Bryan carter and orange

[Fourfingers]

Hi

 

Can anyone help orange mobile have been chaseing me for a mobile phone bill i know nothing about they passed it to arrow global who hounded me for nearly a year the so called debt is from way back in 2004 i know nothing about it i applied for a subject access request and arrow never replied then i started getting letters from bryan carter solicitors they also hounded me then they sent a letter saying they were taking me to court and they did so i defended myself stating that i know nothing about the debt and that i had asked for a subject access request and the court sent a letter back saying they had 32 days to reply to my request and of they dont the claim will be stayed that was 30 days ago today i got a letter from bryan carter saying here is a statement from orange on how much you owe and it was more that what they asked for through the court and that i must reply within 10 days or they will proceed with the court action what to do

[lookinforinfo]

Does any paperwork in their SAR show that you owe any money?

Please itemise the paperwork and call sheets and screen shots they sent. It may be that they have missed some thing and perhaps a critical to your case something [which is why they didn't send it]. did they send the contract you signed? Did they also include their Terms and Conditions? if ro

 

I take it you did have an account with them or you wouldn't be stressing. So can you see anything that might lead them to think you owe them and is there some thing you can see or know to reject their claim.

[comebackjimmy]

Hi

 

I just want to understand your situation:

 

1. Orange claim you had a mobile contract with them, though you know nothing about it. Have you at any time ever had a mobile phone from Orange?

 

2. You state the debt is from 2004. Would you know the exact date?

 

3. You sent a Subject Access Request to Arrow. When was this sent? Did you send it recorded or similar? Have you any proof of posting?

 

4. Bryan Carter got involved and started court proceedings? Did they issue a County Court Summons? If so I presume you sent a defence as you say you defended.

 

5. Did the case get to court? If so what was the date?

 

6. If the case did not get as far as a court presumably your defence or some other document prompted the judge to issue an order? Please clarify what happened. If it was a written order did it specifically say Bryan Carter had to comply with the SAR or was it Arrow that had to comply?

 

7. You say Bryan Carter has sent you a letter with a statement from Orange. Could you make a copy of it, remove personal details from the copy and post it up here? Does it have any of your personal details on it?

 

8. The statement is for a greater amount than Bryan Carter has asked for in their court claim. Are they now asking for more than the court claim?

 

9. You seem to be saying Bryan Carter are giving you ten days to pay or they will proceed with court action. However, you also say the court has instructed BC to comply with an order. I am just trying to understand who is controlling the pace of events. Is it BC or the court?

 

10. How much is the claim for excluding costs?

 

Your answers to the above questions will help everybody on here to better understand your situation.

 

My initial thoughts, not being familiar with either Bryan Carter or your paperwork is that if the judge has asked them to comply with your SAR and you have received nothing but the statement then BC (or Arrow) have not complied with the SAR as they would undoubtedly have to supply you with much more information such as customer care logs, and other material.

 

Also, they have not supplied a copy of the original contract (though you probably have not asked for it either).

 

I think once you have provided the answers above, there will be a lot more questions from myself and other CAGers so we understand your situation. As you have ten days there is no need for immediate panic.

 

Wait for some other CAGers to come on here and offer advice before you do anything.

 

Good Luck.

[Fourfingers]

1.I have used orange before but along time ago i thought i was all payed off

 

2.The account started on the 23rd sep 2004

 

3.I sent a SAR to arrow months ago but no reply then i started getting letters from Frederickson's International and lots of phone calls the phone calls stopped then it was Bryan Carter so i sent them a SAR No reply then i got a court summons of which i defended and also sent another SAR to Bryan carter but this time recorded.

 

The Court gave me a reply dated 12/01/10 saying BC had 28 days to reply to my defence.

 

I also got a letter from BC dated 14/01/10 saying my account was on hold untill further instructions from their client.

 

I have contacted the court and BC have not replyed to them yet but they have me with a lett

Edited February 23, 2010 by Fourfingers

[comebackjimmy]

Forgive me if I clarify the main points:

 

1. Bryan Carter issued a County court summons.

 

2. You filed a defence. Your defence was that they had not replied to your Subject Access Request for information?

 

3. You sent BC another SAR this time recorded.

 

4. The court gave BC 28 days to provide you with the data requested which expired on 9th February.

 

5. On the 11th February, 2 days after BC should have replied they sent you the statement saying that was all they had on file.

 

6. They say you must contact them by 21st February and offer a payment plan or they will proceed with court action.

 

7. They are claiming a total of £570.14 including court costs, which is less than the statement figure of £741.54

 

Assuming the above is an accurate summary then:

 

1. We need some other CAGers to come on here and help with some ideas to defend this.

 

2. I would think BC need as a minimum the original agreement you signed with Orange.

 

3. Additionally, I am not sure if what they have is enough by itself to secure a court victory for themselves. We need other experienced CAGers.

