rossendales charges

[griffin41]

hi

 

this is a bit of a long story

 

i like every one else got there council tax bill, but put off paying it ( my fault i know )

 

so after missing 2 or 3 months payments i got a letter from derby city council saying pay up or else - well i let things get to the or else part.

so one libility order later the council sent the bill to rossendails to collect the bill for them.

 

well rossendails called at my house ( i knew nothing of this visit ) first visit.

 

then they called round a second time ( i knew nothing of this visit )

 

now for visit number 3 - this time they left a notice ( walking possion order for my car ) i had seven days to pay or theyed take the car

well this time i did know theyed been so i moved the car ( sod em )

now that i knew rossendales were involved i payed the council in full including the councils charges so as far as i was concerned it was all over.

but oh no rossendales wanted £83 for 3 visits and said if i did't pay theyd come and take the car. so i complained to the council, the council said the liability order was done and finished, rossendales dont see it that way. they say the liability order still stands untill i pay there charges. the way i see it rossendales cant prove they visited the first 2 times and i didt know about the visits so how can they charge for them.

i dont mind paying for the 3rd visit as there was a letter left at the house.

 

rossendales didt collect a penny so as far as i see it they failed to collect anything or do there job. you would't pay a person if they did't do the job would you.

 

 

so can any one shed any light

 

thanks

[Thegreenpimpernel]

I hope I'm wrong, speaking as a keen amateur - not an expert, but i think you will have to pay for one visit (£24.50) and a levy fee according to the fee tables available somewhere on this site.

 

I've got a paper copy, but without knowing the amount of the liability order i can't tell you what the second amount will be.

 

Reading the regulations it seems clear they can collect to recover the liability order PLUS the fees lawfully incurred.

 

Is the car on HP / lease ?

 

What was the amount of the LO?

[dx100uk]

car its council tax!

 

there are varying answers to the issue.

 

but one thing is sure, the bailiff cannot use the [now paid liability order] to get their fees.

 

typically the fees will be £42.50 for two visits and a percentage for the value of the item in the liability order.

 

now as i say, there are varying answers to 'if' you owe the bailiffs, pers i'd ignore them, they would have to take you to the small claims court to get them [and they don't]

 

as the council are saying its cleared, i think you have gotten away with the fees issue

 

dx

[Thegreenpimpernel]

dx100uk

 

Speaking as an inquisitive learner - not challenging your opinion, but because the levy was placed while the order was still in place, does this not mean they can continue with the existing WP?

[dx100uk]

WP?

 

walkin possesions.they didn't gain entry, its a levy fee on a car they dont even know is owned by the the op.

 

might be an idea to read a few threads here...........

 

dx

[RaeUK]

dx, please don't be too harsh. Thegreenpimpernel is a new and avid learner. We all started somewhere.

He initially mentioned 'car' not because it was a PCN but because the OPs car was threatened.

It may be that time is short and you didn't mean to sound a wee bit blunt. But these little things make all the difference.

Whilst I try to stick to my comfort zone of the vulnerable, I'm very aware of the patience of my fellow caggers when I stray elsewhere and perhaps confuse my derriere with my arm joint.

Indeed, in my very early days, if it wasn't for the patience and encouragement of one or two regulars here I would have gone my merry way and forgotten all about CAG.

Instead, I'm here several hours a day being a pain in the proverbials to one and all

Best wishes.

Rae.

Edited March 12, 2010 by RaeUK
change is sometimes for changes sake.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

dx100uk

 

I said WP because that's what griffin41 said in his post.

My own understanding was that a WP is something agreed and signed by the debtor.

It's from the threads on here that i understood that a bailiff CAN levy on car - seize it if you don't pay -then it's upto you / the owner to get it back.

You can see on my thread "Help with Form 4" that i had a complaint about a ficticious levy dismissed, on the basis that the bailiff said there was a car adjacent to my premisses.

 

You may well be right, but if bailiffs and the judges don't give a s***, that's what counts at the end of the day.

 

Dx100 - i appreciate any criticism that may enlighten me or anyone else reading.

 

Kelcou - very nice of you!

[dx100uk]

no totally understood.

 

i never operate that way anyhow.

 

we're all together here to help, the more whom understand the more we can help.

 

couldn't careless less 'how' we get people upto speed, just want more people able to help. my ideas are not meant as putdown..never.

