Meteor / Orpington / I'm actually in the wrong - what to do?

[Lebbo]

Hi guys,

 

A little background...

 

For 4 months, I've been buying a weekly parking ticket. For almost the same period of time, I've been on a waiting list for a parking permit (so that I can pay monthly/quarterly etc and park nearer to the station pre-9.30am).

 

I received a PCN a few weeks ago for "failing to display a valid ticket" - because I'd forgotten to display my weekly ticket, although it could've easily slipped off as you cannot get sticky-backed weekly tickets...

- I appealed (via email), included a scan of the PCN and a scan of my weekly ticket & they agreed to cancel the PCN (freaking surprise!!).

 

Anyway, yesterday, the same thing happened, so I shot them an email and it turns out that the ticket actually expires at 03.59am on the last day of its validity (I thought it was valid all day and was in the habit of purchasing new tickets every monday evening on my way home from work) - the PCN was issued around 9am - so the fact that my ticket wasn't displayed doesn't matter anyway as it wasn't valid!

 

What's really annoying is that also on Monday, I finally received an email saying that I was at the top of the waiting list and could buy a permit (which I did immediately, valid as of next monday 22nd Feb).

 

So, am I in the wrong, do I pay? - or do I still escape the charge on other grounds, such as the PCN not actually stating the exact phrase "Date of Issue"?

 

Edited February 16, 2010 by Lebbo

[buzby]

Up to you. As you are now valid - why not write and explain, they may (for goodwill) agree cancellation. But this is still a PPC ticket, so whether you pay relies on your understanding of the contract.

 

It seems a strange expiry time, as one would expect it to expire at midnight. Was this drawn to your attention? If not, I don't think you should pay.

[Lebbo]

I'm a little confused...

 

As for my understanding of the contract, I understand that a valid ticket always has to be displayed. I have just realised that every Monday for the past 4 months, I've been parking without a valid ticket - due to this odd expiry time. It's clearly confused me having 15th Feb printed on the front of the ticket - thinking that I could use the ticket up to and including this day, when in fact it expires in the early hours.

 

Here's the ticket:

 

[Lebbo]

Something else that comes to mind, doesn't the PCN need to clearly state the date of the contravention in addition to the date of issue?

[lamma]

this is a PPC ticket isn't it ? the regulations have nothing to do with it. I think you haven't got your head around the PPC [problem].

[hanley duck]

Something else that comes to mind, doesn't the PCN need to clearly state the date of the contravention in addition to the date of issue?

 

If it was a PCN, yes. This however is just an invoice from [problematic]. I would not be surprised if the 03.59 expiry time is a deliberate part of the [problem]. Just ignore it.

[buzby]

Be wary, however. THis could still by a Railway Byelaws issue - they are otal efunc due the PPC change. It is worth checking the paperwork.

 

That said - why was the expiry time as shown - did you buy it at 0359 the previous week?

[Lebbo]

I always buy the ticket at around the same time - circa 8pm Monday nights... - I think all of their tickets expire at 03.59...

 

I'm a touch confused about all of this, folks. Should I just completely ignore this PCN despite the fact that I didn't actually have a valid ticket (due to the 03.59 expiry)?

 

- I've fought a few things over the years - a couple of PCN's, a couple of TV licensing harassments, just this week I refused to pay £70 "final demand" BS from an ISP that never actually supplied me with internet etc...

 

So, I'm certainly willing - I've read around these forums a fair bit, but I'm still not 100% clued up (hence this post).....

[buzby]

You bought a Weekly ticket - that is 24hrs x 7 days. Irrespective of the time on the ticket, if there is to be ANY time relevant, it would be 2000 on the 7th day... so if you bought at 2000hrs on 8th, then it should expire at 1959hrs on 15th. Looking at the time on the ticket, It is lunacy, as there are no trainsa then and the ticket office would be closed (how would you renew it?).

 

I'd wouldn't pay if it was me - as the the issung of the PCN is perverse. I'd ignore in the first instance, and challenge if it came to court.

[Lebbo]

On what grounds could I challenge it if it did come to court - not to mention how would I find representation? I earn practically nothing right now

 

Is there any point in me making further contact with Meteor - or do I just ignore them? e.g. to bring up the 24hrs x 7 days point, or to ask for photographic evidence etc?

 

Yes, despite fighting (& winning) a few cases over the years, I'm still most certainly a n00b.

 

btw, thanks for your responses so far guys - very much appreciated!

[buzby]

IF it came to court (a big IF) it would be a Small Claims action, so you would defend it yourself. The usual rule is to ignore, but you COULD tell them you booked and paid for 7 days and that what you required, the ticket was unfair - and as you have now a full extended permit, should they wish to pursue the matter, you'll see them in court.

