Excessive charges by bailiffs

[Sassykat]

My daughter is having problems with a bailiff company. My daughter knew she had some outstanding debts with council tax and was trying to get herself sorted, so she contacted the council to find out how much she owed, they told her it had been passed to equita, she contacted them who gave her the name and number of the bailiff who was dealing with it. My daughter contacted him and was told she owed £406 on one and £404 on another and that she would be likely to go to prison if it wasnt paid, and that one had to be paid off in full, but the other could be paid in instalments. My daughter rang me in tears terrifed at the prospect of going to prison, so i agreed to pay one of these debt off in full, i did this the following week by contacting the bailiff on his mobile.

However, someone advised us to contact the council to find out what the original arrears were, which my daughter did, the arrears were £172 and £173, which totals £345,yet the bailiff are asking for a total of £810, my daughter has only ever received letters from the bailiff company and at no time has a bailiff ever attended her property, issued a levy or anything like that. my daughter is now seeking advice. Has anyone else had excessive charges added to their original debt??? and if you have, did you eventually have to pay them??

[MARTIN3030]

Bailiffs cannot say whether a person will go to Prison or not-only a court can decide that.

Looks like theres been charges added yes.

Has there no breakdown of fees been given ?

[jed52]

Have a good read of the posts on here Sassykat and you will see that there are some quite underhand tactics employed by some bailiffs.

I was overcharged by a bailiff but I pointed them out and they gave me a refund. There are strict charge rates that they have to adhere to but some clearly dont and what they charge could, I would suggest, be illegal.

Write to them and ask for a breakdown of their charges.

jed

[Sassykat]

No, we have no breakdown of fee's, nor do i have a receipt for the money i paid, althugh it is on my bank statement. We called Equita to ask for a break down of the fee's and were told we had to write in for it, which my daughter has done.

[jed52]

Good. Stick to your guns and dont let it drop.

These 'people' shouldnt be allowed to get away with this sort of thing.

jed

[hallowitch]

send this to the equita by e-mail and recorded delivery letter

 

I phoned your bailiff MR xxxxxxx who informed me that i had two liability orders outstanding and amounts owing were £406 and £404

during this phone call i was also informed that if i did not pay these debts i would go to prison

 

My mother offered to pay off 1 balance and after speaking again on the phone to Mr xxxxxx it was agreed that if i paid off one debt in full i could pay the other in instalments A payment of £406 was made on the (date)

 

I have now taken advice regarding this matter and also spoken to xxxx council who informed me that the liability orders sent to Eqita were for £172 and £173

 

I have never had a visit from MRxxxxx his phone number was given to myself during a phone call i made to your office

Any letters i have received regarding this matter have been from Equita

at no time during these phone calls did Mr xxxxx breakdown the amounts into council tax debt and bailiff charges

 

May i draw your attention to

 

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION & ENFORCEMENT) REGULATIONS 1992 (amended)2006

 

 

SCHEDULE 5 CHARGES CONNECTED WITH DISTRESS Regulation 45

 

regulations i am sure you are fully aware of

 

I can therefore only conclude from the fees that your bailiff is charging that he is not aware of the regulations or he has intentionality tried to grossly overcharge me The latter being the case i will file a form 4 complaint against him

 

I have paid £406 my liability to xxx council is £346 according to the above regulations there should be no charges on my accounts giving an overpayment of £60

I am now requesting that the overpayment be returned to me within 14 days of this recorded delivery letter

 

If you disagree with this and think there has been no overpayment please send me a screenshot of my account a breakdown of charges and a copy of your complaints procedure within the aforementioned time

 

If i do not receive the screenshot of my account an N1 form will be lodged at my local county court for the release of this information

 

 

On recipt of this information i will again file an N1 form for any overpayment and costs connected with this against Equita and xxxx council as co-defendants

 

This letter and a Formal complaint has been sent to the chief Executive of xxxx council

 

 

 

