Bailliff warrant for a debt.. clamped car took list - i paid . changed his warrant to one for CTAX whilst here - all refund back now with the council **WON**

[RaeUK]

Sewingkit, the bailiffs will always take their cut first. Others can advise about what can and can't be charged and any other advice should be followed as well as mine. I am only interested in the vulnerable aspect. I suspect it may be necessary to use the small claims court to recover excess fees, but you have 6 years...

 

thegreenpimpernel, the objective of this particular excercise is to get the debts back to the council and away from the bailiffs. This is by invoking the vulnerable category. If unsuccessful it opens the door to many higher complaints and other opportunities for the case to go back...

 

Best wishes

Rae.

Edited March 16, 2010 by RaeUK
because I wanted to, ok?

[RaeUK]

I'll post templates tomorrow round about early afternoon if that's ok. I know it's early [by my standards] but I'm a little worn out after today. It's just that I like to read through the thread again to refresh my memory.

Best wishes.

Rae.

[sewingkit]

the objective of this particular excercise is to get the debts back to the council and away from the bailiffs. This is by invoking the vulnerable category. If unsuccessful it opens the door to many higher complaints and other opportunities for the case to go back...

 

....exactly.

 

Thanks Rae, all templates gratefully received.

Edited March 16, 2010 by sewingkit

[RaeUK]

Hi sewingkit,

 

here is a template relating to your vulnerable status for the bailiff company. Please read it through to ensure it is accurate. Please also note that you are free to alter, add, amend or ignore it.

I have addressed both the PCN and CT in the same letter for convenience. [Other Caggers please feel free to check that I have got the basics right].

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

PCN Reference Number:

Council Tax Reference Number:

I am writing with regard to the above accounts relating to a Court Warrant your company has been requested to enforce and Council Tax Liability Orders.

 

It would appear, from advice that I have received, my circumstances are classed as 'vulnerable' according to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents. The reason for this is due to my being unemployed. I am in receipt of Job Seekers Allowance, Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit. As you will be aware, being unemployed drastically reduces all available monies and results in acute financial hardship.

 

I enclose copies of recent correspondence from the relevant benefits departments in support of my assertion.

 

As I am unable to meet any fixed payment plan at a level your company may feel appropriate, I would like to formally request that:

 

a) the PCN account be referred back to XXX Court in order that a means test can be instigated and an affordable, sustainable, payment plan can then be put in place.

b) the Council Tax accounts be referred back to XXX Council in order that an attachment to benefits can be put in place. This will allow repayment at a suitable level for my circumstances.

 

I also respectfully request that, in the meantime, you do not visit my property as I have found that this causes me undue stress, anxiety and panic attacks.

 

I would be grateful if you would please confirm safe receipt of this letter.

 

A copy of this letter has also been sent to XXX Court and XXX Council for their information.

 

Yours faithfully.

 

 

 

Please note: This correspondence is being sent by both electronic and conventional mail.

 

................................................................

 

You need to email to the bailiff, hardcopy by signed for.

Email [if desired] to the relevant court. Copy by signed for.

Email the relevant council [if desired]. Copy by signed for.

Ensure you enclose copies of appropriate benefits correspondence as evidence.

Have you seen your GP regarding stress, anxiety and panic attacks? If so evidence from him / her would also be usefull.

 

I'll be back tonight with a formal complaint for your consideration.

 

Best wishes.

Rae.

Edited March 16, 2010 by RaeUK
I like typing...

[sewingkit]

HI everyone, esp Kelcou,

 

Apologies for not being on since yesterday. My Virgin internet went down, engineer just called and fixed in 2 mins over phone, why the Indian call centre guy could not do the same last night i will never know!!!!!

 

Anyway, back to all this. I will get Word fired up and do the two letters right now and pop to post office and email, etc.

 

Will come back and confirm when sent and done. then the waiting game will start!

 

Thank you kelcou for the great letters, you are truly wonderful with words, Wish I was like that!

 

regards

Sew

[sewingkit]

Hi Rae,

 

sorry no, I have not been to the doctor. I had thought about it as, and I hate to admit it, when I think about all of this or especially the bailiff visit my heart starts pounding and I don't feel right, probably anger and rage. Best not go there then me thinks.

 

If I continue to feel a bit squiffy then i will go to him. I have spoken to him twice about stress in the last year or so is he will be familiar with some things

 

Thanks

Sew

Edited March 17, 2010 by sewingkit

[sewingkit]

OK, both letters sent to Bailiff, and copies to respective councils by recorded de;livery. Emails also prior.

