Two months out of warranty does SOGA protect me?

[Dan6470]

Hi, I purchased a Laptop as a Christmas present in Dec'08, yesterday it failed, so has been used for exactly fourteen months. The warranty was for only one year but since the Laptop cost in excess of £500.00 is this to be expected? Surely I have some protection by the sale of goods act but how do I apply it and how do I persuade the supplier to repair the Laptop?

 

I did contact the supplier yesterday and the following is they're response;

 

I am sorry to learn of the problem that you have experienced with your item.

 

Unfortunately, we are not a repair centre and would therefore not be able to repair the item for you. The warranty on this item was 12 months and is direct with the manufacturer, if it is a problem with the a power adaptor, I am sure HP will be able to arrange for one of these to be sent out to you and they will exchange it for the faulty unit.

Please could you contact the following number 0844 369 0369, where I am sure you will find they should be able to help and resolve the issue for you.

 

Kindest regards

 

Clearly they are not interested but considering the cost of the Laptop it is not unreasonable to expect it to last longer than 14 months. Since all the electrical components inside the laptop will have been designed to last for several years before failure then the component that has failed could be considered to have an inherent fault. Having looked at the FAQ for the SOGA, there is a mention of an inherent fault.....

 

1. What is an inherent fault?

Q1. What is an inherent fault?

A fault present at the time of purchase. Examples are:

• an error in design so that a product is manufactured incorrectly

• an error in manufacturing where a faulty component was inserted.

The "fault" may not become apparent immediately but it was there at the time of sale and so the product was not of satisfactory standard.

 

this would seem to match my scenario. What do you think, your thoughts would be most appreciated.

 

Dan

[blitz]

Yes you are covered by the SoGA for which the retailer is liable, send the following

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I purchased a laptop from yourselves in December 2008, the laptop has now developed a fault. After previous correspondence you indicate that the item is out of warranty and you are not responsible. It is my understanding that a warranty is in addition to my statutory rights, and not a replacement of them; therefore you the retailer are still liable for any faults with the product.

 

When goods are purchased in the UK they must be made of a satisfactory quality, which requires them to last a reasonable amount of time, for which a reasonable person could expect under reasonable use. 14 months is certainly not a reasonable lifetime for a laptop, for which many people can expect to last for at least 3 years, the product is therefore not of a satisfactory quality outlined in the Sales of Goods act 1979 (As amended) s.14.

 

Due to this and as part of my statutory rights I require a replacement or repair within a reasonable time, without significant inconvenience. This is part of the resolution the Sales of Goods act S48B outlays. Should neither of these be possible then I would require a refund of the product as outlined in S48C.

 

I expect a positive response within 7 days, otherwise I will have no alternative but to consider legal action and reporting you to trading standards for a failure to uphold my legal statutory rights.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

Dan6470

[Dan6470]

I've just fallen out of my chair! Absolutely fantastic response. I'll send it off and see what happens.

 

Thank you for your help. I'll post back when I receive their response.

 

Dan

[Surfer01]

Go one better as EU regulations cover all electronic goods for TWO years.

[blitz]

EU directives are adopted into the states law, the UK law actually goes further then the EU regulations and can be see as Part 5A of the Sales of Goods Act 1979 (As amended) Which ends up being Sections 48A-F.

 

The two years is a liability period, not a length of time goods should last. This is the part of the EU directive:

 

(17) Whereas it is appropriate to limit in time the period during which the seller is liable for any lack of conformity which exists at the time of delivery of the goods; whereas Member States may also provide for a limitation on the period during which consumers can exercise their rights, provided such a period does not expire within two years from the time of delivery; whereas where, under national legislation, the time when a limitation period starts is not the time of delivery of the goods, the total duration of the limitation period provided for by national law may not be shorter than two years from the time of delivery;

 

It covers more then just electronic products, in the UK is limited by the statute of limitations act (Six years), and applies in relation to s13-15 of the SoGA in which goods do not conform to the contract when there is a breech in S13,14,15.

[Dan6470]

This is all good info. however I do have a question with regard to;

Sale of Goods Act Fact Sheet

URN No: 05/1730

 

Subject:

Sale of Goods Act, Faulty Goods.

Relevant or Related Legislation:

Sale of Goods Act 1979. Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994. The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002.

Key Facts:

.

.

.

• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).

Considering the above do I have to employ the service of an engineer to verify that the Laptop is "inherently faulty". I don't mind doing this but who pays for the report (assuming it finds in my favour)? At this point the supplier hasn't asked for me to prove the product is inherently faulty!

 

Further, what type of report would be required and what calibre of engineer is to write the report, assuming I have to supply one?

