Petrified and a Nervous wreck

[jolajo]

Please can someone advise me as i am as i say in title, Petrified my lifeline car be towed away and nervous wreck jumping to every sound outside thinking they are taking it, all due to a £35 parking ticket...

 

A Parking Ticket I managed to put my mind to appeal over last year, but.........

unfortunately this lapsed due to me not being consistant with the appeal mainly due to health reason. I then offered to pay in instalements my support worker (i see due to my health) advised this but said it depended on how empathetic the person spoke with was?...Guess What if i can afford to drive a car i can afford to pay fines..

 

Cut a long story short, fine doubled to £70 which was more difficult to pay out (receipt of incapacity benefit,divorced single parent of 2 so Inc Support also)

Manchester City council kindly passed on to Marsdons Bailliffs, although i kept letters from MCC i dont recall receipt of any from them...anyhow

6-55am yesterday morning there was a tiny tiny tap on my door, i heard only as awake.

A bailiff informed me my car had been clamped and handed me a 'Notice of siezure of Goods,Inventory,Warrant of execution' (i didnt sign for anything)

The Notice says

'today i have siezed and distrained the goods to the sum of £304.03 (from £35 BAH)

Inventory named my car ...

 

Im puzzled as

1. they hadnt clamped it as told it had?

2. said siezed which i thought meant to take away, but they hadnt?

3. A sticker stuck on the window said,

car had been immobilised and Impounded in excecussion of a distress warrent?

 

Help really appreciated xx

[seanamarts]

have you a disabled badge by any chance or is your car registered as a disabled vehicle, then if so he cannot clamp it..

Please write to your head of parking at your local council, let them know you are classed as vulnerable according to the National Standards for enforcement agents. Offer the council payment of so much a week, at least a tenner even if you cannot afford it make an offer. In the mean time Hide your car. some one will be along to help with more info..

[diamondgirl]

Any friends got a garage you can use if you haven't one of your own?

If not anyone got a drive you can use?

Get it off the road and away from where you live, if you park it on a public road they may just spot it.

Get a letter off to MCC make a complaint about how you were spoken to and the response you got and make a reasonable offer of payment over however many weeks/months you think it will take.

Typical of MCC they do the most rediculous things and quite often to the most vulnerable.

Hang in there Im sure more informed caggers will be along later but if you can move your car.

DG

[hallowitch]

seized and distrained the goods to the sum of £304.03

 

you must find out when this was passed to the bailiff by the council

 

you have charged bailiffs initial letter fee

plus 3 bailiffs visit fees & a levy fee

 

you must dispute these fees with the bailiffs and the council

ask the council and the bailiffs for a screenshot of your account

the council may not send it and direct you to the bailiffs but they must tell you the date it was passed to the bailiffs

the bailiffs may try to charge you £10 for this at the very least you want a breakdown of charges

you want

date &time of each visit that incurred a fee reason for the visit name of the bailiff that attended where fee was charged

the council may not send it and direct you to the bailiffs

 

you are classed as venerable according to the national standards for enforcement agents you must make the council and the bailiffs aware of this now by e-mail followed up proof in a recorded delivery letter

[RaeUK]

Hi jolajo,

Don't worry.

Do let us know if your car is on motability as it wouldn't then belong to you.

And if you have a blue badge then we know one part of the council is aware of your disabilities...

As has been mentioned, you would be in the vulnerable category as laid out in the National Standards:

 

Department for Constitutional Affairs - Enforcement - National Standards for Enforcement Agents

 

Those who might be considered vulnerable include the following:

the elderly;

people with a disability;

the seriously ill;

the recently bereaved;

single parent families;

pregnant women;

unemployed people; and,

those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.

 

Whilst not law, they are the standards both council and bailiff should be meeting. Surprisingly, they sometimes pretend the Standards don't exist and need reminding...

Make sure you include this information when you write / email the council and bailiff. And that, if required, you can provide medical evidence of any health condition affecting you.

The bailiff should return the case to the council. The council should accept it merrily and make an affordable and sustainable payment plan with you.

 

You may wish to involve your local councillor.

 

Best wishes, good luck and - above all - relax.

Rae.

Edited February 10, 2010 by RaeUK
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[jolajo]

Firstly, Thank you all for taking the time to advice me.

 

In answer to your questions,

No I dont hold a Disabled Badge, I was refused by the DLA although suffer from Chronic Bronchitus and have a pair of lungs double my age +6yrs!!!

 

I dont have a garage but can park around the back which is secluded. I have a Private Drive, Can they still enter and sieze with it being on Private land?

 

I shall try to get the proof needed to confirm I have COPD and under a Psyciatrist and Psycologist for help with depression and anxiety..