 

All done so wait and see what transpires....

 

......Next (he shouts)

 

On to formal complaint letter.

 

Thanks Rae, so far for your help so far

 

Sew

[RaeUK]

I'll be back tonight with a formal complaint for your consideration.

 

Clearly I fibbed! Will do it tomorrow - I blame the dentist...

 

Best wishes

Rae.

[sewingkit]

Hey Crikey, don't worry, there is no rush. I am so grateful for your help.

 

But thank you for coming on and "managing my expectations" as they say.

[RaeUK]

You're welcome.

Rae.

Expectations Management Consultant.

 

[Off topic, just noticed you're in Exeter, sincerely hope you're a Grecian and celebrating tonights great 1-0 victory over Bristol Rovers... ]

[sewingkit]

Aha, those pesky Bristolians. To be honest and please forgive me, I am not a Grecian but an avid Chelsea fan/man but I do pay a lot of interest in the governance of the club in the local papers and whenever it appears on the local news. I like it that is owned by the supporters after all the trouble. Perhaps the Portsmouth fiasco and Chester, etc, would have been averted if fans and supporters were involved more. Clubs would not make money without supporters.

 

But anyway, a big topic!

Edited March 18, 2010 by sewingkit

[sewingkit]

Hi Everyone,

 

Just had two things back:

 

Email from bailiff in response to my email request to return file to Council. They say they "Please note that we are unable to return any file, unless we have been instructed by our clients direct" They should get the paper copy today by recorded with 4 pages of proof of benefits.

 

Is this true in that they are unable to do it unless instructed ONLY or do they have the power themselves to return it. As I understand it they have to themselves as they are under an obligation due to my circumstances. I am happy to call the council and let them know, etc.

 

Second thing:

 

I had the Computer Screenshot I requested. Only has the CTax accounts and not the PCN one funnily enough. But...

 

..on the account details for one it has no record of the visit of the uncertificated bailiff that visited last year???? I still have my paper copy of the WPO with date and signature. (the bailiff who visited me on this main post had said he had left the company BUT I checked the register and he stills works for them, lol)

 

So, how funny it is not on the history. perhaps someone forgot to put it on there:D

Edited March 18, 2010 by sewingkit

[RaeUK]

... "Please note that we are unable to return any file, unless we have been instructed by our clients direct" ... Is this true in that they are unable to do it unless instructed ONLY or do they have the power themselves to return it.

 

Funnily enough, it isn't true.

Most council / bailiff contracts - I understand - include a clause to this effect regarding vulnerable people and return of cases.

It is, hower another nice little paragraph to be added to the CEO Formal Complaint...

 

From the National Standards re vulnerable people:

 

The appropriate use of discretion is essential in every case and no amount of guidance could cover every situation, therefore the agent has a duty to contact the creditor and report the circumstances in situations where there is potential cause for concern. If necessary, the enforcement agent will advise the creditor iffurther action is appropriate. The exercise of appropriate discretion is needed, not only to protect the debtor, but also the enforcement agent who should avoid taking action which could lead to accusations of inappropriate behaviour.

 

Back soon...

 

Rae.

Edited March 18, 2010 by RaeUK
finger orientated keyboard malfunction.

[sewingkit]

Thanks Rae,

 

Shall I go back to the Bailiff at least to give them a deadline to return it or shall I not bother and just let it simmer until I send the formal complaint?

 

Thanks

Sew

[RaeUK]

Tbh, I'd hang fire a wee while. I'll write your complaint this evening - the problem is I share my computer with my lodger, he's another writer and is finishing off a novel and a film script, so until I get my other pc net friendly I'm a little stuck during the day!

In the complaint I'll be suggesting that the relationship between bailiff and debtor has become untenable and formally request it is taken back by the council etc. The bailiff is simply providing you with more ammunition...

Best wishes.

Rae.

[sewingkit]

Thanks Rae,

 

I will await your prosaic creation later, please take you're time. Thank you

 

Sew

Edited March 18, 2010 by sewingkit

[RaeUK]

Apols, finally got around to it. Don't worry if it looks unspectacular. The formatting never fully pastes into the post. The pretty copy is attached, just click on the MS Word document...