FOR YOU

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

http://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/docs/Enforcement_Agent_Charges.pdf

[Sassykat]

many thanks for your reply, a letter has already been sent via email and special delivery, along the same lines as the one you mention, although the draft you supplied is much more informative than the letter my daughter sent (wish i had found this site yesterday!). I shall let you know what happens

[selinajayne]

have a look at the nation debt helpline because you only have to pay for 2 bailliffs charges and niether amounts to £50

[hallowitch]

not to worry once you receive the reply we can take it from there

 

the letter i have posted some of it can be used if necessary for the next letter

you wont get a screenshot because that gives you to much info

info they don't have or don't want you to have as it would include things like what kind of house it was he visited what colour of door etc things he has to fill in to prove he has been at the door

 

I would send a formal complaint to your councils Chief executive and include a copy of the letter you sent Equtia

[ploddertom]

I'd play the anarchist this time, this is a classic case of what may be the F word and if so I would collect and collate all the information together and when ready would not give them the opportunity to repay but would go straight to Court - after all they give no opportunity for you to pay the correct sums due.

 

Time & time again we give these people an opportunity to right their wrongs - which they knew they had done blatantly - maybe its time we started fighting back and if a few get CCJ's, Court fines or lose their jobs then maybe the rest of the industry may sit back and think again. Some of these practices have been going on for so long they become an automatic reaction. Apart from changes to fees I don't see much will really change in 2012 despite any promises.

 

PT

[danboy381]

what a joke - bailiff telling someone they will go to prison? yeah right. On every case I have ever looked at there are 2 or 3 court hearings where in front of the judge the person wilfully refuses to pay anything and even then a suspended sentance can be given out giving the perosn time to come to their senses.

 

Bailiffs really are ****** liars theives and cheats.

and pt i think you're right, from what I'm reading there won't be much change in 2012 apart from East London becoming gridlocked.

 

If anyone is overcharged, I suggest giving the bailiff firm 7 days to refund or CCJ them - then they tend to wake up.

[lets fight bailiffs]

This must stop, and not in 2012.

 

I for one am getting so pi55ed off with what they are getting away with.

 

LFB

[danboy381]

They are theiving, and commiting fraud yet no authority seems to be interested...

[ploddertom]

I believe one of the most important parts of all this sorry tale and others like it is the role the Council play. They have fobbed their customer off to the Bailiff and appear to have totally washed their hands of what happens. If they had any ounce of compassion they should be monitoring what their contractors are doing. No doubt for a quick query the bailiffs will write back and say all is in accordance with whatever, the Council toe the bailiff line and repeat the same.

 

Only when questioned further will the truth come out and in this case it appears the bailiff has blatantly defrauded the Council's customer. He will no doubt say it is an error and the monies will be repaid. In this instance that is not enough. Compensation should be paid and not just a token either, the Bailiff in question should be sacked and prosecuted, his Company should be taken to task and at the very least issue a public apology and be warned as to their future conduct, the Council should be reported to the LGO or Audit Commission and the relevant people within the revenues Dept either sacked or retrained.

 

PT

[Sassykat]

what gets me about all of this is that no one capable of doing anything is really interested, when you say the original debt has doubled since it went to the bailiffs, they just say, 'its their fee's', almost as if its totally acceptable (this is what the council said the other day when i told them)

 

and another thing that has shocked me is that if the bailiff had actually gone to my daughters flat to levy on the goods and taken them away, not only would my daughter have lost a lot of her possesions, but she would still have a debt possibly larger than the original debt, due to the bailiff fee's,

 

none of it makes sence.

[ploddertom]

what gets me about all of this is that no one capable of doing anything is really interested, when you say the original debt has doubled since it went to the bailiffs, they just say, 'its their fee's', almost as if its totally acceptable (this is what the council said the other day when i told them)

 

and another thing that has shocked me is that if the bailiff had actually gone to my daughters flat to levy on the goods and taken them away, not only would my daughter have lost a lot of her possesions, but she would still have a debt possibly larger than the original debt, due to the bailiff fee's,

 

none of it makes sence.