 

Now I have the advice, the hard work starts now for me gathering together information required and letter writing etc

Sooo very unnecessery really if the stuborn mule had accepted my offer of payment months ago.

If Only , If Only, If Only....

Im having dealings with the local police at the present time also due to ongoing Anti Social Behaviour, Friday gone a slab of concrete was thrown through my front window, 5 mins earlier would of hit my daughter! This was because the same lad this week was to appear in court on a charge of throwing a vodka bottle threw the same window 6 weeks ago...

 

How much can one take, all at once , I do wonder ??

[RaeUK]

You're not having a fun time!

But may I welcome you into the COPD club?

If you haven't already done so, arrange with your GP practice to have a spirometry test. This will accurately assess your lung capacity and categorise the level of problem. If you have had one done [i would expect this to be the case] then your GP will happily let you have a copy of the results. The figure you're looking for is the FEV1. For example, mine is 49. Which shows my lungs are only working at 49% efficiency. The printout will also give an interpretation. Mine states: Severe airways obstruction. You may also ask for a copy of the Medical Research Council dyspnoea scale. This is a simple 1-5 scale of breathlessness. Mine is scale 4.

Those two documents are all you should need - and a little explanation of what they mean! Many people still don't understand that COPD - Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease - is the modern term for what was two seperate diseases: Chronic Bronchitis and Emphysema. By its nature it is a debillitating progressive disease with no cure. Its symptoms can only be managed.

Depending on where you are with it, gaining a blue badge is not out of the question. All councils have a discretionary method of issue. The documents mentioned should be of assistance.

Best wishes.

Rae.

Edited February 11, 2010 by RaeUK
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[RaeUK]

Just an aside - with the Site Teams forbearence - don't feel downhearted by being refused DLA. I think most of us with COPD will find DLA problematic. There is a good Benefits Forum on site and a more detailed discussion could take place there. But, in essence, the problem is that it is exceedingly difficult to get Higher Rate Mobility - which many of us need - whilst not requiring the care component at all. I can do all the basics - though socks are a problem! - but I can't walk 50 yards without severe discomfort.

It's an odd life...

Rae.

[RaeUK]

Sorry, one other thing whilst I'm thinking about it.

Your spirometry printout will also have another important reading. This is the PEF. It's the same reading you would get from a peak flow meter. Recently [i don't know when] the PEF scales used in the UK where adjusted to meet EU wide standards. (There's a surprise!). There is a slight discrepancy between the readings.

For example, at my ESA ATOS medical, the doctor used a peak flow meter. This gave me a reading of 240 - equivalent to an 85 year old. That was on the newer EU scale. My spirometry results - which, as it's an older machine, read out on the old UK scale - puts it at 314. They roughly measure up as the same thing.

Yes, I know, I'm becoming a COPD anorak. I need to get out more. Only I can't go far...

Best wishes.

Rae.

[seanamarts]

You dont have to be in receipt of DLA to get a blue badge have a chat with your GP about applying for one

[fluffy_bunny]

Sorry but if the car has been seized (this means levied on not clamped) it is legally in the hands of the law now and you could be commiting an offence by moving it.

 

Leave it where it is whilst you fight this - have sent you a PM (or maybe not! Why can't I send one to you???)

 

You need to contact this guy, he is in charge of the bailiffs [email protected]

[seanamarts]

Sorry but if the car has been seized (this means levied on not clamped) it is legally in the hands of the law now and you could be commiting an offence by moving it.

 

Leave it where it is whilst you fight this - have sent you a PM (or maybe not! Why can't I send one to you???)

 

You need to contact this guy, he is in charge of the bailiffs [email protected]

 

So basically she cannot use her car, is that what you are saying here..

[fluffy_bunny]

If it's subject to a Walking Possession I understand it is in the property of the Law.

[ploddertom]

So basically she cannot use her car, is that what you are saying here..

 

If it has been lawfully levied then theoretically it no longer belongs to her but can still be used for day to day things. It is illegal however to dispose, sell - unless sold previously and a bill of sale can be produced - or otherwise hidden. In other words it must still be generally available should the 5 days the WP gives you to make payment or agreement to pay. If no payment or default on any plan then car can then be removed and sold at auction.

 

PT

[seanamarts]

so if she happens to be using the car when they come to collect it she wouldnt be breaking any laws?

[ploddertom]

so if she happens to be using the car when they come to collect it she wouldnt be breaking any laws?

 

No

 

PT

[seanamarts]

No

 

PT

[ploddertom]

 

Don't mean to be a pain in the derriere but assume someone must have inferred otherwise. Think about it another way - levy just been done on your 66" telly while watching Sky 1, does this mean you cannot either watch it full stop or change to another channel - I know that illustration is extreme but it follows the same thought.

