REMOVAL NOTICE through postbox threatening forced entry! HELP!

[Peter01495]

Received on Weds (bailiff had called b4 and left a previous notice which I am afraid I threw out), it's for £1380. Today I checked and found out that is for unpaid motoring fines from 2003ish. (I had first, in error, assumed it was for Council Tax (I am paying them off seperately) but only this morning on checking realised to is from HMCS!

 

It states on the bottom in handwriting "removal will take place on or before Sat 6/3/10 (In your absence if necessary)!!!! Thus inferring FORCED ENTRY!

 

I had no idea they could this, but it seems now they can. Therefore some advice please.

 

I phoned the bailiff who was a bit bolshy at first insisting on full payment or he would force an entry. I am on Benefits and can't pay it off in full. As for time to pay, he said he could give me 2 months max. To give myself time I agreed to get him £500 by Monday 8th at 4pm, £500 that I do not have.

 

I phoned the court who said that whilst it was with the Bailiffs, they could not help in any way! Charming!

 

My situation is this. I have been suffering from and receiving medication and counselling for Depression for the past ten years and have been on Incapacity Benefit for most of that time. The offences were in 2002/3 (car tax and Insurance) and I had pretty much forgotten all about them. They were issued to my address at the time, but I have moved six times since then (including 2 periods of me and the dog sleeping in the car with wordly possessions on board!) This I am assuming is why it's taken so long to catch up with me.

 

What are my best options? I want to pay them off, but it's going to be a £10 per week job (if that much?), at least until I get myself back on my feet.

 

The original fines amount to less than £700, so there are huge fees in there.

 

Should I write to the Court and Excel under the "Vulnerable Situations" clause - will that get it taken back to the court where I could re-negotiate? Any thing else that I could do?

 

All advice and assistance gratefully received

Edited March 7, 2010 by Peter01495
amended following advise received

[RaeUK]

Hi peter01495,

You certainly sound like you should fit into the vulnerable category of the National Standards for Enforcement Agents:

 

Department for Constitutional Affairs - Enforcement - National Standards for Enforcement Agents

 

Those who might be considered vulnerable include the following:

the elderly;

people with a disability;

the seriously ill;

the recently bereaved;

single parent families;

pregnant women;

unemployed people; and,

those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.

 

Whilst they're not law, the courts and bailiffs should be working within these guidelines.

 

Two ways forward spring to mind. For both you will need to provide appropriate proof of your medical conditions from your GP and any other NHS healthcare professionals you may be using.

 

a) Write to the Court requesting a re-hearing. This will be for a means test and confirm your frailties. I'm presuming the Court has no knowledge of your current circumstances. You should then be able to agree an affordable and sustainable payment plan.

 

b) Write to the bailif firm detailing what has happened. Let them know that you are on benefits and in receipt of ongoing medical care. Inform them that confirmation will be sent under seperate cover once gained. Request that the case is returned back to the Court for assessment.

 

You can do either or both. You can also email your letters and follow with the hardcopy by signed for.

 

Best wishes.

Rae.

Edited March 6, 2010 by RaeUK
tie poo

[Peter01495]

Thanks for that - when is a Statutory Declaration applicable and what might it encompass?

[Peter01495]

a) Write to the Court requesting a re-hearing. This will be for a means test and confirm your frailties. I'm presuming the Court has no knowledge of your current circumstances. You should then be able to agree an affordable and sustainable payment plan.

 

b) Write to the bailif firm detailing what has happened. Let them know that you are on benefits and in receipt of ongoing medical care. Inform them that confirmation will be sent under seperate cover once gained. Request that the case is returned back to the Court for assessment.

 

You can do either or both.

Best wishes.

Rae.

 

To whom should I address the letter to at the court? I will actually go there and hand it in.

[RaeUK]

Personally, I'd address it to the Court Manager. Others may have a more accurate title.

If no-one answers your earlier question about statutory declarations I'll have a go later - just cooking my evening meal!

Best wishes.

Rae.

[RaeUK]

Thanks for that - when is a Statutory Declaration applicable and what might it encompass?

 

In my limited knowledge, a statutory declaration is a legal document. Whilst not taken under oath it is affirmed. In the context of this forum it could be used, for example, to declare ownership of a vehicle or personal effects.

