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Full & Final Offers


billyray
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Wow. That wasnt a bad offer considering it was direct from Amex. Was that for full settlement, or partial?

 

My debt is with a DCA, so I would want around 50%, but will see.

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I was recently offered 70p in the pound from Newmans. This was after I asked them to supply an executable copy of my agreement with AMEX from 1997!

 

Surprise, surprise, all I received was a copy of the application form unsigned by them and no copy of the terms and conditions.

 

I am still waiting.....

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No - I ignored it.

 

If they cannot send a copy of the executable form of the agreement - they will not be able to enforce it if it ever gets to court - think I will play the long game just now....playing them at their own game!

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I went down the othe route. I made a counter offer, will update when/if they accept.

 

But 70% from a DCA is pretty poor i reckon. 70-75% from the original creditor is fair enough. But its probably an opening gambit from them.

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Remember that if a DCA *has* purchased the debt outright, it'll be at approx 5-10% of the value, your paying 50% gives them a whacking profit margin :-(

 

I would always start at a lower amount and then up it with a final second offer.

 

If the debt is just assigned then its Amex who will decide how much and they'll want most if not all of the debt repaid :-(

 

S.

Are You as Anonymous on CAG as You Think You Are? *Link*

 

The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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How can you tell if the debt has been sold or assigned?

 

Sometimes its difficult, the DCA's tend not to want you to know for some reason.... basically if you have a notice of assignment that states they have purchased the rights and obligations of the debt then on face value they have purchased the debt... anything from a DCA stating we are acting as agents and they obviously havent purchased.

 

S.

Are You as Anonymous on CAG as You Think You Are? *Link*

 

The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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Thanks for the info shadow.

 

I think my debt with newmans is under the "acting as agents" premise. Damn.

 

Furthermore, looking at my credit file, I can only see Amex on there, and not Newman.

 

If you look around the amex forum section you'll see that they very rarely give away control, they get involved at all stages in chasing the debt.

 

It still doesnt hurt to start low and increase the offer later on, just be sure to head the offer "without prejudice save as to costs" so they cant use it in court against you.

 

S.

Are You as Anonymous on CAG as You Think You Are? *Link*

 

The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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Thanks Shadow.

 

I havent put "without prejudice save as to costs" on my letter, but I have made them an offer, without acknowledging the debt, eg said this account is in dispute etc, but to stop you hassling me, i will give u £x. I hope this is ok.

 

Judging by what you have said, it will be difficult to get a lower offer away with these. I was thinking I would get away. 50%.

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Thanks Shadow.

 

I havent put "without prejudice save as to costs" on my letter, but I have made them an offer, without acknowledging the debt, eg said this account is in dispute etc, but to stop you hassling me, i will give u £x. I hope this is ok.

 

Judging by what you have said, it will be difficult to get a lower offer away with these. I was thinking I would get away. 50%.

 

You just never know.... so many variables...

 

What the month is looking like for the bank, near quarters end for reporting and final push for any cash possible etc etc.

 

S.

Are You as Anonymous on CAG as You Think You Are? *Link*

 

The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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No joy on my F&F with Newman/Amex. They have just re-iterated what they said last time as there "best offer". They extended the deadline for this.

 

Any ideas what i do now? Do i keep increasing my offer until they bite? Ignore them for a bit?

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If you increase the offer until they bite you may find that they bite at 100%. I think you have to play harder. Remind them that the CCA if unenforceable, state that under the circumstances the f&f offer was generous, withdraw the offer and cease with the monthly payments if you haven’t yet done so. Actually, on that last part, bear in mind that they can default you for non payment. Default is not a nice place to be. On the upside if they’ve defaulted you already then it’s game on.

Edited by ManSizedRooster
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Thanks ManSizedRooster.

 

I've told them loads of times that the CCA is unenforceable but they say it is.

 

I'm not current paying them anything, but I'm noticing the amount on Newmans letters are going up.

 

They have defaulted me, and wont withdraw the default even if they accept a F&F, instead they said it would be marked as "satisfied".

 

Sort of stalemate at the moment.

 

I cant really write back and say "what's the lowest" you will go? Stonewalling me at the moment

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If you look around the amex forum section you'll see that they very rarely give away control, they get involved at all stages in chasing the debt.
Almost certainly because the Debts are not theirs to sell.

 

Their US Parent Company having Securitised them 100% over in the good old U S of A.

 

So, they have no option but to keep the Debts and chase for every penny, because they have to pay if the deal turns sour.

 

Next question, when they take you to Court, ask them if they own the Debt...and watch them shuffle and squirm.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited by banker_rhymes_with
Tripe-O
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I wonder if anyone has had a F&F accepted under 70%?

 

I reckon I'll ignore them, then they'll write to say the deadline for F&F has passed, and they will start court action.

 

So I dont know what to do, as I dont want to go to court.

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The deal on the table is currently 70%.

 

Can I write and say I will offer you 50% or 1% per month for x years, or is it too confusing for them?

 

Is 70% good with these guys?

 

On the basis of the CCA they have sent me it is unenforceable as its an application form. However, I wouldnt put it past them to take me to court anyway.

 

Any tips?

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Hello Billyray!

 

The deal on the table is currently 70%.
Don't count on that offer being genuine.

 

It's almost certainly a trick to...

 

 

  • Get you to call them so they can work their DCA telephone magic on you.

 

  • Get you to say what you can pay, so they'll know you have at least that to grab (they'll use that against you in Court if you plead poverty).

 

  • Get you to say something they can use against you (see above).

 

Note my comments above about how Arsemex are usually unable to sell these Debts because Arsemex no longer owns them. This rather neatly explains why they are so hostile...they probably have something to hide themselves.

 

Getting them to admit that is the prize!

 

Cheers,

BRW

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