DVLA Failure to notify new keeper fine court case dropped

[snooplotty]

Just recently joined this forum and would like to say a big THANKYOU for all the advice on this fine from other threads.

 

Sold a car via ebay back in Aug 08 and didn't receive a letter from the DVLA till October 09. Received a nice letter from them saying they were taking me to court over this. To cut a long story short I sent them a letter with all the legal stuff provided by this site and they dropped the case - WooHoo!!

 

I was unsure about giving them my defence in writing but it looked like it worked.

 

Letter I sent is below (in case anyone wants it)

 

 

Dear Amanda,

 

I received your letter 18/02/10 and telephoned your office as requested and spoke to one of your colleagues. He advised me to put in writing everything I told him. Please note although I have been advised NOT to disclose my defence should this matter go to court, but as a matter of goodwill on my part have decided to and hopefully this letter will resolve any issues and the court proceeding will cease.

 

I sold this car in August 2008, and mailed the V5 document via 1st class post (as I have always done when selling a car – with no problems!). It wasn’t till Late 2009 until I received a letter saying that somebody was applying to be the registered keeper of this vehicle and to ignore the letter if this was OK, so I ignored the letter. A month later I received another letter stating that I was being fined for failure to notify a change of registered keeper. I telephoned your office regarding this letter and the person I spoke to was extremely unhelpful and didn’t listen to what I had to say. Basically he told me to pay the fine or go to court. The road tax for this vehicle was due for renewal in September 2008, yet I have not received any correspondence from the DVLA in regard to this matter, which seems a bit odd to me.

 

Below are some legal points of which I have followed.

 

The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002

 

“Change of keeper: registration document issued in Great Britain on or after 24th March 1997 and the new keeper not a vehicle trader

22. (2) The registered keeper of the vehicle -

(a) if the registration document issued in respect of the vehicle is in his possession, shall deliver to the new keeper that part of the document marked as the part which is to be given to the new keeper; and

 

(b) shall forthwith deliver the remainder of the registration document to the Secretary of State, duly completed to include the following -

(i) the name and address of the new keeper;

 

(ii) the date on which the vehicle was sold or transferred to the new keeper;

 

(iii) a declaration signed by the registered keeper that the details given in accordance with paragraph (i) are correct to the best of his knowledge and that the details given in accordance with paragraph (ii) are correct; and

 

(iv) a declaration signed by the new keeper that the details given in accordance with paragraphs (i) and (ii) are correct.”

Interpretation Act 1978

 

7 References to service by post

 

“Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.”

 

 

As I previously stated I used 1st class post to “deliver” the V5 document which complies with both regulations above.

 

 

The DVLA states that I have no defence because I did not receive confirmation from them. This confirmation letter from the DVLA is not a legal requirement!

 

 

As stated in Human Rights Act 1998, Schedule 1, Article 6, section 2

 

“Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law. "

 

 

 

I have no proof of posting the V5 document because I have never done so before. I also believe that I should not have to prove that I posted the V5 document and if this matter does indeed go to court it should be down to the DVLA to prove that I did not.

 

 

I look forward to receiving your comments on this matter

[Guest wino]

Well done snooplotty:)

Thank you for posting your letter I am sure it will be invaluble to others in the future.

[pelham9]

Certainly up to fairly recently these licence offences have been criminal and dealt with by magistrates courts with a right to appeal.

 

The DVLA has gone down a different route using intimadatory DCAs with threat of civil court action and there is no right of appeal before the court action. The offences are not being treated as a ciminal matter any longer.

 

Now parking offences were at one time criminal offences and were dealt with by the police and magistrated court.

 

To make it possible for Councils to administer parking it was necessary to pass legislation to decriminalise the offence and that legislation provided an appeal procedure

 

I can find evidence that in 2003 the same process was proposed for parking offences and discussed in a draft amendment to the 1994 act but I can find no evidence that he M of T actually took the matter to parliament and that the amendment was passed.

 

Does anyone know better.

[Raykay]

Failing to notify change of keeper and failing to licence a vehicle are still criminal matters dealt with at Magistrates court, it's the Late Licensing Penalty that is a civil matter and dealt with at County Court.

 

What DVLA try very hard for is for an 'out of court settlement' instead of a summons to Magistrates Court for the criminal offences.