Some solicitors provide the service for about £10 but you'd need to shop around.

Regards.

Rae.

[tomtubby]

Received on Weds (bailiff had called b4 and left a previous notice which I am afraid I threw out), it's for £1380, is issued by EXCEL. Today I checked and found out that is for unpaid motoring fines from 2003ish. (I had first, in error, assumed it was for Council Tax (I am paying them off seperately) but only this morning on checking realised to is from HMCS!

 

It states on the bottom in handwriting "removal will take place on or before Sat 6/3/10 (In your absence if necessary)!!!! Thus inferring FORCED ENTRY!

 

I had no idea they could this, but it seems now they can. Therefore some advice please.

 

I phoned the bailiff who was a bit bolshy at first insisting on full payment or he would force an entry. I am on Benefits and can't pay it off in full. As for time to pay, he said he could give me 2 months max. To give myself time I agreed to get him £500 by Monday 8th at 4pm. I would have to ask a friend for that sort of cash which I dont really want to do, and I would still not be able to find the balance in time anyhow.

 

I phoned the court who said that whilst it was with the Bailiffs, they could not help in any way! Charming!

 

My situation is this. I have been suffering from and receiving medication and counselling for Depression for the past ten years and have been on Incapacity Benefit for most of that time. The offences were in 2002/3 (car tax and Insurance) and I had pretty much forgotten all about them. They were issued to my address at the time, but I have moved six times since then (including 2 periods of me and the dog sleeping in the car with wordly possessions on board!) This I am assuming is why it's taken so long to catch up with me.

 

What are my best options? I want to pay them off, but it's going to be a £10 per week job (if that much?), at least until I get myself back on my feet.

 

The original fines amount to less than £700, so there are huge fees in there.

 

Should I write to the Court and Excel under the "Vulnerable Situations" clause - will that get it taken back to the court where I could re-negotiate? Any thing else that I could do?

 

All advice and assistance gratefully received

 

 

 

I am sorry to hear of your health problems and it would certainly appear that your circumstances are classed as vulnerable according to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents and the HMCS contract with this company does provide that consideration must be given to returning this debt back to the court.

 

HOWEVER...there are some huge problems with your post and I would seriously suggest that you use the edit button to remove somethings that you have written.

 

Firstly, many bailiff companies view these posts on CAG very often...and I PERSONALLY know of somebody at this firm who used to post on CAG !!

 

Next, if a bailiff company were to read this post they would also see that you have a "friend" who could help with making a "voluntary payment" for around half of the debt!!!

 

I am sorry to give further bad news in that you would not be able to file a Statutory Declaration. This is because a stat dec is used to for a person to "swear on oath" that you had not known of the proceedings against you". A person has 21 days for "becoming aware of the fine" to swear a stat dec.

 

We have a business that provides bailiff advice to the public and we have assisted with hundreds of Statutory Declarations and I can assure you that if the court files record that you were in court when the fine was imposed or that you have contacted the court to discuss the fine or that some payments have been made against the fine..... then it is CLEAR that you did know of the fines.

 

A letter certainly needs to be sent to the company BUT in the first place can you please obtain confirmation from the company of the fees being charged. This is because a bailiff company CANNOT apply "multiple charges" when enforcing more than one Distress Warrant.

 

Therefore, in your case can you please ask the bailiff the following:

 

How much is each Distress Warrant?

 

What fees are being charged against EACH Distress Warrant?

 

If you can post back I can provide further advice.

 

PS: Did you receive a Summons for each of these fines...if NOT then a stat dec can be done.

[Peter01495]

Thanks for that advice - the thread has been amended.

 

My question on the Stat Dec was purely academic, I had seen them mentioned but was not sure what they encompassed. Now I do and can see that one is probably not applicable, although I cannot be sure if I have in fact received each summons concerned (due to my movements) although I certainly did not attend a court hearing.

 

I will call the company on Monday morning to obtain the exact details as you have advised and will re-post then. Should I nonetheless continue with the letter to the court regarding my vulnerable situation?

 

Also, whilst I will phone the Bailiff to tell him I will be unable to make a payment on Monday afternoon, shall I make him aware of my intention to write to the court?