 

Once again, thank you for all your help.

Dan

[blitz]

Sorry I completely missed that off my post, how forgetful of me, I usually do put it at the end.

 

Yes the retailer can ask you for an engineers report, should it be requested then I most likely a microsoft or A++ certified engineer should be sufficient. Essentially someone in the profession of fixing computers.

 

If the report is found in your favour they must reimburse you. I would usually wait until one is requested then getting one straight away.

[Dan6470]

Hi blitz, I sent the suggested letter, initially by email on Friday and followed it up with hardcopy, sent by recorded delivery which the supplier would have received today. And "hey presto" I have received the following response:

Good afternoon xxxxxxxxxxxxx,

 

Thank you for your response and subsequent letter that has been received.

 

Please be advised that as the exact fault of the item is not confirmed, we will arrange for the item to be collected from you and returned to technical support team in London, who will be able to trouble shoot the item and try to confirm exactley what is the fault with the unit.

 

Please be advised that you will be sent an email shortley confirming when the item will be collected, if you can ensure that the item is securely packaged and include the power adaptor and any discs for the unit and we will have a look at the item for you.

 

Kind regards

So this appears to be a good result, they are going to look at the Laptop but as I mentioned in one of my previous posts with reference to the SoGA isn't the onus on me to prove the fault? I guess I'm just being a little paranoid about loosing control once its passed over since they could attribute the fault to anything they like ie my son. I know, my son has not caused the fault but once its gone I have no control! I have to assume that they are a reputable company and it's not in their interests to play games. What do you think?

 

Thanks

Dan

[Conniff]

The onus is only on you if they want to go down that route. Don't count your chickens just yet though, they might say that the fault was due to negligence etc and then you would have to get the report to continue with your complaint.

[Dan6470]

They collected the Laptop on Thursday, so I just have to wait now and see what they say. Hopefully I should hear from them next week, say Tuesday or Wednesday. I'' report back their diagnoses.

 

Dan

[perplexity]

This is the advice provided by

 

Sale of Goods Act Fact Sheet - BIS

 

Q13. What does the "reversed burden of proof" mean for the consumer?

 

It means that for the first six months the consumer need not produce any evidence that a product was inherently faulty at the time of sale. If a consumer is seeking any other remedy the burden of proof remains with him/her.

 

In such a case, the retailer will either accept there was an inherent fault, and will offer a remedy, or he will dispute that it was inherently flawed. If the latter, when he inspects the product to analyse the cause, he may, for example, point out impact damage or stains that would be consistent with it having been mistreated in such a way as to bring about the fault.

 

This reversal of the usual burden of proof only applies when the consumer is seeking a repair or replacement. After the first six months the onus of proof is again on the consumer.

[Dan6470]

We received their report, which was negative, they claimed negligence on our part. Strangely enough, although they claimed negligence on our part, they returned the laptop in a broken state. The top cover of the laptop now has a substantial crack in it and we are unsure if there is any damage to the laptop screen (it cant be turned on at the moment, so no way to check this).

 

The argument they made was very weak, something to do with missing rubber feet and stickers being taken of the wrist rest. This didn't seem a plausible argument. So we arranged a counter report of our own, that identified the cause of the fault to be due to a loose screw that had short circuited components on the main board.

 

They have now come back and offered a refund of £328 against a purchase price of £600+, I don't feel this is acceptable, I certainly cant replace or repair the laptop for that. We checked out the cost of replacing the main board which in itself is in excess £450 for parts alone not counting labour. Then you have to consider the damage to the casing and any potential damage to the screen.

 

So I want to say no to the offer, I believe that they are in a weak position on this. What do you think? Am I wise to reject the offer? And if so what are the likely consequences?

 

Hope you can help

 

Dan

[perplexity]

What exactly is your position?

 

If you state a specific claim or expectation, there is that much more of a chance of achieving. Matters of principle never get so far for want of a valuation of the principle.

 

I'd be as concerned about the time spent, and the trouble if they returned the laptop in a broken state. There's a cost to that, but what you are likely to get at the end of the day is very much a matter of who deal with, a call to make on the strength of your own assessment.

 

[blitz]

Life expectancy of a laptop is at least 3 years, if they are even thinking of offering any type of partial refund it should be for a £600 laptop - £370 + cost of report/complaint.

