Letter from Barclays - claim stayed

[Gertrude]

Hi

My claim has been stayed at the County Court. Just received a letter from Barclays stating "We do not belive that there is any legal basis on which the amount of the charges can be challenged and we are satisfied that the bank charges you seek to reclaim were properly charged. The final outcome of the legal proceedings confirms our position. We are therefor not upholding your complaint and we will not be refunding the bank charges you have complained about. If we do not hear from you within the next 8 weeks I will consider your complaint to be resolved and accordingly I will close our file.

If you still have a County Court claim this will be addressed separately."

 

Could someone tell me if I have to reply to this letter or (worried about the 8 week bit) or do I just wait for some other letter to come from the Courts?

 

I just don't trust the little weasles.

 

Thanks

 

Gertrude

[BankFodder]

It is quite likley that you will receive a letter from the court telling you that your claim has been struck out and giving you 7 days to object.

 

The unfair thing about it is that the banks simply write to the courts asking them to strikeout claims.

However, the customer/claimant has to file an N244 and pay a fee of between £40 and £75.

 

If you want to contiue with your claim then the best thing you can do is to write to the court and ask to them to lift the stay so that you can proceed.

 

However, I am sure that you will need to amend you claim and you will have to ask for permission to do that too.

 

Can you tell us a bit more about your claim - and also I am very keen to know the full tect of the letter which you have received.

I have seen elsewhere on the forum a wholly misleading letter saying that the Supreme Court had ruled out claims being brought under reg.5 UTCCR.

[Gertrude]

Hi Bankfodder

My claim was for unfair bank charges for £2400.00 + interest, they offered my £1800 before court which I refused, and I went to court on 7/9/07. The letter they sent is typed below:

Letter dated 19th Feb 2010

 

We refer to your complaint relating to bank charges which was previously stayed under the terms of the FSA Waiver. The Waiver has now lapsed and we are therefore writing to you to respond to your complaint. We consider your complaint to have been about the level, and accordingly the fairness or lawfulness, of these charges.

 

As you will be aware when we last wrote to you, we (and several other banks) entered into agreed legal proceedings with the Office of Fair Trading in relation to bank charges on 27 July 2007 in order to determine their legality.

 

Following the Supreme Court decision on 25th November 2009, there is now a final outcome for these legal proceedings which means that the bank charges you have complained about do not amount to penalties at common law and that their level cannot be assesased for fairness under the Unfair Terms consumer Contract Regulations (UTTCRs). We do not believe that there is any legal basis on which the amount of the charges can be challenged and we are satisfied that the bank charges you seek to reclaim were properly charged. The final outcome of the legal proceedings confirms our position.

 

If you complaint relates to a different issue or you wish to discuss this matter further, please do not hesitate to contact us on the number above. You may also finf the following link to our website useful in answering any questions you may have www.barclays.co.uk.

 

Our aim is to resolve all complaints internally, although we recognise this may not always be possible. If we are unable to agree a way forward you may be able to ask the FOS to review your complaint and we will help you if you would like us to do this. Before you dec ide whether or not to take your complaint to FOS, you may find it helpful to consider the information about this subject on their webiste FAQs complaints about bank charges.

 

If we do not hear from you within the next 8 weeks I will consider your complaint to be resolved and accordingly I will close our file.

 

If you still have a County Court claim this will be addressed separately.

Yours sincerely

Neil Henderson

Retail Banking Customer Relations Director

 

Thanks

Gertrude

[BankFodder]

Can we know what your POC said?

[Gertrude]

Hi Bankfodder

POC as follows:

1. The claimant has an account with the Defendant which was opened on 19th Jan 1998.

 

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between intself and the Claimant.

 

3. A list of charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

a)The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; are are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999); the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

 

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £2400.00 and any interest charged thereon;

b) Court costsl;

c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act as set out on the attached list of charges or at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

6) Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act (1982).

 

Gertrude

[slick132]

Hi Gertie,

 

Wasn't yours the case where the bank were ordered by the judge NOT to charge make any further charges pending the outcome of the OFT case.

 

Has the bank addressed this point or started charging you again.

 

If I recall correctly, they added charges after the judge gave this order and you had to complain. Did they stop adding charges after that?

[BankFodder]

Hi Gertie,

 

Wasn't yours the case where the bank were ordered by the judge NOT to charge make any further charges pending the outcome of the OFT case.

 

Has the bank addressed this point or started charging you again.

 

If I recall correctly, they added charges after the judge gave this order and you had to complain. Did they stop adding charges after that?

 

Is this correct?

 

Your POC is very limited and will need a substantial amendemnt if you want to continue.

 

What intrigues me also is that you haven't pleaded reg.5 in your POC and their knock back letter doesn't refer to reg.5.

 

This suggests to me that they are using their (incorrect) reg.5 knock back letter specifically to target reg.5 claims - which is a very serious evidence of wanting to mislead customers.

[BankFodder]

Could you scan me your POC and the knock back letter - and also their defence to our admin@ address please.