 

 

[Your Name & Address]

 

[Council & Address]

 

FORMAL COMPLAINT

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

Ref: [Council Tax Account Reference]

 

I am writing to make a formal complaint regarding your collecting contractor [insert Bailiff Company].

 

On [Day & Date] at [Time if recalled] my property was visited by two Enforcement Agents from this company. Whilst retrieving documentation for them, they entered my home. They then proceeded to forcefully argue that this was their right. This caused me considerable distress as I felt incredibly intimidated by their demeanour. I had explained that I was unemployed and in receipt of Jobseekers Allowance, Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit. Their continued belligerence resulted in my suffering a severe panic attack.

 

You will be aware that the National Standards for Enforcement Agents specifically include the unemployed. This is because the financial hardship associated with unemployment attracts a high level of stress and worry. Bailiff action magnifies this disproportionately. For your convenience I include the relevant part of that document:

 

Vulnerable situations

 

· Enforcement agents/agencies and creditors must recognise that they each have a role in ensuring that the vulnerable and socially excluded are protected and that the recovery process includes procedures agreed between the agent/agency and creditor about how such situations should be dealt with. The appropriate use of discretion is essential in every case and no amount of guidance could cover every situation, therefore the agent has a duty to contact the creditor and report the circumstances in situations where there is potential cause for concern. If necessary, the enforcement agent will advise the creditor if further action is appropriate. The exercise of appropriate discretion is needed, not only to protect the debtor, but also the enforcement agent who should avoid taking action which could lead to accusations of inappropriate behaviour.

· Those who might be potentially vulnerable include:

 

• 
  
  • the elderly;
    
  • people with a disability;
    
  • the seriously ill;
    
  • the recently bereaved;
    
  • single parent families;
    
  • pregnant women;
    
  • unemployed people; and,
    
  • those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.
    

   

Furthermore, your contractors then proceeded to pressurise me into borrowing significant sums from friends in order to meet their charges.

 

Whilst levying goods, they repeatedly ignored the fact that the majority of items were broken and unserviceable with only negligible pecuniary value. And that other items levied belonged to my Landlord.

 

Having established that the household contained a vulnerable person, who clearly was in no fit state to conduct a rational negotiation , and had no real assets of worth, I feel strongly that your contractors were derelict in their duty of care.

 

I have since made contact with the companies offices who, despite the clarity of the National Standards and their universal adoption by Councils, Courts and Enforcement Agencies, your collecting contractor appears ignorant of the process these Standards outline for dealing with a case involving vulnerable people and their obligations as outlined above.

Due to their actions and professional ineptitude, any potential for interacting with [bailiff Company] has now clearly become untenable. Therefore I will also copy this complaint to your Head of Revenues and formally request that the debt is taken back by the Council in order that an affordable and sustainable method of payment can be agreed. I trust that, under the circumstances, you will endorse this.

 

I also trust you will take serious note of this complaint and take immediate steps to ensure that all of your bailiff contractors are fully trained up to professional standards.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

........................................

 

Send to CEO local council by signed for (or drop it in and get a signature).

Copy to Head of Revenues for local council, send signed for or as above. Include a brief covering letter requesting the case is returned to the council. Feel free to include an income / expenditure statement.

 

Email the bailiff company requesting a copy of their complaints procedure. Let them know you wish to make a serious complaint about which you have already notified the council.

 

Best wishes.

Rae

Edited March 18, 2010 by RaeUK

[RaeUK]

Doh! Forgot to attach the document. There are one or two little things I'm not entirely happy with - mainly repetition of a couple of words - but I am a bit pedantic about these things.

Feel free to use it, ignore it, amend it or whatever!

 

Best wishes.

Rae

 

(spotted a typo as well. Grrrrr. )

vulnerable - CEO council complaint 7.doc

Edited March 18, 2010 by RaeUK
cos I did.

[sewingkit]

Rae,

 

Thank you so much, that is wonderful. I'll have a read right now.

 

Sew

[sewingkit]

Kelcou, et al,

 

All done and I used attachment and added a couple of things in support but not overdoing it too much. Your letter was perfect, god I wish I could write like that. Too late to get to the Post office now but will be sending first thing tomorrow by recorded

 

I emailed the bailiffs asking for their complaint procedure, i wonder how long they will take to reply

 

I am not sure how to word the complaint to the bailiff but will use parts of your letter and work around that. I will give them their 14 days then straight to court (Form 4) of which I will seek advice from here in due course.

