8 bank meetings now court

[love bug]

oops done it twice. What a nutter.

 

Dont think are do that. ha ha

[emandcole]

Yeah that was fine. Have added this for you though if you'd like to use it. First letter is for the court manager so print that and include a copy of the second letter for their records.

 

The second letter just goes off to the defence.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Send following to court manager with copy of bottom letter

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to inform you of concerns I have with the actions of the defence in the above referenced case (Make sure you supply the case number above) and wish to lodge these in good time with the court. Previously the defendants’ representatives provided me with their skeleton argument via e-mail the night before the hearing.

 

I chose to tolerate this in the overriding interest of the court but do not wish to be subjected to similar conduct for a second time.

 

Please find attached copy letter of the reminder letter I have sent to the defence warning them that any decision to do the same for a second time is likely to result in my request for adjournment and associated costs.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

Enc Copy Letter Issued To Defendant

 

 

 

 

Send via recorded to the defence

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I have today written to the court regarding your prior conduct and wish to advise you that I will not tolerate the late provision of your defence, as was the case last time when you chose to issue your defence via e-mail the night before the hearing. I chose to tolerate this in the overriding interests of the court.

 

Be advised I will not be as forgiving a second time and indeed, if I am provided with your defence in a similar manner again I will make an immediate request to the judge for adjournment with costs to be met by yourselves.

 

I would add I find the use of e-mail to be wholly inappropriate for such important matters and politely request that such information is delivered via a recorded service in the traditional manner.

 

You are more than aware of the order of the court dated (INSERT DATE) and I expect you to follow this fully and without deviation. I look forward therefore to receiving copies of your defence in good time. If you anticipate you are unable to meet the order of the court you should notify the court and myself immediately so that I can attempt to accommodate this. I therefore await your response in good time.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

CC (INSERT COURT NAME) Manager

[love bug]

Well all done. Handed the copies to the court and sent the same recorded post to them.

Will have to sit back and see what happens now. In a game of chess, I would say "your move" I think.

Googled the address of the barrister, which was on there letter. Its full of Qcs and lords.

Its a very high class outfit, It must of cost the bank a fortune to sent him down from london. Bit worried now.

[emandcole]

Well all done. Handed the copies to the court and sent the same recorded post to them.

Will have to sit back and see what happens now. In a game of chess, I would say "your move" I think.

Googled the address of the barrister, which was on there letter. Its full of Qcs and lords.

Its a very high class outfit, It must of cost the bank a fortune to sent him down from london. Bit worried now.

 

First off banks won't blow cash on cases they are not worried about so clearly you have them concerned.

 

Secondly a barrister cannot distort the law, they will however persuade an ignorant judge to agree with them wherever your claim is weak.

 

The bank also instructs a barrister in an effort to intimidate you. As long as your case is well constructed and based on sound legal principle the judge will have to give your submission full credibility.

 

It is essential therefore that you know your argument inside out and have done as much research as possible. Going back to earlier posts you will recall the need for objectivity?

 

Only with this will you have a greater chance of recognising and addressing areas of your claim that the defence are likely to pounce on. Get there before them so you can head that off. Preperation is everything and make sure you comply with the court at all times

[love bug]

Preperation as in need to write out a opening and closing speach.

 

Just need to put all the details together and make it flow. Will have to have a big sit down and come up with a well put together little number.

 

thanks for all of your input, been a great help! Hopefully, they will realise that they dont want to go to court and just give me the compensation i deserve!! well, i live in hope anyway!!

[love bug]

Right where to start :

 

Recieved a bundle from Cobbetts today, including a witness statement from the Senior Legal Advisor of the Royal Bank of Scotland!! Which pretty much detailed all that has taken place.

 

Having looked through all the paperwork, i have realised that the SAR they sent to me, was missing pieces of information, which Cobbetts have!

Hmmm..that doesn't seem right to me that they left out copies of notes made by the Bank Manager which put the bank in a bad light.

Also, the bank dont seem to have the original copy of the loan agreement, only a copy of the one i had sent in my bundle?

It is now a week untill the court case, and i have only just recieved their bundle...... They emailed me earlier with another offer, which was still a lot lower than what i feel i am owed...so off to court it seems like!!!

Dont know what to do next really.....

[emandcole]

Right where to start :

 

Recieved a bundle from Cobbetts today, including a witness statement from the Senior Legal Advisor of the Royal Bank of Scotland!! Which pretty much detailed all that has taken place.

 

Having looked through all the paperwork, i have realised that the SAR they sent to me, was missing pieces of information, which Cobbetts have!

Hmmm..that doesn't seem right to me that they left out copies of notes made by the Bank Manager which put the bank in a bad light.