PDF format if possible

[Gertrude]

Hi Bankfodder

I dont have a scanner at home but I will do this at work, hope to do it today.

Yes you are right the bank did still take charges out after the judge told them not to, they also stopped my rent going through . I will scan everything I think you need.

Manya thanks

Gertrude

[Gertrude]

Hi Bankfodder

 

I cant scan paperwork until tomorrow (Tues). It will be on your site tomorrow evening.

thanks

Gertrude

[Gertrude]

Hi All

I received a letter from Barclays dated 19th Feb 2010 saying that if I still have a County Court claim (which I have) this will be addressed separately. I too am worried that Barclays will ask the courts to dismiss this case. I also looked at the template letter from Martyn Lewis's site asking Barclays to settle before I approach the courts asking for my POC to be updated. I even got as far as printing it out and putting in my details, but I am nrevous of what will happen.

I so want to carry on fighting but I feel so anxious.

Gerty

[slick132]

Hi Gertie,

 

I moved your post from Smutley's thread into your own one, so it all stays together.

 

Did you send Bankfodder the doc'ts mentioned above.

 

Also, I gather the bank continued to make charges even after being ordered to stop. Did you get these refunded.

 

If not, please confirm how much was charged, and on how many occassions, after the judge ruled that Barclays should NOT make any further charges while the case was Stayed.

 

[Gertrude]

Hi Slick132

Yes I did send the info to Bankfodder.

The bank did take out the following amounts even after the court ordered that the bank does not add bank charges to my account from 28/9/07 and the outcome of the test case as follows:

 

2/11/07 £30 Paid referral fee

21/11/07 £30 Paid referral fee

3/1/08 £30 Paid referral fee

4/1/08 £30 Paid referral fee

7/1/08 £30 Paid referral fee

15/1/08 £35 Unpaid referral fee

21/1/08 £30 Paid referral fee

(these were the ones listed in my letter to the judge) and yes they did stop my rent payment but I cant find the date at the moment, will let you know.

 

Bankfodder should have the copies of letter of the order from the Judge and the reply from Barclays (Point 13 is interesting saying it was an error on their part).

As the Court decision was final on 25/11/09 I have loads more that was taken out since Jan 08 to 25/11/09 but I will have to go through my statements and log them all.

I will do a full list for you asap up until the 25/11/09.

Gerty

[slick132]

Hi Gerty,

 

At this stage we don't need full details of every charge made but the total taken between the date of court order and 25th Nov'r would do.

 

[Gertrude]

Hi Slick132

The amount Barclays have taken out between court date 28/9/07 and end of test case 25/11/09 is £457. They have stopped my rent twice on 3/9/07 and 3/8/09.

OMG but as Barclays says it was an error!!!!!!

Gerty

[slick132]

Hi Gerty,

 

Did you complain to Barclays that their charges after your judge made his ruling were in breach of the court's order.

 

Was this done in writing and how did Barclays respond.

 

Have Barclays ever refunded any of the charges which they made in breach of the court order.

 

They said, " it was an error" - do you mean they stopped your rent payments but then paid them.

[Gertrude]

Hi Slick132

I didnt write to Barclays but I wrote to DDJ Webber on 8/11/07 and Distict Judge Rutherford on 29/1/08 staing that Barclays had taken out fees.

 

I have a Skeleton Argument on behalf of BArclays, dated 28/1/08, section 5 states as follows:

5. This is the hearing of the Claimant's application to lift the stay by a letter dated 8/11/07 on the ground that the Defendant has failed to comply with the condition of the stay as to the the addition of further bank charges to the Claimant's account. The Defendant accepts that it has added further bank charges totalling £215.00 to the Claimant's account since the stay was imposed. However, the Defendant contends that the claim should continue to be stayed pending the final determination of the Proceedings and that the stay should be unconditional. The Defendant relies on a witness statement of Rosemary Treves Brown in support of its position.

 

The witness statement of Rosemary Siobhan Treves Brown, dated 28/1/08, (Bankfodder shoudl have a copy), section 13 reads as follows:

The Defendant is fully aware that the sanction for breaching a Court order is contempt of Court, meaning such a breach could result in criminal proceedings. In light of this serious obligation, it is important to note that in these circumstances, the breach of the condition is merely as a result of error and the impracticality of compliance, as outlined above, as opposed to a posotive disregard for the terms of the order lain down by the honourable court.

 

Regarding my two rent payments being stopped. They were not paid (I had to borrow money to pay the rent) but I was charged fees.

 

If you need any letters scanned let me know and where to send them.

 

Many thanks

Gerty

[slick132]

Thanks Gerty,

 

Give BF time to respond to you although, as ever, he's v busy.

 

He may have an overview concerning how to move on with your claim AND deal with the bank's breach of the court's order not to levy further charges.

 

If you here nowt within a week, post here again and we'll review your position.

 

[Gertrude]

Thanks Slick132

 

Will do.

 

Gerty