 

I saw the copy of the judgement seanamarts posted about illegal entry and keep that in mind too although I appreciate it is my word against his but either could be right or wrong. I will prepare for the court thing nearer the time.

 

Any pointers on the Bailiff complaint will obviously still be gladly recieved! . To be honest, I see that having no effect but you never know. Perhaps the Director of Operations will call again, I will look forward to that with glee. Refund and compensation in return for no further action or lose 2 bailiffs. Wishful thinking on my part possibly

 

This WILL be going all the way

 

Thank you so much so far, I tried tipping your scales a hundred times but alas I could not, darnit!:grin:

 

Sewing

[sewingkit]

.....and I forgot to mention I am checking out the local councillor and getting her involved in some way and writing to local MP, Ben Bradshaw. I want to draw his attention to a lot of the substantive things I have read here and my own situation and the unregulated, dodgy behaviour and lack of a proper framework or protection for people that are targeted in this way. Much the same as mentioned in that Government bill I read about on here. There really does need to be stricter regulation and avenues of appeal, etc.

 

I will, when I get my printer fixed, will be creating a A4 leaflet to pin up in the chippy down the road offering information. Well, pointing them here more or less and a few "facts" re: not obliged to let them in, they cant take goods unless they have WPO/let them in before, etc. Tidbits like that but being careful not to mislead, etc. Need to spread the word, knowledge is power as they say.

 

I live in an "interesting social area" that may benefit from this and the chippy is always busy with locals who will see it. Perhaps this will help others and empower them and to make them feel a bit better if the same situation arises. I personally, in keeping with my empathic nature, would hate to think someone near by is going through the same thing as me when there is good help in a Broadband connection or Friend nearby.

 

We/could go on I am sure......

[RaeUK]

Glad you're well and truly getting to grips with this and wanting to take matters further. The more people who find the personal courage to do so the better.

With regard to the bailiff complaint I would be inclined to add more detail than to the council CEO. This is only my personal opinion and how I would do things. I feel, with the council, less is more as you just want to give an overview of the situation and they have the option of following it up with your for detail.

With the bailiffs, however, (irrespective if they take any action) you are complaining about particular people and particular behaviour so more detail needed not less.

If that makes sense.

Good luck and best wishes.

Rae.

[sewingkit]

Hi Everyone,

 

So, I have given the letter in to the council fao the Chief executive and head of revenues to return to Council.

 

Tomorrow I will start on the complaint to the bailiff. They have let me know there complaint procedure.

 

If anyone can assist me or show me a previous template/letter with any wording for how I make up the complaint. I have it listed what they have done wrong, each point but it's the other words around that like how to start and how to end i.e. time frames to reply, etc.

 

Can someone answer/confirm something please:

 

If the bailiff has a WPO signed by me CAN he break into my house when I am not there to repossess? I.e. use a crow bar on a door or break windows to get in (all mine will always be locked and there is no way he can without doing either). I am under the impression he has to get a court order to "break in" or something like that

 

I mean if I he did how would it be leaving a house with open door or broken window for someone else to do the same thing when I am away.

 

Just want to feel secure whilst my complaint goes through the bailiff and the council take back the Debt, etc

 

Mmm, if they take back the debt then isn't the LO/WPO null and void in that no levy or claim would be relevant any more except any bailiff fees?

 

Many thanks

Sew

[RaeUK]

Hi sewingkit,

Others better placed than I will hopefully answer your query. As far as I am aware you are correct that the bailiff would need to get a court order [or somesuch] in order to force entry. It is, I understand, unusual for this to occur.

With regard to your complaint against the bailiffs, happy to do what I can. However, I do need to try and not be on the bailiff forum throughout wednesday as I have my ESA Appeal Tribunal on Thursday.

Best wishes.

Rae.

Edited March 23, 2010 by RaeUK
oh no! Only 40 minutes of my birthday left! :(

[sewingkit]

Thanks Rae,

 

I kinda have the list wrongdoing and will find that the easy bit. just not sure how to start if off and how to finish it. I am so much better at these things face to face and on the phone, shame but it has to be done.

 

All help is gladly received, thank you. I will start on the list tomorrow. through the course of these 70 or so comments the issues/bailiff errors are spread out and I was going to sort through and maybe get someone to verify i have got them right before I put pen to paper. and start from there.

 

Must also think of what to write to local paper, councillor and MP. Those I would find much easier as they are not so formal

 

Many thanks

Sew