Restons Sols and John Lewis - Court Action

[SirTrev]

Hi

 

We have been in finacial difficulty due to the recession hitting both of our incomes (my wife is down about 85% on the previous year!), and have not been able to repay credit cards and loans. We have positive signs of business picking up and should be able to start making reasonable or full repayments within 6 to 8 weeks. Most creditors have been fine with a token payment for 3 to 6 months, but not John Lewis/ Restons. I sent them an I&E statement showing we are in deficit and at the moment surviving through family and ebay! But they wouldn't accept our offer. I immediately wrote another letter asking for help for a short period, but today (2 days after I received their letter rejecting our offer) I received a Claim Form from the Northampton Court. Firstly, can anyone tell what this is? Also, is it too late to CCA them?

 

The debt is around £10K, so what possibility is there that I will have baliffs knocking on the door? I know they need court authority, but I just want to know when they can do that. Also, is there any way that our house (no equity) is at risk?

 

We have spoken to Payplan, but they advised that we can't do anything formal yet, until our incomes pick up.

 

I would appreciate any help!

 

Thanks

[cerberusalert]

Moved to Debt Collection Forum.

[loopinlouie]

Pay the token payment you can afford by s/order to the bank account and number codes on your statement along with reference number, wether they like it or not. If you recodnise the debt shows willing and looks better in court, they cant say you are refusing to pay. I pay 1.00 monthly and set it up myself after they threatened court. I told them try and get more through a court, they left me alone.

 

Goodness they are greedy, you have already told them you can make good soon, so they would look unhelpful in court that they would not come to an agreement with you.

 

Have you asked for a copy of the agreement?

 

Some good help will come soon.

[Bazooka Boo]

To put your mind at ease a little reference bailiffs, these can ONLY be ordered by a court, and this would be AFTER you have gone to court, where the Judge will look at your I&E and hear your side of the story, the Judge will then decide on the best course of action to recover the money, NOT some tin pot DCA like pestons.

 

If the judge orders you to pay a set amount each month/week, and you then fail to make good the payments, then you will again have to be taken back to court where you will have to explain to the judge why you failed to pay, THEN he will again decide the best course of action to recover the money, and one of these options will be 'Certified Court Bailiffs', again not some half baked knuckle dragging doorstep collector the DCA threatens most people with.

 

Boo;-)

[meols cop]

Were there any charges on the card? You could claim them back.

[supasnooper]

Moved to Legal Issues forum

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello SirTrev!

 

OK, please can you outline all of the details that you have available, so that we can start to help you.

 

(1.) What sort of finance was this, i.e. a Loan or a Credit Card for example.

 

(2.) Did you keep any of the paperwork, such as copies of any Application Forms or copies of any Agreements and Terms.

 

(3.) Did they send you a s87(1) Default Notice at any stage, and have you kept that.

 

(4.) Can you please outline their Particulars of Claim (POC), just state what they say, word for word, but leave out your own name. But please leave in any Dates and Amounts.

 

(5.) What was the date on their Claim Form (the one from the Court).

 

The clock is ticking, but we have around 2 weeks to get you to the Acknowledgement of Service (AOS) Deadline, by which time you must tell the Court that you will be, ideally, defending the whole Claim.

 

Provided the AOS goes in on time, you then have another 2 weeks thereafter to get your Defence ready and/or we may be able to hit back earlier if their POC is pants, as is often the case with Restons and John Lewis.

 

Finally, I would send John Lewis a SAR anyway, just to see what it pops up while you are busy with the Court issues. You can use CPR, but my own experience is to get fishing via as many avenues as you can, because one may tip up something interesting to help you.

 

In other words (IOW), send a S-A-R to John Lewis, and also send a CPR 18 Request to Restons. We will explain what this all means once we get going on this Thread.

 

The good news is John Lewis have many dubious Agreements, and their Claims are very often flawed. Let's see what they have come up with this time.

 

Beware that Restons trawl CAG, so keep your identity hidden, although don't get paranoid. They are out to get you, but the help you can get here will far outweigh anything they may see here. Indeed, it will probably persuade them you are not worth bothering with as this gets going.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[SirTrev]

Thanks for everyone's help! I'm not sure of all the terminology yet, but unfortunately getting the hang of it.