[angryweasel]

Unfortunately they are taking my very similar circumstances to court,went last week and has been adjourned until 25/03/10:(

[snooplotty]

They sent me a court summons for this. When I received the letter I filled out the not guilty plea. They then sent me a letter advising me to ring them which was apparantly for me to come up with an out of court settlement which I did not agree to since I did nothing wrong - Hence the letter

[Raykay]

I am sure they are aware of the implications of the Interpretation Act and the likely result at court, so they try very hard for an out of court settlement and if that doesn't work they drop they case before it is heard so as not to be liable for costs.

[traveller1]

Hi,

 

I am not really sure how to use this site but was reading this as I have a similar problem. I sold a car in 2008, posted v5 document stating new keeper as I have always done, not via registered post. I then went travelling for a year in asia and didnt think about informing dvla about address etc.

 

Now I receive a baliff removal notice from the county court for £475, which after many phonecalls to various unhelpful people i know is a £250 dvla fine plus other charges. I dont know what to do, they will try and hold ballifs for two weeks apparently, again i leave the country in a weeks time to live in USA for one year minimum. Do I have no choice but to just pay the huge amount of £???!

 

Please help if anyone can!

 

Thank you

[bertwibble]

Hi all,

 

Just thought I would post to say a big thanks for some of the advice on this forum.

 

Back in September, I sold (part-exd) my car to a dealer, filled out the V5 there and then and the dealer promised he would send the form off to the DVLA. I have sold loads of cars like this in the past and did not think there would be a problem.

 

All fine for 6 months. Then a nasty letter pops through the door from the DVLA saying I have failed to notify them of change of keeper. Pay a £35 fine now, or a £60 fine in a few weeks or go to court.

So I phoned the dealer who luckily remember me and the sale, and told me he did send the documents off. He also said that my old car was owned by a friend of his and it had been taxed in the new owners name for several months. So basically all fine - the only issue was that I did not tell the DVLA that I had not received a confirmation letter from them about the change of keeper. To be honest I could not remember if I had received the letter or not.

 

I did try phoning the DVLA to explain, but getting through is a nightmare and I gave up. So I basically copied snooplotty's letter above, tweaked it a bit for my circumstances and sent it off (recorded post). 3 weeks later I get a nice polite letter from the DVLA saying they are dropping the case and sorry for any inconvience.

 

It seems to me that the DVLA like to use bully-boy tactics and that an awful lot of people just pay the fine. Given the large number of these cases each year (there were some stats on another website somewhere) this makes for a nice revenue stream for the DVLA. I think as long as you push back with something like snooplotty's letter within a reasonable period of time then the DVLA should drop proceedings against you.

 

Anyway, enough wiffle from me. Just to say thanks.

 

BW

[nuttyburd]

I have the same problem with a car I sold in 2008 I know the new owner vis a firend of a ,friend and know that it has been taxed twice since I sold it to him, now I have recieved a letter to say I did not notify them, although I know I sent off the V5.

 

The first letter I got said if it was correct ignore the letter which I did. Now a second letter has arrived saying I owe a fine and am going to be taken to court so I am going to copy snooplotty's letter and give it a go myself. Thankyou

[Instrall83]

I have got a similar problem my car was written off by my insurance company and they told me to send all my paperwork including the v5 to the salvage company which i did. about a month after this i remembered I had the tax disc for the car and tried to claim the money back left on it but was told I was no longer the keeper so couldnt.

I have now just received a court summons from my local magistrates about failing to notify like everyone else I have no proff I sent these my insurance company are no help either. will the above letter help me?? who do isend it too DVLA or court?

[borisbeaver]

I have got a similar problem my car was written off by my insurance company and they told me to send all my paperwork including the v5 to the salvage company which i did. about a month after this i remembered I had the tax disc for the car and tried to claim the money back left on it but was told I was no longer the keeper so couldnt.

I have now just received a court summons from my local magistrates about failing to notify like everyone else I have no proff I sent these my insurance company are no help either. will the above letter help me?? who do isend it too DVLA or court?

I have just done the same thing for my written off car. I did phone the DVLA to confirm that a) they have received the car tax rebate request and b) that I am no longer responsible for the car. I get a yes to both questions. My car was collected by Bluecycle.

[rudy691]

so what is the address that people send that letter to ?

 

thx

[Instrall83]

I sent my letter along with my not guilty plea to the local DVLA office as they were down as the prosecutor on the court summons have not heard back from them yet so guess I am going to have to appear on Monday will let you know outcome

[marvintheparaniod]

I have much the same issue, and am in court on monday in Newbury, I did send a tweaked version of the above letter with my not guilty plea, so yet to see what will happen

[Instrall83]

Literally just got a letter from DVLA saying case dropped!!! Thanks Snooplotty and this site what a relief

[rudy691]

did you had the same scenario like snooplotty ? or was it something else ?