 

PT

[seanamarts]

Don't mean to be a pain in the derriere but assume someone must have inferred otherwise. Think about it another way - levy just been done on your 66" telly while watching Sky 1, does this mean you cannot either watch it full stop or change to another channel - I know that illustration is extreme but it follows the same thought.

 

PT

now thats scary I was thinking the same thing but my TV was a few inches smaller... I really need to get off this train of thought I have in my head with these innuendos

[bladeboy]

Right, after all the little side tracks let's get back to the point of taking these legalised bandits on.

 

Firstly, the bailiff industry is very poorly regulated and they will always overcharge because most people do bugger all about it.

 

OK, parking fines, and the manner in which certified bailiffs can collect on the unpaid fines, is regulated by a statutory instrument; their [bailiff's] fees, charges and expenses are regulated by Statutory Instrument, namely Schedule 1 of The Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts Order 1993 (SI 1993/2072) (“the Order”).

The relevants parts are:

TABLE OF FEES CHARGES AND EXPENSES

(excluding Value Added Tax)

1. For preparing and sending a letter advising the debtor that a warrant is with the bailiff and requesting the total sum due

£11.20

 

Note: The fee under paragraph 1 can only be recovered if the letter is sent before a first visit is made to the debtor's premises.

2. For levying distress—

(i) Where the sum demanded and due does not exceed £100

£25.00

(ii) Where the sum demanded and exceeds £100

28% on the first £200 due; 5.5% on any additional sum over £200

 

3. For attending to levy distress but where the levy is not made, the reasonable costs and charges for attending to levy. The costs and charges are not to exceed the fees and charges which would have been due under paragraph 2 above if the distress had been levied. The costs and charges are subject to detailed assessment under rule 11.

Note: The aggregate costs and charges payable under paragraphs 2 and 3 are not to exceed the costs and charges allowed for three attendances to levy distress.

What they have done in your case is to attend to levy distress but the levy has not been made. There is also no walk in possession agreement - you didn't sign anything!

OK, they can charge you for the initial fine (which including court fee is probably £80. The letter fee £11.20 and the levy distress fee, where they did not actually levy, and this cannot be more than £25.00.

The total you owe, excluding VAT, is £ 116.20.

They cannot lawfully charge any more than this but you can see why they do. Hell, if I was collecting my own salary I'd make it up if I had got away with it loads of times in the past. Judges that have revoked certified bailiff's certificates in the past have felt extremely annoyed that they can't punish the firms employing the tossers - in your case Marstons.

If the Council won't take the fine back (very unlikely) you'll have to pay the fine/charges and then claim back via the county court.

Also, don't bother complaining to the council or the bailiff regulators - they're a waste of space and all in it together for mutual interests.

Go to the HMCS website and download a FORM 4 - on this you can complain direct to the court that granted the bailiff their certificate to practice. The bailiff will then have to explain their actions and you can attend the hearing if you want to. Would be nice to see them squirm for a change eh?

Any more, just ask.

[welsh1]

Right, after all the little side tracks let's get back to the point of taking these legalised bandits on.

 

Firstly, the bailiff industry is very poorly regulated and they will always overcharge because most people do bugger all about it.

 

OK, parking fines, and the manner in which certified bailiffs can collect on the unpaid fines, is regulated by a statutory instrument; their [bailiff's] fees, charges and expenses are regulated by Statutory Instrument, namely Schedule 1 of The Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts Order 1993 (SI 1993/2072) (“the Order”).

The relevants parts are:

TABLE OF FEES CHARGES AND EXPENSES

(excluding Value Added Tax)

1. For preparing and sending a letter advising the debtor that a warrant is with the bailiff and requesting the total sum due

£11.20

 

Note: The fee under paragraph 1 can only be recovered if the letter is sent before a first visit is made to the debtor's premises.

2. For levying distress—

(i) Where the sum demanded and due does not exceed £100

£25.00

(ii) Where the sum demanded and exceeds £100

28% on the first £200 due; 5.5% on any additional sum over £200

 

3. For attending to levy distress but where the levy is not made, the reasonable costs and charges for attending to levy. The costs and charges are not to exceed the fees and charges which would have been due under paragraph 2 above if the distress had been levied. The costs and charges are subject to detailed assessment under rule 11.

Note: The aggregate costs and charges payable under paragraphs 2 and 3 are not to exceed the costs and charges allowed for three attendances to levy distress.

What they have done in your case is to attend to levy distress but the levy has not been made. There is also no walk in possession agreement - you didn't sign anything!