[Peter01495]

Regarding writing to the Bailiffs and Court regarding Vulnerable Situations, is there a standard/template letter that I would be best using?

[hallowitch]

Vulnerable Situations

 

NOTE: This letter can be adapted to suit your own circumstances and could be used to advise the company that you believe that your personal circumstances fall within the category of “vulnerable situations” and requesting that the case be returned to the local authority or accepting repayment proposals. Please refer to the list below the letter for details of vulnerable situations.

 

 

—

To: Bailiff Company

Date:

 

Dear Sirs,

Re: Account reference.

I refer to your letter dated

(enter date)

informing me that your company have been instructed by

(enter local authority)

to enforce a warrant/liability order etc against me, in respect of

(a parking charge notice/council tax etc).

In your letter you state that you will be visiting/returning to my home to

(seize/auction etc my goods.)

unless full payment of

(enter amount)

is made by return.

The purpose of this letter is to advise your company that I believe that

(my/our)

circumstances fall within the category as contained within the National Standards for Enforcement Agents of “vulnerable situations”. The reason for this is that

(explain your circumstances, and provide some evidence, if possible) see note below).

Accordingly, I would like to request that you do not visit my property as this would cause undue stress and anxiety. Instead, I would like to request that you

(return this case back to the local authority/or accept payment terms as outlined etc)

I would be grateful if you could confirm safe receipt of this letter, and confirmation that

(payment terms have been agreed/or case returned to the council)

I am copying this letter to my Local Authority.

(ensure that you keep a copy)

 

Yours Faithfully.

 

 

 

Note: The following are defined as “vulnerable groups” according to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents:

• Disabled

• The debtor or the debtor’s partner is suffering a long term illness.

• Single parent.

• Expectant mothers in the late stages of pregnancy.

• Elderly and /or infirm.

• Individuals suffering from mental confusion.

• People who are either blind or deaf.

• Persons where there has been a recent bereavement in the family.

• Those persons whose first language is not English.

• People who are in receipt of benefits.

[Peter01495]

Thanks Hallowitch, most useful.

[wonkeydonkey]

Hang in there Peter, Kelcou is the person with knowledge in this field and she will be on later. I have sent a message to her bringing attention to your post.

 

WD

[hallowitch]

Hang in there Peter, Kelcou is the person with knowledge in this field and she will be on later. I have sent a message to her bringing attention to your post.

 

WD

 

 

she writes a mean letter

[wonkeydonkey]

Thanks Hallow didn't see you were around:)

 

You are in very good hands with HW, Peter just follow the advice given:cool:

 

WD

[Peter01495]

Thanks all! It's good to know you're all out there

 

In response to tomtubby, I have found the details you asked for.

 

The Removal Notice is for 3 summons' - they add up to:-

 

The outstanding fines + £65 enforcement order each. The total requested is another £510 on top of that. Which at £170 per visit suggests either 3 visits or one visit charges 3 times. Will check on Monday. Incidentally, the lowest summons is a fine of £90, which with enforcement and a visit is now £325.00! Is that legal?

 

I am wary of putting too much on here - prying eyes et al!

[RaeUK]

TT - please follow your own advice. I have.

 

Peter - not ignoring you, will knock something up later tonight (I'm a night owl)

 

Best wishes.

Rae.

Edited March 6, 2010 by RaeUK
type o

[RaeUK]

Hi pete,

Here is a template for you [not a lot different from HW's tbh].

Please read it carefully as I have had to guess about your depression. If you've been seeing a GP for a decade then it has to be something serious. And the word does cover a multitude of things!

I like to add a weblink regarding the condition / illness. Not because I believe for one second anyone will look at it. But because - Heaven forbid! - should anything detrimental happen due to continued bailiff action then they cannot say later they didn't know. They should have looked!

Wherever possible, I use a link to the DWP's A to Z of Medical Conditions. This is the information the DWP use to assess Incapacity Benefit and Employment & Support Allowance cases. Therefore no-one can say it is not credible. There may be a better page there I could link to. Either have a peek yourself or let me know more details, PM if needs be.

I have assumed you have a Support Worker. Obviously delete if not the case.

I've waffled on a little more than intended so check the next post down!

Best wishes.

Rae.