[marvintheparaniod]

Just had a call from the dvla to say they were dropping the case and sending a letter out to confirm this. (I had put my number on the not guilty plea) after using a modified form of the above letter! great work, however the case was due to be heard 10:00 AM monday and its now friday, so do I assume all is well or they are trying to stop me showing up? as the letter is likely to be 2nd class post and not with me till monday morning at earliest

[rudy691]

did you had the same scenario like snooplotty ? or was it something else ?

[marvintheparaniod]

Very similar, with the exceptio I had moved house and could not find the V5, so contacted the DVLA who told me to put in writing that I had sold the car and to inlcude the new keepers name and address. This was duely 'lost' by the DVLA, that was the only diufferance

[rudy691]

send off the same letter a week ago and received a response from DVLA saying that they're withdrawing the case !!!

 

Thanks snooplotty and everyone !

[Spotswood]

Hi, new to this, I traded a car in to a dealer, sent off my bit of the V5 of my old car the same day I picked up my new 1 (020310). I did receive notice to re tax my old vehicle in May but ignored it. I then received a letter from "the Enforcement Officer" telling me I had commited 1 of several offences and owed them at least £80.00 which could be reduced to £40.00 if I paid em quick!!

 

My response with appropriate reference to previous correspondence and the VRN was as follows

 

I am no longer the keeper of the vehicle XXXXXX, I traded it in to motor trader XXXXXXX, please see attached receipt.

 

I notified the DVLA of the change of ownership on the sale of the above vehicle and therefore fulfilled my obligations to DVLA.

 

I am therefore formally disputing your notice at Reference A, and should you wish to pursue this case you will have to take me to court.

 

On reflection this was pretty formal, however I ma in the military and that's how we write!

 

I have now received further correspondence from the enforcement officer dated 060810 which thanks me for my response , telling me I'm still liable because I did not pursue the matter when I hadn't heard from the DVLA 4 weeks after I had sent off my bit of the V5, this is rubbish isnt it? The 4 week thing has no legal validity according to this forum. Now my question is do I respond and if I do how?

[crem]

I have now received further correspondence from the enforcement officer dated 060810 which thanks me for my response , telling me I'm still liable because I did not pursue the matter when I hadn't heard from the DVLA 4 weeks after I had sent off my bit of the V5, this is rubbish isnt it? The 4 week thing has no legal validity according to this forum. Now my question is do I respond and if I do how?

 

You are correct that their "4 week" claim has no basis in law. They are trying to bluff you into paying.

 

I would reply maintaining my stance and ask them to refer you to the legislation that supports their "contact after 4 weeks" claim. Not withstanding them providing such a legal reference, which they won't because it doesn't exist, tell them you are happy to present your defence at court, including showing the court their attempt to misrepresent the law in their letter.

[Spotswood]

Crem,

Thank you. and I will reply as you advise. I have a feeling the "enforcement team" are self funding, i.e. their budget will be directly sourced from the revenue stream they produce that's why they pursue their victims in this way.

Thank you again and I will keep the forum updated

[Spotswood]

This is the letter i have sent today, I have kept the business like tone

 

Dear Mrs Wooley

I am now in receipt of Reference C, however I must inform you that this correspondence does not alter my position as stated in Reference B, i.e. I am formally disputing the penalty notice as I believe I fulfilled my obligations to DVLA by notifying them by post I was no longer the keeper of vehicle XXXXXXX, and should you wish to pursue this matter you will have to take me to court. For your information the DVLA have now acknowledged I am no longer the keeper of vehicle XXXXXX at Reference D.

I take note of your statement (line 2-3 of para 2 Reference C) which indicates I am liable for this charge because I did not pursue an acknowledgement letter that should of been generated yourselves within 4 weeks of my notification of change of keeper. It is my position that this “DVLA requirement” has no legal legitimacy and I require you to provide me with a direct reference to legal statute as you have done with other legislation with footnotes 1 and 2 of Reference C.

I do apologise for my delay in replying to Reference C, my work takes me away from my home address for significant periods of time (2-3 weeks on occasion), please be assured I will respond to further correspondence directly on my return.

 

Intepretation Act 1978 S7 Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post