Facing redundancy - Advice please

[JeffW]

Yesterday, my employer told me that a provisional decision had been made to make me redundant. This was based on scores I was given against various criteria such as 'work ethic' and 'timekeeping'.

 

A meeting has been arranged in a week's time, at which I will be able to argue why my employer's assessment of me was wrong.

 

A couple of questions:

 

A. I think that the assessment had nothing to do with the facts, and everything to do with office politics. If I say 'There's no point in me arguing my case, as you've clearly already made your decision', will my chances of successfully suing the company for unfair dismissal be reduced?

 

B. If I am offered an alternative position in the company, but turn it down, will I still be eligible for a redundancy payment?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Jeff

[JeffW]

Hi

 

Does anyone know of a good layperson's guide to suing for unfair or constructive dismissal - the costs, the risks, the potential benefits, etc?

 

Thanks

 

Jeff

[JeffW]

Hi

 

Does anyone know of a good layperson's guide to suing for unfair or constructive dismissal - the costs, the risks, the potential benefits, etc?

 

Thanks

 

Jeff

[elpulpo]

Employment Tribunal Claims: Tactics and Precedents

This site is a goldmine. Their book is also very highly regarded.

[elpulpo]

And here, of course.

Tell us your problem and we'll do what we can to help.

[JeffW]

Thanks Elpulpo

 

Is it generally possible to obtain representation for an unfair dismissal case on a 'no win, no fee' basis?

 

Jeff

 

And here, of course.

Tell us your problem and we'll do what we can to help.

[elpulpo]

Thanks Elpulpo

 

Is it generally possible to obtain representation for an unfair dismissal case on a 'no win, no fee' basis?

 

Jeff

Ah. Now.

Crucial distinction between cases in the Employment Tribunal and civil law cases such as 'personal injury' claims, is that in the large majority of cases legal costs are not awarded at ET.

So, if you instructed a solicitor to represent you at ET, you would almost always have to pay them.

Solicitors will offer to represent you on a 'no win, no fee' basis, but what they mean by that is, IMO, misleading. They mean that if you win at ET, they'll want a proportion of any award made to you. And they'll only offer that if they feel that the case is absolutely watertight.

[JeffW]

Thanks Elpulpo.

 

Would I typically be looking at thousands of pounds if it goes the distance?

 

Jeff

 

Ah. Now.

Crucial distinction between cases in the Employment Tribunal and civil law cases such as 'personal injury' claims, is that in the large majority of cases legal costs are not awarded at ET.

So, if you instructed a solicitor to represent you at ET, you would almost always have to pay them.

Solicitors will offer to represent you on a 'no win, no fee' basis, but what they mean by that is, IMO, misleading. They mean that if you win at ET, they'll want a proportion of any award made to you. And they'll only offer that if they feel that the case is absolutely watertight.

[elpulpo]

Probably at least a couple of grand. More if it's a complex case.

[JeffW]

Thanks.

 

Are companies typically willing to settle out of court, especially if the company is in the public eye and the claim would result in embarrassment?

 

For example, I'm not sure my employer would want an email sent to me from the Commercial Director containing just the words 'Gay boy' to be read out in court! Their main competitor's PR department would have a field day!

 

Jeff

 

Probably at least a couple of grand. More if it's a complex case.

[elpulpo]

Frequently, companies settle with a compromise agreement rather that go to ET. Not always though.

'Gay boy'. Interesting. What was the context of that?

[JeffW]

It was meant as a harmless joke, and it was not meant to imply that I was homosexual. However, it would be relevant to my case, as it is an example of an 'anything goes' culture within the company where unprofessionalism is tolerated.

 

The director in question did not know my sexuality or whether I would be offended by a comment like that. But as an experienced and senior member of staff, he will have known that he could get away with it, which says something about the company.

 

Jeff

 

Frequently, companies settle with a compromise agreement rather that go to ET. Not always though.

'Gay boy'. Interesting. What was the context of that?

[elpulpo]

They need to be very careful. Silly jokes like that can be used against them.

[JeffW]

Indeed! Particularly as the public perception of my company is crucial to its success!

 

Here's another example. This is an email (from someone else) whose subject was 'No gay day!', which was sent to 'All staff':

 

Whoever started the rumour that I am supposed to be GAY, I am more than certain it is them who are GAY!!!!!!!!!!1

 

I am 100 % NOT

 

 

SO LETS KNOCK THAT ON THE HEAD RIGHT NOW. I WOULD NOT WANT TO BE THE NEXT PERSON WHO SAY’S THAT I AM.

 

THIS FARCE STOPS HERE AND NOW.

 

What started maybe as a joke is NO LONGER FUNNY.

 

 

They need to be very careful. Silly jokes like that can be used against them.

[honeybee13]

Hi JeffW, this sounds tough for you. If no-one has said it already, don't forget to keep all the written evidence you can, including the emailed you mentioned. You never know when it/they might come in useful.

[JeffW]

Thanks Honeybee

 

I have been forwarding emails that might support my case to my personal email address - everything from an email from the MD thanking me for a great 2009 to one where he harshly criticised me in a group email.

 

I don't know if I will take legal action, however, as the legal expenses would quickly mount up, and the outcome is far from clear.

 

Jeff

 

Hi JeffW, this sounds tough for you. If no-one has said it already, don't forget to keep all the written evidence you can, including the emailed you mentioned. You never know when it/they might come in useful.

[elpulpo]

Just check the T&C's / internet policy. Make sure that you can transfer the email.

[JeffW]

According to the Direct.gov website:

 

'If your employer is making 20 or more employees redundant in one establishment within a 90 day period, this is a collective redundancy.'

 

Is an 'establishment' a particular office or depot location in this context?

 

Jeff

[JeffW]

Thanks Elpulpo -

 

Fortunately, my company doesn't have an official Internet policy!

 

BTW, how viable is it to take a company to an Employment Tribunal without a solicitor? If I'm unable to afford a solicitor, it can't hurt to try going solo!

 

Jeff

 

Just check the T&C's / internet policy. Make sure that you can transfer the email.

[honeybee13]

Jeff, do you have any legal cover on your household or possibly motor policy? I believe others from the forum have used that to get themselves a solicitor. Or a union would help, if you're in one.

 

I understand that a good employment lawyer would give you a free half-hour meeting to discuss your case and then they should give you an estimate of what the costs might be.

 

It could be worth a try, other wise you could try the ACAS website and/or confidential helpline. And the CAB may be able to help.

 

Come back to us with any questions you may have.

[honeybee13]

Hi Jeff. My last message crossed with yours. I think Elpulpo may be able to answer your question about representing yourself.

[JeffW]

Thanks Honeybee.

 

BTW, if an employer takes length of service into account when deciding who to make redundant, is that normally classed as age discrimination?

 

Two of three people with my skillset will be made redundant, and one of the guys I'm up against has been with the company 10 years. Because of the relative weight put on each quarter of service, I don't have a snowflake's chance in hell of getting a higher score then him, even if I were given top marks for all the other criteria!

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff. My last message crossed with yours. I think Elpulpo may be able to answer your question about representing yourself.

[elpulpo]

It's viable. Takes a lot of preparation though.

[labrat]

would be intrested in this as well if people can advise

 

roughly 50-60 people going at our place

[gezwee]

Theres a link here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/employment-problems/209423-protective-award.html to my thread on the same subject.

 

Havent got to a hearing at employment tribunal yet though, 1 year on and still waiting. Had a date fixed for last week but the I.P got a 6 month extension from the Chancery and the stay is back on !

 

Gez