OK, they can charge you for the initial fine (which including court fee is probably £80. The letter fee £11.20 and the levy distress fee, where they did not actually levy, and this cannot be more than £25.00.

The total you owe, excluding VAT, is £ 116.20.

They cannot lawfully charge any more than this but you can see why they do. Hell, if I was collecting my own salary I'd make it up if I had got away with it loads of times in the past. Judges that have revoked certified bailiff's certificates in the past have felt extremely annoyed that they can't punish the firms employing the tossers - in your case Marstons.

If the Council won't take the fine back (very unlikely) you'll have to pay the fine/charges and then claim back via the county court.

Also, don't bother complaining to the council or the bailiff regulators - they're a waste of space and all in it together for mutual interests.

Go to the HMCS website and download a FORM 4 - on this you can complain direct to the court that granted the bailiff their certificate to practice. The bailiff will then have to explain their actions and you can attend the hearing if you want to. Would be nice to see them squirm for a change eh?

Any more, just ask.

 

Please read the post before giving advice,the op stated this at the begining of the thread,

'today i have siezed and distrained the goods to the sum of £304.03 (from £35 BAH)

Inventory named my car ...

 

It just helps the poster if good and correct advice is given.

[bladeboy]

Please read the post before giving advice,the op stated this at the begining of the thread,

'today i have siezed and distrained the goods to the sum of £304.03 (from £35 BAH)

Inventory named my car ...

 

It just helps the poster if good and correct advice is given.

 

 

Advice is still as before. 'Seized' is the same as 'levy of distress' at this stage in the proceedings. Until the levy has been made in the first instance, and the bailiff then returns to actually take the goods away, no removal costs can be charged for.

 

The Statutory Instruments schedule of charges still stands and charges outside of this are unlawful.

 

Also, the Common Law principle that a bailiff may recover only for fees necessarily and actually incurred (Cohen v Das Rivas (1894) 64 LT 661) is relevant.

If the car was actually removed and taken away on a transporter then 'reasonable' costs would apply. All that has happened here is that a letter has been put through the door!

Worth taking it to county court to get the unlawful charges back. Especially as in small claims you can't get costs awarded against you. The court fee for this should be about £45. The bailiff firm probably wouldn't got to trial for simply commercial reasons, especially if the Particulars of Claim were well put together and comprehensive with quoted case law.

What's your advice then welsh?

[hallowitch]

Cut a long story short, fine doubled to £70 which was more difficult to pay

 

parking ticket for £70

 

£304 is not far off

 

for letter fee 3 visit fees levy fee and walking possession fee

IF the letter was sent and IF there were 3 visits and IF levy walking possession took pace after 3rd visit and not on 3rd visit

[bladeboy]

Also take a look at:

 

JUDGE VOICES HIS CONTEMPT FOR BAILIFFS MODERN TIMES IN MUDSHIRES

[welsh1]

Please read the post before giving advice,the op stated this at the begining of the thread,

'today i have siezed and distrained the goods to the sum of £304.03 (from £35 BAH)

Inventory named my car ...

 

It just helps the poster if good and correct advice is given.

 

Advice is still as before. 'Seized' is the same as 'levy of distress' at this stage in the proceedings. Until the levy has been made in the first instance, and the bailiff then returns to actually take the goods away, no removal costs can be charged for.

 

The Statutory Instruments schedule of charges still stands and charges outside of this are unlawful.

 

Also, the Common Law principle that a bailiff may recover only for fees necessarily and actually incurred (Cohen v Das Rivas (1894) 64 LT 661) is relevant.]If the car was actually removed and taken away on a transporter then 'reasonable' costs would apply. All that has happened here is that a letter has been put through the door!

 

I will explain as i see it,i am sure some of the members will help correct me i f i am wrong.

The letter that has been put through the door is quite an important piece of paper,it shows the bailiff has seized/taken into his possesion the items listed on that piece of paper.This means the bailiff has clearly shown that he has seized goods and they may not be removed(this has already been talked about earlier in the thread.)

The reasonable costs would be when he comes to remove that vehicle,if he charged £500 for a removal truck then it would be seen to be excessive and he would be making a financial gain,this would then be illegal CAG'ERS please confirm i have this part right:),but if he charged the going rate for a removal truck this would be correct,because he is charging the cost of removal,and no financial gain.

 

I totally agree if he has charged incorrect fees then he should hung up to dry,i am no good at this,but most of the posters on here will find out if he has charged incorrectly,thats what they are very good at:D

 

As for the county court route,why?if he has acted correctly then there is no claim,i would think that the bailiff company will dispute the claim if they are correct.and the op will just have more stress.

 

The way forward is to make sure he has done things correctly,that is what the forum is for,and if he has acted illegally then take action.