please can someone help me figure out if welcomes figures are correct?

[donkey123]

there's something fishy about their figures but I'm no mathematician, so wondered if some kind soul will help?

 

a) Amount used to settle existing loan agreement £771.10

b) Amount of new cash advanced £2028.90

c) Medicare 24 £200 (which i was told i needed to get to get the loan in the first place)

d) lifecare 24 £0

e) homecare 24 £0

f) collision call £0

g) other £0

 

h) Optional payment protection insurance £819.25 (which i was told i needed to get to get the loan in the first place)

i) Amount of credit (a+b+c+d+e+f+g+h) £3819.25

j) Acceptance Fee £75

 

(they seem to have added this to total amount of loan and not total credit part i) can they do this as presumably they are getting interest on the acceptance fee which wasn't in the total amount of credit but added to the total amount of loan?) I'm confused!

 

k) Total amount of loan £3894.25

 

this next part i can't seem to work out the same figures, can you check and see if its correct please?

 

Amount of monthly payment £158.98

APR 32.50 %

Rate of interest 2.25 % a month

Estimated repayment period 36 months

 

 

 

i worked out that 36 months at 158.98 = £5723.28 (no where on the contract is the total amount payable, which i thought was odd, don't they have to have this?)

 

so total amount of interest is £1829.03

[beyondhope]

*bump* sorry im not good with figures but this will move your post back to the top

[ozzywizard]

I will double check all your figures with you later Donkey when I more time online.

[emanevs]

£3894.25 @ £158.98 For 36 Months Is 30.6% Apr

 

Total Anount Payable = £5723.28

[donkey123]

Thanks guys, so have they got the APR wrong? as they have put 32.5 APR. Also what is the 2.25 % interest, have they worked it out right? if they haven't does this mean the contract is unenforceable?

 

and lastly i read somewhere that if they have charged interest on the acceptance fee, which they have the contract is unenforceable is that right? i noticed that they haven't added it to the total amount of credit, but they have to the total loan amount.

[emanevs]

I would say unenforceable. APR is wrong

 

interest on the acceptance fee is a bit grey in my view, since the Walker Case, but each case is on its on merit me thinks.

 

have a read of this link on unenforceability.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements-guide.html

[mark1arby]

Donkey 123. Sorry M8 no use to you yet on interest rates and %. Will be soon though, when Ozzy has finished training me up! ( he dosen`t know he`s teaching me yet) lol

 

I think the thing with acceptance fee and interest being charged on it, then putting the whole agreement in to question is up in the air again. This is due to some test cases that were heard in Manchester a while ago now. It has thrown a spanner in the works on a lot of things for Caggers trying to dispute their agreements.

 

There is a thread " Dissecting the Manchester test cases " or something like that. Can`t find it at the mo. but will point you to it ASAP. See if you can find it. It may answer a few things for you.

 

Not much help but we will keep your thread live until the maths guys take a look.

 

cheers, Mark

[emanevs]

on post 4, I used dual calc if that helps.

[emanevs]

post 7 - here it is:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/240186-dissecting-manchester-test-case.html

[jamesf104]

Cost of credit not shown (interest + arrangement fee) which is a prescibed term. I think they do this so that you dont fully know, without some calculation, the actual cost of your loan this would also include the total payable. This information is required to be shown on the agreement. Also the PPI should be shown as a seperate agreement and signed and paid for separately. I also agree that the APR is wrong. Your agreement is not executed properly and is probably unenforcible. Is it a secured loan? If so you have the possibility of removing this charge due to agreement not being properly executed.

[ozzywizard]

Will be soon though, when Ozzy has finished training me up! ( he dosen`t know he`s teaching me yet) lol

 

 

LOL, first rule of being an apprentice >>>> GO MAKE THE COFFEE MARK. . .

[beyondhope]

LOL, first rule of being an apprentice >>>> GO MAKE THE COFFEE MARK. . .

 

 

**look at mark muzzling in on my apprentice job!!**white one sugar tea please mark :grin:**

[donkey123]

thanks guys, its not a secured loan. Do you think i have a chance of it being unenforceable then?

[mark1arby]

**look at mark muzzling in on my apprentice job!!**white one sugar tea please mark :grin:**

 

PLEASE!!!

[mark1arby]

Bloody Good Teamwork in the last few posts guys and Gals. Brilliant stuff!!!

[emanevs]

if anyone agrees with my figures, yes, unenforceble.

[donkey123]

is that just because they got the APR wrong? or are there other things wrong?

[emanevs]

Its a breach of the prescribed term - c post my 6

[donkey123]

Thanks, whats my next step then?

[emanevs]

write to them and put the account into dispute.

 

wait for their response, if not acceptable report them to the FOS.

 

When you have the FOS upholding your complaint submit a court claim.

[ozzywizard]

To check if their are other things wrong we would really need to check your contract, post it up for us minus any personnel details now to check your figures.

 

 

First off Ems calculations are bang on . . the APR is calculated at 30.6 .

 

 

Your saying your loan is for 2800 at an APR of 32.50 % over 36 months is :

monthly payment £116.53

interest £1,395.29

total repayable £4,195.29

 

and your insurance is 1019.25

monthly payments £42.42

total interest £507.91

total payable £1,527.16

 

............ so if we add up the interest of the loan and insurance we get 1903.20 add the acceptance fee of 75 is 1978.20 add loan of 2800 is 4778.20 then add insurance which is 5797.45 being total payable back from you to welcome.

 

so if we divide this figure by 36 we get true monthly payment of 161.04 .

 

welcome want you to pay back 158.98 which is total payable of 5723.28. so leaves you out at end of contract by 74.17 which tells me they forgot to intergrate your acceptance fee rather than getting the APR wrong.

[ozzywizard]

can I add I did this by hand with no template etc and I had 5 kids running round me so if wrong I apologise in advance. . . . lol . . . will double check later but think its right . . you defo need to claim your PPI back. I can do the figures for you and also ask them to remove 75 from the loan for the acceptance fee as they forgot to intergrate it into the calculations anyway lol.

[donkey123]

so the big question is, is it enforceable?

[emanevs]

ozzy, im impressed!

 

couldnt do that in my head, or by hand, ha,ha.

 

One thing for us all, by claiming this money back would that then mean that there is no breach of prescribed term - and no unenforceability????

 

I would personally, go for unenforceability, let them keep the money!!!

 

[donkey123]

so how would i phrase it in a letter that the contract is unenforceable?