CL Finance/cohen Claimform - old Virgin Money Credit Card Debt ****WON****

[gh2008]

you don't need a copy of the order, they will have that

 

I thought you had received the docs at detailed above albeit incomplete ......

[pigland]

Only by chance, as they sent them to a property I let out and not to my PO Box.

 

The order is for them to comply!

Edited March 25, 2010 by pigland

[gh2008]

By lying you have a very good chance of the other side producing this thread in Court and asking you to explain.......

 

hmmmm......

 

Why don't you just write a letter explaining what parts of the order they have not complied with and why you need the information.

 

I have tried to help by pointing out all the info you need.

[pigland]

Gh,

 

Perhaps I should have written nearly all! I certainly wouldn't lower myself to their standards; lying, reconstituting agreements, ignoring addresses, extortion, harassment, etc.

 

Do I suggest an Unless order in a letter to the court?

 

Thank you for your help

PL

Edited March 25, 2010 by pigland

[diddydicky]

if you are making an application i think it needs to be done on forms and not by personal letter to the judge

 

not read the thread but if they have not provided the documents referrred to in the POC then you cannot defend what you dont know- if they have not complied with CPR requests or court orders for production then you need (IMO ) to apply to the court for directions or an unless order

 

doing it by private letter does not go down well with most courts- they want the forms filled and the fee paid

[pigland]

Thanks Diddydick,

 

They've not complied fully.

 

'then you need (IMO ) to apply to the court for directions or an unless order'

 

What's (IMO)?

 

Sorry for being fick!

 

PL

Edited March 25, 2010 by pigland

[citizenB]

 

What's (IMO)

 

Sorry for being fick!

 

PL

 

In My Opinion

 

Can also be written as "IMHO" In My Humble Opinion

[gh2008]

Ta dd,

 

there has already been an Order from the Court that the claimant has half complied with but not fully and not enough to

a) prove they lawfully own the debt and have cause of action in their own name

b) that there is an enforceable agreement

c) there was a compliant DN and

d) hmmm

 

If you do need to make an app it would be without a hearing so only £35 and you wouldn't have to pay that if you are exempt see ex160

Edited March 25, 2010 by gh2008
cB beat me to it - this time ;)

[pigland]

Thanks all,

 

Learning a lot here, my poor family now has to put up with me talking in abbreviations!

 

DAKWFIN

 

Does anybody know what form I need?

 

Kr

 

PL

[gh2008]

n244

[gh2008]

Hang on - you went to the Court and they said don't bother with the application just write a letter.

 

We're going round in circles here .........

 

Back to the letter PL saves £35

[gh2008]

here you are something to get you started

 

District Judge ******

C/O The Court Manager

****** County Court

Court Address

Postcode

 

[date]

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

##### -v- [You]

Claim No:********

 

I, the Defendant in this case, refer to the claim as detailed above and specifically the Order made by District Judge ***** dated [date]

 

I wish to inform the Court that the Claimant has not complied with the order in that it has not served upon me all the documents as ordered.

 

detail what's missing or illegible or whatever

 

It is submitted that the Claimant's non-compliance creates a significant imbalance between the parties, which I believe to be contrary to the Overriding Objective. This imbalance is particularly exacerbated by the fact that the Claimant is represented by specialist solicitors, whereas I am a litigant in person.

 

I am unable to submit a fully particularised Defence as, not only am I not able to examine properly the alleged agreement or Default Notice, but I am not even able to ascertain whether the Claimant is in fact even the lawful owner of the alleged account.

 

Accordingly, it is respectfully suggested that the court may be minded to make an order pursuant to Rule 3.4(2)© of the Civil Procedure Rules, or other such order as the court deems just.

 

Yours faithfully

 

something like that - it will get you started

[pigland]

Gh,

 

Thank you, So i'll now send a letter

 

Kind regards,

 

PL

 

And of course big thanks to Citizenb and DD

Edited March 25, 2010 by pigland

[pigland]

Shall I post my letter up for comment?

[bazaar]

Always best to, minus the personal stuff of course

[pigland]

Hi Bazaar,

 

What personal stuff?

 

Kind regards,

 

PL

[gh2008]

like your name ....... the court case number ...... anything that personally identifies you ....

[pigland]

Thanks all,

 

I went to the Court today and they accepted the letter. To date they've heard no more from CL Finance.

 

Re; CL Finance Limited v Miss D Screet

Case No; xxxxx

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I, the Defendant in this case, refer to the claim as detailed above and specifically the Order made by District Judge xxx dated xx 2010

 

The Claimant did not serve the papers to the correct address, I did eventually manage to track the paperwork down. I did not get a copy by the xx March 2010, therefore I have not been able to reply on time.

 

I wish to inform the Court that the Claimant has not complied with the order in that it has not served upon me all the documents as ordered.

 

The alleged credit card agreement is illegible.

 

There is no Default Notice compliant with s87(1) Consumer credit Act 1974 and Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/16561) as amended, together with proof of service.

 

There is no deed of assignment.

 

No Notice of Assignment, with proof of service of the same compliant with s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

There is not a full and complete statement of account including all payments made and charges applied covering the period beginning with the day of the making of the agreement and ending on the date of the commencement of this case.

 

It is submitted that the Claimant's non-compliance creates a significant imbalance between the parties, which I believe to be contrary to the Overriding Objective. This imbalance is particularly exacerbated by the fact that the Claimant is represented by specialist solicitors, whereas I am a litigant in person.