 

1, This is a credit card debt

 

2, No, I don't remember what paperwork was provided, it was about 5 years ago

 

3, I think they did send a default notice, but I don't think I kept it. I will look in my records that I usually try to avoid!

 

4, The POD states;

 

'The claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the defendant under a contract dated on or about 09/09/2009 in the sum of £10,534.54 inclusive of interest to the date of this summons at 19.8% per annum from 29/01/10 to 18/03/10

 

Particulars a/c ##########

 

Date Item Value

29/1/10 Default Balance 10272.18

4/2/10 Post Refrl Cr -5.00

 

4/2/10 5.00

18/3/10 interest 267.36

TOTAL:- 10534.54

 

Together with:-

Interest pursuant to contract

at the rate of 556.96 pence per day

to the date of the Judgement or sooner payment.

 

5, Issue date 19 March 2010

 

Thanks again, I just wish they could have been more reasonable like some of the other creditors. Being so aggressive doesn't help anyone.

[OnMyWayOut]

Wow - have Restons finally learned not to add outrageous 'collection costs'?

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello SirTrev!

 

...under a contract dated on or about 09/09/2009...

 

They don't even seem to be sure of the date! Oh dear, that's not looking good for them already. If they had all the paperwork and documentation before starting this Claim, they would know.

 

I think you need to read PT2537's Litigation Thread first:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/241827-legal-action-how-start.html#post2695725

 

Then have a read of NGEddie's Thread on the merits of putting in a very short Embarrassed Defence...then going for a Strike Out or Summary Judgment:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/237396-n150-assistance-needed-please.html#post2634455

 

Please read the above two, then ask any questions you may have after that. I think you'll see what I mean when you have had a read, then we can take it from there.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[SirTrev]

Thanks for everyone's help. I have to say that I'm not exactly sure what to do though! I assume that I still have to return the claim form to the court, but I say that I will contest it. Do I also fill out the income and expenditure section (this will show a defecit at the moment, but if they waited 2 months as I asked, it would be a lot healthier!)?

 

I can send the letter quoted in the link above at the same time, but what happens if I contest it and lose? Do I still get my circumstances taken into account and be given the chance to repay on a monthly basis?

 

Sorry if I haven't understood everything, but one of the reasons I am in this mess is because I had a stroke and find it difficult to take in info like this now.

 

I really appreciate everyone's help

[SirTrev]

Sorry to be a pain, but can anyone tell from what I posted whether this POC seems to be worth contesting? I need to send the forms off tomorrow and just don't know if I should contest it or not.

 

I really need some advice asap please.

[SirTrev]

Hi again

 

Not sure if this will get a reply in time, but hopefully someone will be able to help. It has been suggested that I submit a subject access request, but this takes 40 days, and I have to send the claim form back tomorrow and think that the court process will be over before the 40 days is up. Is this right?

 

I'm thinking that I may have to just admit it, because I am worried that I will make a really bad situation even worse.

 

Thanks to anyone that has tried to help though.

[SirTrev]

Hi again

 

Not sure if this will get a reply in time, but hopefully someone will be able to help. It has been suggested that I submit a subject access request, but this takes 40 days, and I have to send the claim form back tomorrow and think that the court process will be over before the 40 days is up. Is this right?

 

I'm thinking that I may have to just admit it, because I am worried that I will make a really bad situation even worse.

 

Thanks to anyone that has tried to help though.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello SirTrev!

 

I'm a bit light on the details to advise in any depth, but from what I can see, it looks like this:

 

The Basics

 

(A) John Lewis Credit Card, taken out in around 2005 (you said approx 5 years ago).

 

(B) Balance is around £10k. No surprises there, about half the population of the UK are saddled with at least one Credit Card Debt of that amount.

 

(C) You have not sent John Lewis a s78 Request, so do not have any s78 issues to use, such as them being in default of that Request. Don't worry, it's one issue you cannot use, that's all.