 

4. In a situation where a County Court summons has been issued it is normal to ask the opposing party for the documents they will rely upon in court rather than send a SAR (though it does no harm in itself as it can sometimes reveal useful material). You therefore need to follow the usual processes of any dispute and ask for their evidence. If they don't provide it you can then enter what is known as an embarrassed defence which means you don't have the information to defend.

 

The normal processes can be a bit intimidating if you don't know what you are doing and I don't as I have never had to do them.

 

I say at this point wait for 48 hours to see who comes on to offer some advice. If none is forthcoming I would write to BC and ask them for all documentation they intend to rely upon in court for their claim. There is a template on here for that but wait to see if we get a more expert CAGer to take you through that as I have never needed to do it myself.

[dx100uk]

urm..typical BC tactics here of split claims

 

there are lots of threads on these jokers, use the search and get clued up,

 

if BC has no agreement they are dead in the water.

 

dx

[Fourfingers]

1. I got court summons from Northampton court

 

2. I filed my defence by saying i dont acknowledge any debt and that i had asked for a SAR and the account was in dispute i sent the proper letter from this site..

 

3.Yes i also sent another SAR this time recorded i have proof of that and bc replied saying the account was now on hold but they still have not sent everything i asked for in the SAR just the statement i phoned the court today and they are giving BC to the end of the week to see if they want to proceed..

 

4.yes the court gave BC 28 days but they said they are allowing for postal times to

 

5.BC Replied yesterday and only sent the statement nothing else

[dx100uk]

i'll just say this.....

 

BC is a VERY VERY slippery customer, watch them like a hawk.!!!!

 

now, i'd do some reading on them, that way you are fully conversant with such tactics and HOW you need to deal with it.

 

but, BC are easily squashed.

 

 

dx

[Fourfingers]

Well the court will be sending me a letter soon BC may proceed or it may be stayed if BC don't reply to the court...I think i have done all i can do ..

[lookinforinfo]

Not sure that it was worth a tenner to SAR BC since they would not have built up much about you in the short time of dealing with you. Also they can claim

client privilege between Orange and themselves. Nevertheless, I would be surprised if that is all they have on you. I would write back to BC putting them to strict proof that they have included everything you are entitled to under the SAR and pointing out that they will be aware it is a serious offence not to comply fully.

 

Do you know who owns the alleged debt? I feel that it should have been

Orange that you sent the SAR to as they would be obliged to send you the agreement, the T&Cs , a financial statement and whatever correspondence that had with you for the recovery of the alleged debt.

[Fourfingers]

Not sure that it was worth a tenner to SAR BC since they would not have built up much about you in the short time of dealing with you. Also they can claim

client privilege between Orange and themselves. Nevertheless, I would be surprised if that is all they have on you. I would write back to BC putting them to strict proof that they have included everything you are entitled to under the SAR and pointing out that they will be aware it is a serious offence not to comply fully.

 

Do you know who owns the alleged debt? I feel that it should have been

Orange that you sent the SAR to as they would be obliged to send you the agreement, the T&Cs , a financial statement and whatever correspondence that had with you for the recovery of the alleged debt.

 

Is there a letter template i can use about strick proof i would hate to get to court and find out they do have more on me and not produced it...

[Fourfingers]

BC,S Client is ARROW GLOBAL Orange have never contacted me (ever) no letters nothing it was always Global and Fredericksons that have made my life a missery and now BC are sticking there boot in and taking court action and with what one orange statement because they say they have nothing else i'm getting stitched up here surely the courts wont take there side they have given me nothing i have requested..

[Fourfingers]

Hi

 

Just to let you all know i have been in contact with the court and they have confirmed that the court proceeding have been stayed as Bryan Carter have failed to provide the SAR...

 

Can anyone advise what to do now can i get the default lifted from the CRA...

 

Many Thanks...

[Fourfingers]

Hi

 

To cut a long story short i have had problems with ARROW GLOBAL/FREDERICKSONS & then BRYAN CARTER.....

 

Carter issued court proceedings against me for an alledged ORANGE MOBILE DEBT..

 

I contested the debt through court and asked for an SAR. Carter never replied to the court but he replied to me and all he provided was a orange mobile bill and said that was all he had and i had to pay within 10 days or he would proceed with court..

I told him to shove it and stick it up his arse and that i would see him in court....

 

Just today i contacted the court and they told me CARTER NEVER REPLIED within the time allowed so the court proceedings are now stayed...

 

1. Does anyone think he will apply to the court to lift the stay.

 

2.As he has not proceeded in court does that mean i can get the default ARROW GLOBAL listed with the CRA (Thats right its listed with a CRA as a default i know nothing about this bloody debt....

