this was sent out on the same day as the threat from Collections makes it pretty clear that the Collections letters are just automatically sent out.

 

Lucid

[lucid]

Hi everyone,

 

I thought I best update to let you know that Mindzai received a settlement offer for his sole account a couple of days ago. The letter is pretty much the same as our joint account settlement and once again they have offered the total charges and statutory interest but only up until the day we filed the claim . But they have also offered overdraft interest. Nice to see their consistency as in our joint account letter they say: Please note that overdraft interest is not recoverable. The total amount they have offered is £471.88 (including court fees).

 

The conditions are exactly the same with the addition of the following:

 

You make contact with your local Lloyds TSB Branch Manager on 0845 3000 000 to arrange a review of your account. The Bank wishes to avoid further situations which give rise to disputes. A review may be useful to consider whether your current banking arrangements are the most appropriate for your needs.

Yeah right! All of these conditions will be rejected. They also have added a paragraph where they refer to our contractual interest.

 

The Bank will not entertain your list of costs bearing in mind that this is a small claims matter or in deed interest at the rate of 29.85% per annum.

So they don't like the sound of 29.85% interest.

 

Also at the beginning of this letter they make a big deal over the fact that the letter is headed Stricly Without Prejudice and Confidential and Privileged.

 

As you are aware, we act on behalf of Lloyds TSB Bank plc. This letter is marked ‘without prejudice’ and is ‘confidential and privileged’ which means it will not be produced in Court, and is confidential between you, us and the Bank. Therefore, you are required not to show this letter to anyone or reproduce it in any way that comprises the parties when entering settlement negotiations.

I know that without prejudice means you can't show the letter to the Court, but is this also what the confidential and privileged means. I've tried to find out and it seems to suggest that it emans exactly the same thing in that you can't show the letter in court. I assume by posting the settlement letters on this thread it doesn't mean I'm doing anything wrong does it? Thanks for any input.

 

Lucid

[GaryH]

No, they can't unilaterally impose binding confidentiality. It has to be agreed, which clearly it won't!

[lucid]

Excellent - thanks Gary. I didn't think I had done anything wrong in posting up the letters but thought it was better to check.

 

Lucid

[nevos]

Woweeeeeeeee, Hi M and L. I got up early this am as usual and wanted to read about contractual interest, read all your input on spread sheets then clicked a link over to this thread and have been here most of the morning. Great stuff, well done.

 

You have to sign up to a confidentiality agreement for it to be enforced, so forget that bit.

 

I tried to d/l your spread sheet but it said quota has been exceeded etc, may I pm you with my email for a copy please?

 

And would like to wish you a very Happy New Year!!!

[lucid]

Hi nevos,

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

If you send a PM to Mindzai and he'll either email you the sheet, or he will find a new upload space so that the link works again. Either way he'll let you know where you can get it from.

 

Happy New Year to you too.

 

Lucid

[nevos]

Thank you very much!

[Mindzai]

Hi nevos,

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

If you send a PM to Mindzai and he'll either email you the sheet, or he will find a new upload space so that the link works again. Either way he'll let you know where you can get it from.

 

Happy New Year to you too.

 

Lucid

 

The spreadsheet is hosted with my ISP now so hopefully ahould remain available. You can get it from here, and if you have any questions etc you can post in this thread and I will help in any way I can.

 

[nevos]

Hi Mindzai: I got it thank you!

[RedDeath]

Just thought I would come over and root for you on your own thread.

Good luck guys, definetly with you!!!!!!

[spiritgirl59]

Wow guys! I am speechless ... you've done absolutely brilliantly, your letters make for great reading and the way you have stood up to Lloyds bullying tactics is inspirational!

 

I feel we have been so lucky not to have had to deal with such rudeness and incompetence or harrassment as you have and you deserve a medal for your patience with those idiots at the recovery centre!

 

I too have subscribed to your thread to see the outcome.

 

I wish you the very best of luck.

 

Spiritgirl;)

[martinhw]

Does anybody know where I can find the Consumer Credit Act 1974 so I can check it our? I can't find a copy anywhere on the web.

 

Also, does anyone know of any legal basis for arguing against this enforcement considering the amount was disputed before they started this?

 

They are clearly trying to scare us and make sure we don't have the money to pay court fees, and I will be reporting them for this, but I'd like to have some legal basis as well a moral basis for doing so.

 

I know it's ages since you posted this, but others may also benifit from it, I have it saved from a post on this forum somewhere, not my contribution, but it is the Statute Law Database Home - Statute Law Database

 

Hope this helps. And thanx for the spreadsheet - It's helped my fight against TSB.

[mcuth]

I know it's ages since you posted this, but others may also benifit from it, I have it saved from a post on this forum somewhere, not my contribution, but it is the Statute Law Database Home - Statute Law Database

 

Hope this helps. And thanx for the spreadsheet - It's helped my fight against TSB.

 

Martin - you might also like this link:

Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[lucid]

Hi everyone,

 

I've got a question regarding the court bundles - to anybody who knows or has done one before. For the bank statements section do we include every single statement since the first ever charge we received? Or do we just pick out the statements that have a charge or overdraft interest on?

 

Also I'm assuming we don't include our Particulars of Claim as SC&M and the court already have them, but if I'm on wrong on this can somebody please point that out.

 

Thanks, Lucid

[photoman]

IMHO, I would for the sake of safety, just include everything? For a start off, even though you may not have had charges that month, you may still have incurred debit interest in relation to past charges? Also, they may for example try to claim that some charges were refunded in subsequent months, and this could then be easily demonstrated as not the case.

[lucid]

Thanks photoman. Yes I suppose it's better to include them all - just in case.

 

Lucid

[photoman]

Have you seen this article in Todays Daily Mail?

(online version available here Banks accused of 'mugging' customers over charges | the Daily Mail )

 

 

I particularly like this (he even refers to the charges as being "illegal") :

 

Quote:

 

Mr Taylor (Truro and St Austell) told MPs penalties imposed on customers for bounced cheques and declined direct debit payments netted the six main banks £4.5 billion last year.

He said in a Westminster Hall debate: "This is a major contributor to the UK debt crisis and to social exclusion.

"Most importantly of all, these bank penalty charges are more than inconvenient, more than unfair, they are illegal."

He said the charges, which were on average £30, could lead to a "spiral of debt" as penalties mounted up. Mr Taylor said: "The truth is, this is the banks using poverty as a source of profit."

[Mindzai]

That has to be the first time I would agree with anything that has appeared in the Daily Mail

[GaryH]

I personally only included the statements showing charges. Thats all thats necessary to prove that the charges have been made, but obviously it won't do any harm to include them all.

 

No need for the POC or AQ or any court documents.

 

That has to be the first time I would agree with anything that has appeared in the Daily Mail :grin:

Yep, me too - and quite possibly the last!

[lucid]

Too late - all statements are now printed. It actually only took about an hour which I don't think is too bad for three accounts - and obviously printing three of each page. I think it would have been a small amount of statements that don't have charges or interest on anyway.

 

I'm quite scared by the amount of paper this has consumed so far though. We've gone through about 750 sheets just for the statements and our joint account correspondance. :o Still we'll get finished tomorrow and get it posted (somehow) via Special Delivery, then we can forget about it.

 

Lucid

[photoman]

..........maybe we should bring a joint action against the banks for the effects they have had on our declining forests..... and global warming whilst were at it !!