 

(D) You have not sent John Lewis a SAR, so are a bit light on details at the moment. Don't worry, this can be addressed.

 

(E) You are a victim of this mess the bankers have lumbered us all in, so you found yourself struggling to pay the Debts now hanging around your neck. Again, no surprises, and at the moment, you may be feeling this is more your fault than theirs? I suspect you will change that opinion as you get into the detail behind this Debt.

 

The Lead Up

 

(F) You tried to reason with all of the howling bankers chasing you for your dwindling income, and some of them have been kept happy with smaller portions of your hard earned crust. Not so John Lewis, who probably need the money more than the others, so they demanded more than you were able to offer.

 

(G) Enter Restons Stage Left, and they pushed you harder for money you do not have right now. You made them an offer, they issued a Court Claim and, after issuing that, they sent you a Foxtrot Oscar letter timed to arrive two days before the Court Claim.

 

The Court Claim

 

(H) This has been rushed out via the Northampton Bulk Centre, a favourite place for people like John Lewis and Restons, when they have problems finding the documents they need. This is probably, therefore, a good sign, as is the rather rushed and vague Particulars of Claim (POC) they seem to have knocked up...it suggests all is not quite what they want you to think it seems!

 

(I) The Clam was issued on 19/03/2010, and you received it on 24/03/2010. Do check this, but I think Claims issued out from Northampton are Served +5 days after issue, so the Service Date is the 24th March, which just so happens to be the same day it arrived.

 

(J) If Service was on 24/03/2010, then you have +14 days to acknowledge the Service, that's called Acknowledgement of Service (AOS). That is your first KEY DEADLINE. By then you either need to bend over and give up, in which case they win, you lose, you get a CCJ and they come after you for the money...or, you can fight back!

 

If you decide to fight back (hint, hint) then, in that case, by +14 days from Service, you just need to send back the AOS saying you willdefend the lot.

 

Why Defend?

 

Firstly, you must take a step back, and dump all thoughts that this is all your fault, and you are worried about making things worse or that you somehow need to placate these people.

 

They do no care about you, nor your family, and they will stop at nothing to put you through the Mangle to get what they want. What they want is your assets or cash, they do not care one way or another. A Recession is a bean feast for the banks, because this is when they get to turn bundles of invisible number money, into hard cash. Fresh Air into Bricks and Mortar.

 

Right, you have time to think about this, because I think your AOS Deadline is 6th April. You can file that on-line, but just do not blow it. So, plan on setting, say, 4th April as your Deadline which gives you, and us, time to get you sorted and on the right path.

 

How to Defend

 

Firstly, it's not even clear what you are defending. I know you think you know. I know I think I know. I also think you know you think you know.

 

But, there's the first problem for your enemy straight away. It's simply not very clear. They don't even seem to know what date the Agreement was made.

 

This suggests why they issued via the Northampton Bulk Centre, because that does not need them to file any documents at the point of Claim (although they still need them by Court time). They are clearly hoping you will just roll over for them, i.e. once suitably alarmed by a Court Claim...they hope you are a lamb, and will not put up a fight!

 

In my view, you cannot defend this, not because you have no Defence, but because you simply do not know what you are required to defend!

 

In this case, the short Embarrassed Defence is entirely appropriate, but provided you do not admit defeat before the AOS stage, and assuming you do send back your AOS saying you will Defend the lot, then we have at least another two weeks plus to get any Defence in. Right now, all you really can do is:

 

 

• Submit AOS on time (+14 days from Service) saying you will defend the lot.
  

 

• Submit short Embarrassed Defence +14 days after AOS.
  

 

The good news is many John Lewis Agreements from around 2005 were deeply suspect, and so were their Default Notices. All of this has yet to come to light, so now is not the time to bend over and give up.

 

So, my advice is to have a long hard think, discuss things here, then send back your AOS saying you will Defend the lot. Then we can work on your strategy, and plan on submitting a short Embarrassed Defence in a couple of weeks time. However, we won't be idle, will we? What we will do is get you up to speed and, by that time, you will know what to do.