 

 

dx

 

 

nothing i say is ever specifically designed to put members down, rather get them upto speed and focused.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

We could do with resolving the issue for Griffin41

 

My understanding is that in:

 

Scenario 1.

 

Bailiff attends no levy £24.50

Bailiff attends no levy £18.00

 

Then debt / LO settled (council has not deducted fees from debtors payments)

 

Bailiff cannot levy to get the fees right????

 

But in this case Scenario 2:

 

Bailiff attends (no Levy) £24.50

Bailiff Levies on goods £ An amount according to the fee table)

 

Then debt / LO settled at council

 

Bailiff CAN seize the items already levied to get his fees.???

 

Right?

 

If he gets the wrong advice he could have to pay attendance to remove / removal fees to get his car back.

[ploddertom]

We could do with resolving the issue for Griffin41

 

My understanding is that in:

 

Scenario 1.

 

Bailiff attends no levy £24.50

 

He can only do this if he left a letter to say he'd been

 

Bailiff attends no levy £18.00

 

As above

 

Then debt / LO settled (council has not deducted fees from debtors payments)

 

Bailiff cannot levy to get the fees right????

 

But in this case Scenario 2:

 

Bailiff attends (no Levy) £24.50

Bailiff Levies on goods £ An amount according to the fee table)

 

Can't charge for visit and levy

 

Then debt / LO settled at council

 

Bailiff CAN seize the items already levied to get his fees.???

 

If Council pay Bailiff fees then LO not yet discharged.

 

Right?

 

If he gets the wrong advice he could have to pay attendance to remove / removal fees to get his car back.

 

Needs to ask for breakdown of charges applied.

 

PT

[Thegreenpimpernel]

PT

 

I agree in principle with what you have said, however, in my recent experience Council and Judge just took the bailiffs word that he left the correct documents.

 

Griffin states the LO "done and finished" with no fees deducted.

 

He should get that in writing from the council ASAP, maybe via e-mail - Simply ask "what is the status of the LO no XXXXXX"

 

If he owes something over £1000 the fees sound about right. (Well... technically correct - not right!)

 

What do you think?

[ploddertom]

PT

 

I agree in principle with what you have said, however, in my recent experience Council and Judge just took the bailiffs word that he left the correct documents.

 

Can't comment on that not knowing full facts.

 

Griffin states the LO "done and finished" with no fees deducted.

 

He should get that in writing from the council ASAP, maybe via e-mail - Simply ask "what is the status of the LO no XXXXXX"

 

If he owes something over £1000 the fees sound about right.

 

Depends on how they have worked fees out - if done as it should have been then they are saying he owed something like £2700 - needs more info.

 

(Well... technically correct - not right!)

 

What do you think?

 

The OP needs to do several things:

 

1 - contact the Council and ask:

a - how much is outstanding on the LO if anything

b - if nothing outstanding when was the LO discharged

c - have they paid the bailiff fees, if so how much & when

 

2 - contact the Bailiff Company and ask:

a - the name of the attending Bailiff and at which Court he is Certficated at

b - a breakdown of fees charged, sample letter below adapt to own needs

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account. Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges including Computer Screenshot. This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. I also require the name of the attending Bailiff and the name of the Court he was Certificated at. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

PT

[griffin41]

thanks for any input and iv read them all but know one seems to be realy sure so found out what the law is - at the end of the day if im going to take someone to court i need the facts as a juge would understand them.

so just so every one on here can have a read this is what you need to google -council tax (administration and enforcment) regulation 1992-

get ready for a real in depth read - then just when you think you understand it - read it once more. im on my tenth time but you do start to understand it. it in real leagl speak.

i think the genral person realy need to be awhere of the law.

the thing is dont let it get this bad when the council send you a letter dont do like i did and put it off. oh god its march time to start the new tax year. i think ill just pay it this year.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

The reason it's complicated is because it's not just what the reg's say, its how courts (do and have) interpreted them.

 

It's court cases that have defined the finer points. For example, you will notice that is doesn't say how many visits they can make, but the charging for two visits rule seems to consistently apply.

 

Your average solicitor seems to know next to nothing about it - less than Google!

 

There is loads of good stuff buried in older discussions on this forum.

 

Please post everything you learn, that's how this place seems to work.

[hallowitch]

there have been a few changes since 1992

 

Statutory Instrument 1998 No. 295

 

 

 

http://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/docs/Enforcement_Agent_Charges.pdf

 

most changes are to do with fees