 

I have not been able to submit a fully particularised Defence as, not only am I not able to examine properly the alleged agreement or Default Notice, but I am not even able to ascertain whether the Claimant is in fact even the lawful owner of the alleged account.

 

Accordingly, it is respectfully suggested that the court may be minded to make an order pursuant to Rule 3.4(2)© of the Civil Procedure Rules, or other such order as the court deems just.

 

Yours faithfully

 

So now I suppose I just wait?

 

Kind regards,

 

 

PL

[gh2008]

So now I suppose I just wait?

 

Nope, you search out as many similar cases as you can on CAG and read. read, read.

 

Also read the CPR - Parts and Practice Directions and the Current CCA

 

That way you should be able to fully understand what you actually wrote in that letter and be better prepared for whatever happens next.

 

Good luck

[bazaar]

I'll second GH's comments, you need to be fully prepared to back up what youve sent to court, the other side will definitely try to confuse, so its in your interest to have answers ready to swat theirs away.

[pigland]

Hi all,

 

I have received this from the court:

 

Re; CL v Miss D Screet

Case no; xxxx

 

I write to you with regard to your letter dated xxx 2010

 

This was referred to the District Judge who has made the following comments;

 

'The defendant would need to make an application on notice supported with evidence if she wishes the court to consider striking out the claimants claim'

 

I assume this means I now fill out the N244 form and pay £35?

Edited April 14, 2010 by pigland

[bazaar]

Yes, they want their money, sometimes a letter works, but this time not.

Draft up the details, so someone can make sure you get it as good as you can

[pigland]

Hi all,

 

Help required with N244

 

Bringing up to speed;

 

I put in an embarrassed defence (Post 1)

The court ordered the claimant send in all documents (post 4)

 

The claimants sent;

 

1 An illegible alleged agreement with a signature. They attached some terms & conditions where they have typed my name and address on, these are quite obviously nothing to do with the original alleged agreement.

 

2 A default notice that doesn't seem to comply. (Not 14 days)

 

3 There is no deed of assignment.

 

4 A copy of a letter dated 6th March 2009 from Lewis Group. in a box it says

 

'We hereby give you notice that MBNA have by an assignment dated xx February 2009 and made between MBNA and CL Finance assigned to CL Finance absolutely a debt in the sum of £XXXX due and owing by you to them*for the balance due under reference xxxx and you are required to pay the same to the benefit of CL Finance accordingly'.

 

Earlier in the thread I assumed this was a Notice of Assignment. It doesn't look the same as others on CAG so I have now realised this is just a letter from Lewis Debt Recovery. As such they have not supplied a Notice of Assignment, I do not recollect ever receiving one. Therefore I do not believe they legally own the alleged debt.

 

 

5 They have only sent Statements ranging from January 2008 to January 2009 even though the alleged agreement started in 2004.

 

I should have filed an amended defence by xx March 2010, as I felt the Claimants hadn't complied with the order; I sent a letter under the direction of the Court office (post 36). I then received a response back from the court (post 39)

 

Q; I haven't put in an amended defence; I assume I don't have to comply with putting in my witness statement by 20 April and just need to submit the N244 for now?

 

Referring to form N244 Section 3; What order are you asking the court to make and why?

 

This is how I am looking to fill out this part of the form; (Please amend if necessary)

 

I, the Defendant in this case wish to inform the Court that;

 

The Claimant served limited documentation to the incorrect address, I eventually tracked them down and did not get a copy by the xxth March 2010. Therefore I have not been able to reply in time. (see letter to the court dated xx March).

 

The Claimant has failed to comply in full with the Order made by Judge xxxx dated xxxx February 2010.

 

1 The alleged credit card agreement is illegible. This agreement must comply with the Consumer Credit Act of 1974 in order to establish their right to enforce the debt. *The claimant has attached to the alleged agreement some terms that do not appear to form part of the alleged illegible agreement.

 

2 The Claimant have supplied a default notice but this is incorrect due to not enough time being given.

There is no proof of service.

 

3 There is no deed of assignment.

 

4 There is no Notice of Assignment, with proof of service of the same compliant with s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

5 There is not a full and complete statement of account including all payments made and charges applied covering the period beginning with the day of the making of the agreement and ending on the date of the commencement of this case.

 

It is submitted that the Claimant's non-compliance creates a significant imbalance between the parties, which I believe to be contrary to the Overriding Objective. This imbalance is particularly exacerbated by the fact that the Claimant is represented by specialist Solicitors, whereas I am a litigant in person.

 

The Claimant has had every opportunity to file all the documentation, it is not unreasonable for them to have filed such documentation on time at the first opportunity. I have not been able to submit a fully particularised Defence as; not only am I not able to examine properly the alleged agreement, but I am not even able to ascertain whether the Claimant is in fact even the lawful owner of the alleged account.

 

Q; At this point do I ask here for an 'unless' Order for them to comply and if they don't comply do I ask for a strike out if so how would I term it?

 

 

Section 4; Have you attached a draft of the order you are applying for?

Is this covered above?

 

Section 10; What information will you be relying on, in support of your information;

the attached witness statement

The statement of case

the evidence set out in the box below

Q; What do I put here?

 

Thank you for all your help.

 

PL

[citizenB]

I will ask site team for some help.. I dont really understand what you are doing.

 

You would need to attach draft directions I think. Plus it might be a good idea to turn the above into a witness statement and attach it to the N244.

 

Have hit the triangle for you.

[pigland]

Thank you,

 

Citizen B

 

PL