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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Poundstillpayday - My Experience

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Hi people,


Just thought I'd share my own experience of PTP and, particularly, of Mr Gerry McGuire, that seemingly well-loved (;)) PTP 'account manager'.


As per the norm, I got into a bit of bother with the vicious circle of payday loans with various companies, ending up borrowing more to pay off the o/s loans on a monthly basis. And so on. You know how it goes.


Anyway, I was lucky enough to have support and financial assistance from my father, who has helped me out of a very sticky situation. My father agreed to clear the payday loans, with me paying him back on a monthly basis until such a time as all the money he laid out was paid back.


All was fine and dandy, with my father ringing the various companies involved and paying the debts personally. Until he encountered PTP! They refused to talk to him quoting data protection. They contacted me, demanding payment, to which I replied that my father would be making payment on my behalf, had authority to do so, etc.


About 5 chasing 'standard' emails demanding payment later (clearly ignoring my email concerning payment from my father), I got a lovely email from Mr McGuire, again demanding payment, failure to do so would result in the debt being 'passed to door-to-door collectors'.


Being a solicitor (yes, even they can get into crap financially!), this veiled but pointless threat did not concern me. I reiterated the offer of payment, in full, via my father. They only had to contact him, whereby he would be happy to make payment. Mr McGuire was not satisfied with this, stating that the Data Protection Act prevented third party payments and, also and in any event, it was not 'company policy' to accept third party payment.


Again, I pointed out:


1. That the DPA certainly did not prevent third party payments and, if this argument was to be maintained, to specify the exact section that he purported to rely upon; and


2. That I couldn't give a stuff what their company policy was. If they wanted payment, in full, the offer was there. If their 'policy' did not allow this, then I invited Mr McGuire to issue Proceedings, whereby they would be partially defended on the basis that a valid offer of payment had been made and refused and, thus, although I would acknowledge the debt, I would contest the Court issue fee and claim my costs in defending the claim (which I would have succeeded in, in all probability).


Needless to say, this confused Mr McGuire somewhat, and he simply reiterated a further 4 times that the debt would be passed to door-to-door collectors. And so it went on, with me simply re-sending the email described above in response each time.


Then, the matter was passed to Clarity. The first and only letter from them advised of their interest and made an offer of early settlement at a reduced rate, some £100 less than the full debt. And yes, they did accept third party payments (as do every company I've come across save PTP). It was paid on the day of the letter.


End result? Mr McGuire's bull-headedness and refusal to use simple common sense cost PTP over £100. Better result for me, obviously. Will Mr McGuire keep his 'job'? No doubt. Should he? I'll leave that for you to decide :)


P.s. Sorry to go on a bit!

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I have just entered a payment plan with Clarity after waiting for it to be passed to them since I defaulted back in December.


I did not receive not one single telephone call from PTP and received 3 seperate escalation emails from a 'David Robinson' stating that escalation to a DCA was immenent.


My original debt was £400, do people think I will get away with paying £300 to clear the debt with Clarity? I am unlikely to afford to pay this until April - I am due a £50 installment in March.

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Make them the offer. I think it's unlikely though unless you can state that you will pay the whole £300 immediately upon acceptance of the offer, rather than by installments.

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Cheers Philmpv,


It would be literally one installment of £50 and the rest in the next month, so perhaps there may be an outside chance.


Ask the question. The worst they can do is say no. Make sure you put it as a formal offer in writing, however, and retain a copy.

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Good outcome philmpv. ;)


Wow this Mr Maguire sounds to have gone to the same charm school as Gavin Armstrong at PTP who is an absolute ................... !!! :mad:


Dealing with this company is horrible and I am just awaiting my debt to be passed to Clarity to get this matter sorted amicably as PTP do not seem to want to do anything amicably.

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