 

In the meantime, you will assume you have provided a satisfactory response and consider the matter closed.

[Lebbo]

Appears to be good advice, with the exception of one point:

 

"In the meantime, you will assume you have provided a satisfactory response and consider the matter closed."

 

If it is clearly printed on the ticket that it expires at 03.59 then I'm kinda screwed regardless of what I was expecting when I bought the ticket... Or could I argue that I presumed it would give me the full 7 days and that at a glance, it appeared to me that the ticket would expire at 03.59 in the middle of the night / morning at the end of the 7th day..... I mean, that is literally what I'd presumed......

[hanley duck]

Lebbo, you are giving these scamsters too much credibility. They don't do court. Do a search for Meteor on this forum, there are a few threads about them. Expect threatening letters from dubious "Debt Collectors" and dodgy "Solicitors", ignore them all and they will go away. I believe Meteor go down the usual Roxburghe/G. White route.

[buzby]

Did you buy a weekly ticket or a 6-day one? If the latter, roll over and pay up. If not, don't!

[Lebbo]

Screw it, I'm not going to pay.

 

I'll keep the thread update as events unfold (or don't!) - possibly asking for further advice here and there.

 

Should I message them at all any more or not even bother?

 

Thanks again for the great advice.

[buzby]

Just drop it. You've wasted enough time with this problem!

[Lebbo]

Will do, cheif. Thank you again for your advice - and the advice of others.

 

I'll now proceed to ignore the hell out of this.

 

- I'll post any developments, should there be any.

[Al27]

It's a junk ticket.

 

Note breach of contract notice, not a penalty for breach of byelaws.

[Lebbo]

Dear Mr X, * Parking Charge Notice No : XXXXX/XXXXXX * Thank you for your recent representations received Xth February 2010*with regard to the above parking charge notice. * Following our correspondence sent on Xth February 2010,*it appears you have failed to provide us with the further evidence needed for your appeal to be investigated. * I have now extended your appeal timeframe for a further 7 days for this information to be received.*As per my email below, please ensure to forward a copy of your*ticket which is valid for parking on Xth February, to us within 7 days of the date of this correspondence. * If this information is not received, this will result in your appeal being unsuccessful and full payment being requested. * Once the requested information is received, your appeal will be investigated and a response sent within 3 working days. * Yours sincerely X X * Meteor Appeals Department Meteor Parking PO Box 475 Sevenoaks Kent TN13 9JS *

[Al27]

"Representations"

 

"Appeal"

 

It's a bleedin invoice. How many other companies do you appeal and make representations to?

"Hello BT? I'd like to appeal and make representations regarding my son's 60 minute call to Australia the other week".

[Lebbo]

Lol. I'm still standing my ground.

[Lebbo]

Received this email: Love how they think it's fine to email final demands with no proof of my having received it. Dear Mr X, Parking Charge Notice No : XXXX/XXXXXXXXXX Thank you for your recent representations received Xth February 2010 with regard to the above parking charge notice. Following our correspondence sent on Xth February 2010 and X February 2010, it appears you have failed to provide us with the further evidence needed for your appeal to be investigated. I regret to inform you, as the information requested has not been provided within the timescale set, your appeal has not been successful and full payment for the amount of £45 is now requested. Therefore, within 30 days of the date of this letter being served, you must make payment for this notice. The payment required within 30 days is 90 however, if you pay within 15 days Meteor will accept £45. If you fail to make payment, Meteor Parking Limited will commence collection procedures for the recovery of the sum claimed in this notice along with all costs associated with its recovery. How To Make Payment By Post- Do not send cash through the post. All payments to be sent to the address stated above by cheque or postal order- made payable to 'Meteor Parking Limited'. Please attach your cheque/postal order to the payment slip and write the serial number of this notice on the reverse. Post-dated Cheques will not be accepted. Dishonoured cheques may result in further costs being incurred. Online- Please visit http://www.meteor-pcn.com then follow the on screen instructions. Yours sincerely Hannah Downing Meteor Appeals Department Meteor Parking PO Box 475 Sevenoaks Kent TN13 9JS Fax: 01959 525 983

[hanley duck]

What a surprise, your appeal has not been successful! Who's this Hannah then, the tea lady or the office cleaner? Appeals department my ****.

 

Carry on ignoring.

[Lebbo]

Ahh, these replies do amuse me! Will do! - just a side note regarding the lack of faith in their appeals dept, they let me off my last fine because I emailed them a scan of my valid ticket which I'd simply forgotten to display / slid from my dash....

[DBC]

Ahh, these replies do amuse me! Will do! - just a side note regarding the lack of faith in their appeals dept, they let me off my last fine because I emailed them a scan of my valid ticket which I'd simply forgotten to display / slid from my dash....

 

Except it wasn't a "fine", it was an unenforceable invoice!