 

Thus, as far as I can tell, you do not have any Deadlines this week, the first big one is AOS, and that is next Tuesday, that's if the dates you have given above are accurate.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello SirTrev!

 

Gone to bed already?

 

Anyway, assuming you are up for this, read this Thread, it's someone a little further ahead than you, who is getting good advice to point them in the right direction.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/253128-nttf-restons-hfc.html#post2844191

 

Read the advice, not so much what the Cagger is saying, it's the advice they are getting that is what you need to hone in on.

 

Much of it could be directed at you, so I recommend the Thread to you.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[SirTrev]

Thanks BRW, that looks excellent! I will read and digest later, I can send the claim form back on Tuesday so have the weekend to sort it out.

 

I'm hoping that most of my issues will be sorted soon, just wish this lot would have waited a month until everything was clearer for me.

 

Thanks again

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello SirTrev!

 

I would still send them a SAR, even though it will cost you £10 plus Special Delivery. Send that to The Company Secretary, at the Registered Office of the Company that is shown on all of your Statements.

 

You can obtain the most up to date Registered Office address for any UK Company here:

 

Companies House

 

My guess is it will be this Company, but do check:

 

Name & Registered Office:

 

JOHN LEWIS FINANCIAL SERVICES LIMITED

NORTH STREET

WINKFIELD

WINDSOR

BERKSHIRE

SL4 4TD

Company No. 04645530

There are plenty of SAR Template Letters on CAG, but my advice is to ask them for everything, and add a comment to say that the £10 Statutory Fee is not a payment towards any Debt.

 

I appreciate this will take at least the Statutory Maximum 40 Calendar Days (starting from the day after they get it), but I suspect your Court Claim issue will be rumbling on for a lot longer than 40 days. Thus, a fat bundle should arrive in that time, which may well provide some useful additional ammunition.

 

Now, others will correctly say that because Court has been started, you are entitled to use CPR to get more or less the same information. That is true, and that is free, but my point is £10 is not a lot to spend to give the enemy an extra chance to cock-up and send you something they might wish they hadn't.

 

Check this out, and spend many hours there reading about CPR, it will be time well spent:

 

Procedure rules - Ministry of Justice

 

Thus, using both a CPR 18 Request and a SAR, could tease out some extra detail. Plus it gives you the opportunity to compare what they send back.

 

Being really pedantic, it's probably worth another £1 to send them a s78(1) Request just for the hell of it, again, this is just to see what comes back. Others will say it's not needed, but one of my strengths when fighting the grasping bankers, is that I have kept detailed records from day one. To that I have added more via CCA Requests and SAR, and then via CPR if they want a stand up fight in Court.

 

My experience is to use every last avenue you can to get information. All information is useful, and sometimes something really tasty pops out that can make their life very troublesome.

 

AOS Deadline

 

To stress, you must not blow that. So you must file your AOS on-line ahead of the Deadline. Do not wait and just post the Form, because it won't get there in time, given the double bubble Public Holidays we have coming up this weekend.

 

If you are going to defend, then you may as well get the AOS off straight away, because it's very simple if you are just letting the Court know you are defending the lot. That then buys you +14 days from the AOS Deadline within which to file your Defence.

 

Right now, looking at how lame the Particulars of Claim (POC) are, this may be all the Defence you need to file:

 

Ultra Short Embarrassed Defence

 

1. The Particulars of Claim discloses no cause of action and are self evidently an abuse of process, in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR (even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system).

 

2. Further to that above the Defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The Defendant is embarrassed.

The point being you cannot defend their POC, because their POC is rubbish, so there is no point trying at this stage. Thus, we already have your strategy mapped out.

 

I would file the above Defence very close to the Defence Deadline, mainly to give yourself time to get organised, and to keep them guessing what you will come up with.

 

What to be getting on with in the Interim!

 

OK, if we assume you are happy with the AOS and Embarrassed Defence strategy, then the key now is to plan your own counter-attack against them. Don't just sit back and let this all happen, the best form of defence is attack in my opinion.