 

If anyone could help that would be great...

[buzby]

Different things.

 

The SAR request should be served on Orange payng the appropriate fee, not anyone else. I'm surprised the action was stayed, if the pursuer doesn't turn up (and you were there) you could ask the judge to dismiss. As it stands, he can re-awaken it at any time.

 

Lastly, the CRA default reflects what Orange placed on your file. If you have no recollection of ever having a mobile from them, it is to them you need to contact for the substantiation (the SAR is the best way). and once it is established it has nothing to do with you, Orange will have to remove it from your file.

[maroondevo52]

Two threads merged.

[Fourfingers]

Hi

 

Let me re word this a little bit sorry i was not very clear i had already asked the DCA for a subject access request and they never replied and after that BRYAN CARTER started court proceedings.

 

So i contested the debt and wrote back to the court saying i have no knowledge of the debt and that i had previosly asked the DCA for a SAR and i felt the claim was in dispute.

 

I also told the court that i had sent another SAR to BRYAN CARTER this time and that i sent it recorded delivery the court wrote back and said they passed my defence to BRYAN CARTER and that they had to reply within the time limit they never did reply to to court but did make more money demands from me hence why it was stayed..

 

As to the default the name on the default shows arrow global not orange..

 

Who do i write to..

Edited February 23, 2010 by Fourfingers

[dx100uk]

as advised you need to SAR orange.

that will give you ALL the facts that these leechers are relying upon.

 

then take things from there.

 

pers, i'd write to the court,

clearly stating that BC have [still] failed the SAR in your eyes, and you are sending a new SAR to orange to get to the bottom of the debt & also to gather the info to remove false information placed on your credit file by arroe global as it is not your debt

 

i would also ask about how you might seek compensation when you prove the debt is not yours

 

dx

[buzby]

As dx notes - this is a matter for Orange, nobody else. When you requested your two SAR's (that were never supplied), had you paid for them? If not - you cannot complain. If you did, that;s a breach and a complaint to the ICO is required, as they only have 40 days to comply.

 

Next. Arrow have no right to Default you - UNLESS you entered into a separate arrangement with them. Orange could (as their agreement does allow them to) but as you did not give Arrow or anyone else associated with this permission OTHER than Orange, you need to remind them that they have broken the terms of the DPA and you call upon them to remove the default forthwith, and certainly no later than 28 days from receipt of your letter. If this is not done, you will raise a formal complaint with the ICO to force its removal.

 

 

So - start at the top with Orange to get the information you require, and if it doesn't make any sense, or there are errors, you address them here. THis won;t ensure any default removal (as they didn't place any), but it can improve any pre-default erroneous data.

[Fourfingers]

Hi

 

Thankyou for all the advice everybody but i have now recieved notice from BRYAN CARTER that all legal proceeding have been withdrawn and the claim has been returned to the client ARROW GLOBAL..

 

I have also been in contact with the cra and they have agreed with me if they can not prove the debt is mine nor neither provide me with the SAR as requested they ARROW GLOBAL can not prove i gave permission to share my data with the CRA.

 

The CRA is contacting ARROW TO ask for the information in question and if they cant they say they have to remove the default..

 

Does this info sound about right do i need to do anything else should i also sent a letter to arrow if so what is the best template to use...

[buzby]

You've got it covered. There's little point in contacting Arrow - they are not your friend, and if they wish to contact you, they know how.

 

Let the CRA seek its information and push them for removal of any adverse data once a reasonable timeframe has elapsed.

[Fourfingers]

Thanks Buzby..

 

I will sit tight and wait for a reply...

 

On to the next one..

 

I have another default on my file made by WELCOME FINANCE..

 

The debt was passed on to HILLESDEN SECURITIES..I am aware of the debt and admit it was mine but i have not heard anything from them neither did i get any letters..

 

The debt started on 17/01/2003 the amount was for nearly £4000

Upon Receiving a copy of my credit file i noticed it had defaulted i contacted Hillesden and sent them a letter saying the debt was STATUDE BARRED...

 

They agreed with me and said the Account was now closed and that nobody would be contacting me from now on...

 

Question can this default be removed from the CRA as the account is now closed.....

[buzby]

I wish!

 

No. The default is seen as a statement of fact, so irrespective of the account (unless it is incorrect) it will stay on your file for the proscribed term. Now, if the agreement is Statute Barred you should be getting close to where the default will itself be time barred (same 6 year period), so bear this in mind.

Edited February 24, 2010 by buzby

[Fourfingers]

Cheers Buzby..

[comebackjimmy]

Hi Fourfingers

 

Cant advise on your post 20 but just to say well done for sticking up for yourself and sharing it with us on here. It offers encouragement to all.

 

Congratulations (so far).