 

I would reject the offer and demand a like for like replacement + costs (of report/mail etc)

[postggj]

Ime Playing Devils Advocate On This

 

Laptop Cost £500

You Had Use Of It For 14 Months

They Have Offered £328

 

If They ThrEW In The Cost Of What Your Report Was As Well,

 

I Would Think About It

 

I Saw Only Yesterday A 4gig Laptop In Tescos For £449

 

Ime Looking At It HoW A Judge Would And Not Taking Sides

[blitz]

Ahhh bad use of capitalisation

 

A partial refund would be worked out at:

 

Price Paid - (Price Paid x 0.39)

 

However I would agree they damaged it further and not accept the offer, don't be easy and push for more if not a like for like replacement (Which would probably cost them the same amount)

[Dan6470]

What exactly is your position?

 

If you state a specific claim or expectation

 

Thanks for your reply. Although I'm not quite sure what you mean here, what I want is the laptop to either be repaired (including the subsequent damage cause by their technical support), replaced or refunded. Not their half hearted gestures of appeasement

 

I'd be as concerned about the time spent, and the trouble if they returned the laptop in a broken state. There's a cost to that,

Do you mean that I can claim compensation for loss (of use) and inconvenience? Together with the cost of repair of the additional damage?

How do I do this when the first issue hasn't yet been resolved?

 

partial refund it should be for a £600 laptop - £370 + cost of report/complaint.

 

I would reject the offer and demand a like for like replacement + costs (of report/mail etc)

 

 

Thanks for your advice, but I don't fully understand your £600 laptop - £370, what is this £370? Also, can I really claim for the cost of the report?? I did this of my own back, it wasn't a requirement from them. It was required to counter their report, as I found their report to be whimsical at best.

 

edit: I've just seen your follow up post, and understand this now, thanks.

Dan

[postggj]

I Use Capitals As I Have Bad Eye Sight

[postggj]

Dan

 

My Advice Would Be To Take The Offer

 

This Will Drag On For Months And Months And All This Time You Will Be With Out A Lap Top

 

But Thats Me

[Dan6470]

Dan

 

My Advice Would Be To Take The Offer

 

This Will Drag On For Months And Months And All This Time You Will Be With Out A Lap Top

 

But Thats Me

 

 

Thanks for your advice, however this wont drag on. If I don't get a satisfactory result from this, it will just escalate to small claims court. I have to decide what I want, and if I dont get it, that's where it stops.

[postggj]

Ill Lay Some Figures On You

 

N1 County Court Application £150

Allocation Questionaire Its Been A While £75??

You Will Be Looking At A Trial Date 3 To 4 Months Time

 

If You Claim Is Classed As Vexatiouse And Unreasnable, You Will Then Have To Pay The Other Sides Cost

 

Ime Just Pointing Out The Pitt Falls

 

A New Laptop Does Not Cost A Lot Nowadays

 

Its Your Choice But Please Think About It

[blitz]

Sorry will explain the £370 thing the - was not a minus sign just a dash.

 

There are two tiers of resolutions in the SGA taken in order

 

Tier 1 - Repair or Replacement

 

Tier 2 - Partial Refund or Reduction of Price.

 

If Tier 1 is impossible or too costly they can opt for tier 2, which it looks like they wish to take. A partial refund takes into account use and time had.

 

-

 

I do think what they have offered you is too low, and offers are always there to be counter-offered , At this moment in time a counter-offer is the best course of action, not court action nor acceptance. A lot of companies will break when you start sending LBAs too.

Edited March 25, 2010 by blitz

[Dan6470]

Well, i just sent them the following reply

Thank you for your email, unfortunately I am unable to accept your offer. I am advised that your offer of £328.43 doesn't come close to covering the cost of replacement of the main board. There is also the additional cost of repairing the top cover and any damage to the screen caused during your inspection. As I've stated in previous emails, for a satisfactory conclusion to this situation I require you to either repair, replace or refund the full purchase price. Your offer doesn't cover any of these aspects, let alone the loss of use, inconvenience nor the cost of the report that I had to commission to find the true fault. Something that should have done in the first instance, rather than look for a way of deflecting responsibility.

 

 

Lets see where this goes.

 

Thanks for all your help

 

Dan

[perplexity]

Sure enough, if you're spending time and money on testing, etcetera, you can claim for that.

 

Article 3. of the EU Directive 1999/4/EC outlines your rights:

 

5. The consumer may require an appropriate reduction of the price or have the contract rescinded:

- if the consumer is entitled to neither repair nor replacement, or

- if the seller has not completed the remedy within a reasonable time, or

- if the seller has not completed the remedy without significant inconvenience to the consumer.

 

"rescinded" implies a full refund in return for letting the supplier off the hook; contract cancelled, money back, end of story.

 

[postggj]

The Counter Report You Did

 

Was The Person Who Did That Report Have Recognised Qualifications To Make That Report