 

For whatever reason the Council always appear to believe the Bailiff, as far as they are concerned the debtor has had more than ample opportunity to pay their CT bill so effectively they wash their hands of you. Personally I find what has happened in this case to be a disgrace which is why I have sounded off about it. More practically we need to help you sort it all out.

 

I note you have the details of the original Liability Orders. I know this may be a nuisance but would suggest you ring the Council again and ask how much is still outstanding and when they passed it to the Bailiff. I would mention nothing at this stage about the Bailiffs supposed fees.

 

Send the Bailiff the following - adapt to your own needs and send by email & letter:

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account. Can you please provide me with a Statement of my account including Computer Screenshot. This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. I also require the name of the attending Bailiff and the name of the Court he was Certificated at. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

Hopefully this will provide the detail of what and when they have charged their fees. If they become very evasive then it would appear they have something to hide and we can take further action.

 

See what becomes of these before the next steps.

 

PT

[Sassykat]

well today my daughter called the council tax office to find out whether they had received the money that was paid to the bailiff, they have recieved £173 out of the £406 that i paid the bailiff on my daughters behalf. the bailiff is keeping the rest as fee's!! my daughter called equita to ask something and was again told she had to write in as they only take money over the phone.. what a nightmare this is turning out to be.. ive looked at a form on the HMCS website called EX345, and in that form it makes reference to certain bailiffs being able to charge fee's, im more confused now than i was yesterday after reading that form :-?

[hallowitch]

fees for bailiff collecting council tax debt are set in statute

 

http://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/docs/Enforcement_Agent_Charges.pdf

 

in your daughters case she has not had a visit from a bailiff therefore there can be no fees

[RaeUK]

Hi sassykat.

May I ask why there is a need for you to financially help your daughter? How is she?

Best wishes.

Rae.

 

ps: I'm not as nosey as I sound! ]

Edited March 1, 2010 by RaeUK
type o

[Sassykat]

thank you...

[hallowitch]

some councils don't employ there own staff to collect council tax they contract this work out one of the firms that some councils use is capita which is part of Equita

 

when you get your breakdown of charges you will have to write to the council and mark it as formal complaint and address it to the chief executive

[Sassykat]

my daughter is currently on benefits, i helped out because there is no way she could afford to pay that on benefits and the bailiff told her over the telephone that one debt had to be paid off in full, before the other debt of £172 (£405 with bailiff charges added) could be paid by instalments, this is when he mentioned it being a primary debt which she could go to prision for.

[selinajayne]

baillifs cant send anyone to prison

dont make anymore payments to them make the payments to the council they will except payments even if it has been passed over to baillifs

[RaeUK]

Thankyou hunni.

Then your daughter may fall into the vulnerable category of the National Standards for Enforcement Agents. [see, I'm not really nosey ]

The bailiff - in an ideal world - would have discovered this and passed the case back to the council. Naughty bailiff.

Personally, if you are going to make a formal complaint then include this information. Time and time again we vulnerable people are walked on and ignored.

 

Department for Constitutional Affairs - Enforcement - National Standards for Enforcement Agents

 

Those who might be considered vulnerable include the following:

the elderly;

people with a disability;

the seriously ill;

the recently bereaved;

single parent families;

pregnant women;

unemployed people; and,

those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.

 

And whilst we're at it, from the Professionalism section: Enforcement agents must not misrepresent their powers, qualifications, capacities, experience or abilities.

 

 

Like telling vulnerable people they can go to prison!

 

 

Please complain to the council CEO, to your councillor, to your MP.

And when you do complain, if there is money still outstanding, request the council take the case back. Am happy to write a complaint if you so desire.

 

 

Best wishes

Rae.

Edited March 1, 2010 by RaeUK
Grrrrr!!!!!

[Sassykat]

but surely the bailiffs would still insist on their 'fee's' being paid