 

Please do read these Threads:

 

I think you need to read PT2537's Litigation Thread first:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ml#post2695725

 

Then have a read of NGEddie's Thread on the merits of putting in a very short Embarrassed Defence...then going for a Strike Out or Summary Judgment:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ml#post2634455

Then this one:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html#post1707671

 

The thrust of much of the above is that you need to put them on the spot, and you can use CPR 31.14 to do so, by demanding that you are allowed to make a Physical Inspection of the Agreement at their Offices. Give them 7 days, and if they don't agree, then you go straight on the offensive with an Application to the Court to obtain an Order forcing them to comply.

 

They have not even mentioned that this is a Regulated Agreement, so there are many issues they need to get right before they can walk into Court to enforce a Regulated Agreement, particularly when the Defendant is primed and ready to give them a very hard time.

 

Where is the s87(1) Default Notice for example?

 

Their POC is so full of holes that you would be very entitled to consider submitting an Application to the Court to have their Claim Struck Out and/or press for a Summary Judgment. Again, you need to read the Threads, and soon you will see what I am getting at.

 

Finally, because you are a Litigant in Person, and the Claimant a large bloaty financial boil on the backside of humanity, once you file your Defence, however short, then the Claim will be automatically transferred to your Home Court. So you do not have to worry about travelling miles to attend Court if/when the time comes.

 

Right, don't forget the AOS Deadline, or it'll be game over for you early next week!

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited April 1, 2010 by banker_rhymes_with
Clarity

[SirTrev]

Hi

 

I will defend the claim, but was away for a few days with family, andso will send the claim form back tomorrow by special delivery. I think this will just meet the deadline, but I'm now worried I may miss it by a day! Would the Easter weekend be any sort of defence if it is a day late?

 

I'll request a SAR report tomorrow too, but is it worth me phoning the court to check if I am in time, and if not driving to Northampton with the form?

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello SirTrev!

 

You should be able to File your AOS on-line.

 

Check the documents, and there should be a URL and log-in password for you to use.

 

Once in, you can file the AOS this evening and be done with it!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello SirTrev!

 

Just reminded myself what an N1 from Northampton looks like!

 

You need to look at the blue Claim Form, then towards the middle over on the right should be a white box headed Important Notice...in there should be the URL:

 

www.moneyclaim.gov.uk

 

...and within the Text it'll tell you to log-in using your Claim Number from the same Form, and a Password they will give you.

 

Can you see that? The password I mean!

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited April 5, 2010 by banker_rhymes_with
Clarity.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello SirTrev!

 

...is it worth me phoning the court to check if I am in time, and if not driving to Northampton with the form?

 

It's VIP that you get the AOS in on time, or they could win by default.

 

From the dates you gave earlier, I think the AOS Deadline is tomorrow!

 

If so, then you must file your AOS on-line either this evening or by tomorrow evening, but don't blow the Deadline.

 

Driving to Northampton would be wise if you cannot log in, but call the Court and they may advise. We have had a double Public Holiday, so they may say you would be OK to get the Form back by Wednesday, but take care. You don't want to blow this by failing to meet the AOS Deadline!

 

I did try to warn you...

 

Right, don't forget the AOS Deadline, or it'll be game over for you early next week!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[SirTrev]

Hi

 

I've sent off the AOS, and checked with the court that it will be there in time if received tomorrow. I will also follow the points raised above and make the appropriate applications.

 

You mentioned having the case transferred to our local court, so does that mean that we may have to attend, or can it all be done without attending?

 

The ball is well and truely rolling now!!!

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello SirTrev!

 

You should be able to File your AOS on-line...have you tried that?

 

If so, you can do it this evening and not miss the Deadline.

 

I appreciate the Court may say all is OK, but watch your back, because the other side may not see it that way.

 

If you can get it done this evening via MCOL (the URL above I mentioned), then that would nail it within time.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[SirTrev]

Hi

 

Just noticed that my reply doesn't seem to have been posted!

 

I have sent in my claim and am defending the whole claim, so the ball is well and truely rolling. I'll be sending the SAR and following your points above.

 

BRW, you mentioned having the case transferred to a local court, is a personal appearance likely to be necessary?

 

Thanks again