Also, the bank dont seem to have the original copy of the loan agreement, only a copy of the one i had sent in my bundle?

It is now a week untill the court case, and i have only just recieved their bundle...... They emailed me earlier with another offer, which was still a lot lower than what i feel i am owed...so off to court it seems like!!!

Dont know what to do next really.....

 

I would certainly be very keen to ask the bank why they failed to supply documentation that puts them in a bad light when Cobbetts supplied the same to you quite freely. The bank has an obligation to disclose not just what is good or neutral for them, but everything including anything that may lessen their chances of winning.

 

Not sure what sort of disclosure the judge may have ordered for your case as have forgotten the numbers involved as well but if you refer to CPR 31.6 you'll read the following.

 

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See also Practice Direction 31

Part 31 DISCLOSURE AND INSPECTION OF DOCUMENTS

 

Contents of this Part Title Number Scope of this Part Rule 31.1 Meaning of disclosure Rule 31.2 Right of inspection of a disclosed document Rule 31.3 Meaning of document Rule 31.4 Disclosure limited to standard disclosure Rule 31.5 Standard disclosure – what documents are to be disclosed Rule 31.6 Duty of search Rule 31.7 Duty of disclosure limited to documents which are or have been in a party’s control Rule 31.8 Disclosure of copies Rule 31.9 Procedure for standard disclosure Rule 31.10 Duty of disclosure continues during proceedings Rule 31.11 Specific disclosure or inspection Rule 31.12 Disclosure in stages Rule 31.13 Documents referred to in statements of case etc. Rule 31.14 Inspection and copying of documents Rule 31.15 Disclosure before proceedings start Rule 31.16 Orders for disclosure against a person not a party Rule 31.17 Rules not to limit other powers of the court to order disclosure Rule 31.18 Claim to withhold inspection or disclosure of a document Rule 31.19 Restriction on use of a privileged document inspection of which has been inadvertently allowed Rule 31.20 Consequence of failure to disclose documents or permit inspection Rule 31.21 Subsequent use of disclosed documents Rule 31.22 False disclosure statements Rule 31.23

Scope of this Part

 

31.1

 

(1) This Part sets out rules about the disclosure and inspection of documents.

 

(2) This Part applies to all claims except a claim on the small claims track.

 

 

Meaning of disclosure

 

31.2

 

A party discloses a document by stating that the document exists or has existed.

 

 

Right of inspection of a disclosed document

 

31.3

 

(1) A party to whom a document has been disclosed has a right to inspect that document except where –

(a) the document is no longer in the control of the party who disclosed it;

 

(b) the party disclosing the document has a right or a duty to withhold inspection of it; or

 

© paragraph (2) applies.

 

(Rule 31.8 sets out when a document is in the control of a party)

(Rule 31.19 sets out the procedure for claiming a right or duty to withhold inspection)

 

(2) Where a party considers that it would be disproportionate to the issues in the case to permit inspection of documents within a category or class of document disclosed under rule 31.6(b) –

(a) he is not required to permit inspection of documents within that category or class; but

 

(b) he must state in his disclosure statement that inspection of those documents will not be permitted on the grounds that to do so would be disproportionate.

 

(Rule 31.6 provides for standard disclosure)

(Rule 31.10 makes provision for a disclosure statement)

(Rule 31.12 provides for a party to apply for an order for specific inspection of documents)

 

 

Meaning of document

 

31.4

 

In this Part –

‘document’ means anything in which information of any description is recorded; and

‘copy’, in relation to a document, means anything onto which information recorded in the document has been copied, by whatever means and whether directly or indirectly.

 

 

 

Disclosure limited to standard disclosure

 

31.5

 

(1) An order to give disclosure is an order to give standard disclosure unless the court directs otherwise.

 

(2) The court may dispense with or limit standard disclosure.

 

(3) The parties may agree in writing to dispense with or to limit standard disclosure.

 

(The court may make an order requiring standard disclosure under rule 28.3 which deals with directions in relation to cases on the fast track and under rule 29.2 which deals with case management in relation to cases on the multi-track)

 

Standard disclosure – what documents are to be disclosed

 

31.6

 

Standard disclosure requires a party to disclose only –

 

 

(a) the documents on which he relies; and

 

(b) the documents which –

(i) adversely affect his own case;

 

(ii) adversely affect another party’s case; or

 

(iii) support another party’s case; and

 

 

© the documents which he is required to disclose by a relevant practice direction.

 

 

It may be worth a quick email, with copies kept of course for your own records, to this top legal officer of the bank asking why the SAR appears to have been completed minus the banking notes made by the bank manager when you have obtained them elsewhere from another source. Ask the question in its purest form, why has the bank not provided these notes?