Edited March 7, 2010 by RaeUK
tie poo

[RaeUK]

Dear Sir

 

Reference number:

 

I am writing with regard to the above account relating to a Court Warrant your company has been requested to enforce.

 

It would appear, from advice that I have received, my circumstances are classed as 'vulnerable' according to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents. The reason for this is that I am currently undergoing treatment for severe depression and have been doing so for the last 10 years. As you will be aware, depression is a mental illness which does not respond positively to external pressures and stress. As a consequence, I am also in receipt of Incapacity Benefit.

 

I will be contacting my GP and Support Worker in order to obtain evidence of my medical condition for you. This evidence will be forwarded under separate cover at the earliest opportunity.

 

In the meantime, please visit the following site for further information:

 

What is Depressive Illness - DWP

 

As the current situation is having an aggravated and detrimental affect on my health, I would like to formally request that this account be referred back to XXX Court in order that an affordable and sustainable payment plan can be put in place.

 

I also respectfully request that, in the meantime, you do not visit my property as this would cause me further undue stress and anxiety.

 

I would be grateful if you would please confirm safe receipt of this letter.

 

A copy of this letter has also been sent to XXX Court for their information.

 

Yours faithfully.

 

 

 

Please note: This correspondence is being sent by both electronic and conventional mail.

 

................................................

 

Send this - or an amended verion or any other letter - by signed for and by email to the bailiff company. Signed for to the appropriate court with a very brief explanatory note.

Obviously we are relying on the bailiff firm understanding and working to the National Standards. Should you receive a negative response it allows you to claim the moral highground and complain at a higher level.

Needless to say, this is as well as any other advice you may receive.

Best wishes

Rae.

 

[Note to fellow Caggers: Because my letters take up a lot of space, I have tried just using an attached MS Word file. But I'm not entirely sure that people click on the link. I've now reverted back to 'big is beautiful'. Any thoughts on which is the best method???]

Edited March 7, 2010 by RaeUK
type o

[tomtubby]

Thanks all! It's good to know you're all out there

 

In response to tomtubby, I have found the details you asked for.

 

The Removal Notice is for 3 summons' - they add up to:-

 

The outstanding fines + £65 enforcement order each. The total requested is another £510 on top of that. Which at £170 per visit suggests either 3 visits or one visit charges 3 times. Will check on Monday. Incidentally, the lowest summons is a fine of £90, which with enforcement and a visit is now £325.00! Is that legal?

 

I am wary of putting too much on here - prying eyes et al!

 

 

 

Firstly, you have not edited your post correctly. You need to REMOVE the name of the bailiff company!!

 

I have a commercial company that provides bailiff advice to the public and because of the amount of enquiries that we receive, we have to write letters every day to local authorities, the Traffic Enforcement Centre , bailiff companies and the Ministry of Justice. In the case of MOJ, they have confirmed in writing that the companies under contract to them to enforce unpaid Magistrate Court fines CANNOT charge MULTIPLE CHARGES when enforcing more than one Distress Warrant to the same debtor!!!

 

You might want to send this bailiff company an e-mail to obtain proof IN WRITING from them that they are attempting to charge visit fees for EACH Warrant.

 

They cant do this!!!!

[Peter01495]

Letter re Vulnerable situation faxed and emailed to Bailiffs and Court today (Sunday) and will send them again by fax in the morning. Will SMS text the bailiff concerned advising him of the letter and informing him that I will not be able to meet him as arranged on Monday afternoon. I intend to stay with friends some 30 miles away for a few days anyway - try and de-stress and relieve an awful neck and backache from the tension this has inflicted on my body.

 

Thanks to all who have responded, tomtubby and especially Kelcou for an excellent draft letter. I shall keep the forum informed and hope to use this experience to learn and in turn help others in such distress.

 

I am still dreading the morning as I am sure that the bailiff will phone and 'create' some more down the line. I do so hope not! Anyhow, some slumber is called for. Thanks again.

[RaeUK]

Do keep us updated and in the meantime don't forget your medical evidence...

You've made a good start at trying to correct the situation. Keep your GP and any other NHS practitioners you use updated too in order to minimise the effect all this will have on your health.

Very best wishes.

Rae.

Edited March 7, 2010 by RaeUK
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