 

 

 

Not good for them to have withheld such information and suspician wil only be aroused when you mention this to the court I'm sure. Neither party should be hiding anything and to be able to expose the other side to this sort of behaviour, espceially at this very late stage is something of a bonus for you.

 

 

 

 

 

You might find them start to wriggle a little more if they realise you know what you know possibly resulting in a last minute settlement more to the tune of the amount claimed.

 

Finally, what were the orders of the judge concerning provision of documents to either side? A week seems a little late. Have they not met the directions of the court? Check your court paperwork if you would.

[emandcole]

Didn't mean to add all of that but it won't let me remove it now.

 

The 31.6 is the main bit for you here

[love bug]

It states allocated to small track.

standard directions apply.

and about all documents no later than 14 days before the hearing.

 

So a email to there little helper is needed I think.

Will have to put the thinking cap back on.

 

Will start it: without prejudice

save as to costs

[emandcole]

It states allocated to small track.

standard directions apply.

and about all documents no later than 14 days before the hearing.

 

So a email to there little helper is needed I think.

Will have to put the thinking cap back on.

 

Will start it: without prejudice

save as to costs

 

Certainly. I'd ask why there are major discrepencies between what the bank has supplied and what you have obtained elsewhere

 

Bet they'll be chuffed.

[love bug]

Dear xxx,

 

Section 4 of your way of service dated the 2nd of August 2010, ( which is seven days before the hearing and not the 14 days as directed by the court.)

 

Standard disclosure- What documents are to be disclosed 31.6, mainly 31.6 b (i) adversely affect his own case.

 

Why the Subject Access Request appears to have been completed, minus the banking notes made by the Bank Mananger, when i have now obtained them elsewhere from another source. The question is simple, why has the bank not provided these notes?

 

The Bank has an obligation to disclose not just what is good or neutral to them, but everything that may lessen their chances of winning, especially after taking into account the 93 days to present these documents in the Subject Access Request.

I respectfully suggest that your client review their position in light of the enclosed precendents and pay me the relatively modest sum i have asked for in my claim form.

 

Yours faithfully.......

Edited August 4, 2010 by love bug
spelling

[emandcole]

Dear xxx,

 

Section 4 of your way of service dated the 2nd of August 2010, ( which is seven days before the hearing and not the 14 days as directed by the court.)

 

Standard disclosure- What documents are to be disclosed 31.6, mainly 31.6 b (i) adversely affect his own case.

 

Why the Subject Access Request appears to have been completed, minus the banking notes made by the Bank Mananger, when i have now obtained them elsewhere from another source. The question is simple, why has the bank not provided these notes?

 

The Bank has an obligation to disclose not just what is good or neutral to them, but everything that may lessen their chances of winning, especially after taking into account the 93 days to present these documents in the Subject Access Request.

I respectfully suggest that your client review their position in light of the enclosed precendents and pay me the relatively modest sum i have asked for in my claim form.

 

Yours faithfully.......

 

Don't suggest anything, just inform them so they are under no illusion that you will bring this to the attention of the court. Not only are they late but they appear to have left information out contrary to standard rules of disclosure. You are merely asking them why.

 

Don't be accusative, just steer things along and point things out. If they think its enough of a problem they'll act. If they don't then carry on as normal and ensure the court is aware of their actions.

[love bug]

Well had a couple of phone calls on friday, Was informed that the offer was way to high in his opinon.

Gave me a hour to think about it.

Now been told the barrister is coming down to court on tuesday and I will not be able to claim costs and they are preparing the papers.

Just a thought but it is way to late to put anything else in now.

 

E mails must of gave them something to think about, plus there legal bill is at 3k at the moment.

[emandcole]

I take it all of that was not in writing?

 

When is the hearing?

 

What are you wanting to include or add at this stage?

 

As for you not being able to claim costs is he referring to the part 36 offer and the risk of you not beating that offer in court?

 

Part of the games I expect. I very much doubt the bank wish to see this in court and risk getting a bloody nose. As for the barrister who are they using?

[love bug]

Had about 15 phone calls in the end. Just got last minute nerves and ground down by it all.

All done now, just wish I went in the little room,(court).

Its just all the calls started to grind me down, (cant say he didnt do his job then).

Oh well a win is a win.

Thank you so much for your help.I really do mean that.

Just a bit annoyed I didnt go toe to toe with him again. Nerves got the best of me.

 

Again thank you.

[patrickq1]

very well done, so at least you know how to handle yourself and ten times more wiser for being an active cagger so well done LB

patrickq1