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    • Hello,

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Egg Debt


Davidoff
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Hi all

 

Having never received anything but prevarication from Egg, today I received a letter from them which states: "The documents provided in response to your request constituted a true copy of the agreement. This consisted of a copy of the original terms and condition of your agreement together with the original interest rates, applicable at the time of your application.

 

The copy agreement did not include the signature box or date of signature in accordance with regulation 3(2)(b)(ii) of Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983: as permitted by these regulations we are not required to provide them."

 

Although, as stated above, I have not received the CCA or anything else from them they also go on to say that they have also provided me with current terms and conditions and detailed the status of my account, outstanding balance and referred me to the approprate clauses of the terms and conditions. They state, among other things, that they have provided all the documentation they are required to provide by law and have now closed my complaint.

 

They are obviously trying it on because they haven't sent me anything. I only received a letter on 13th January (dated 24th November 2009 but postmarked 11th January 2010) stating that the £1 fee had still not been paid (even though it had and I have proof that it has) and that they could not provide me with my CCA until I paid this fee.

 

I'm just a layman but I don't see how any agreement which doesn't have a signature or date on it can be a legal document.

 

Would someone please throw some light on this as I am about to reply to them that they still haven't sent me the documents and i want to make sure that I can hit them with everything I can at once.

 

Best Regards

 

Davidoff

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Hi Davidoff :)

 

Re the Egg Credit Card. Same applies with this re the charges as above-if the debt includes them, but if so save that as a last resort if they fail to prove they have a Credit Agreement.

The guff they have sent you is, ridiculously, an "acceptable" response to a CCA request under Section 77 / 78. They are allowed to supply only a reconstruction if they choose. It begs the question, if they have a signed agreement why not just send a copy of it? It's designed to fudge the issue and make you give up. Don't.

It's important that you understand the ins and outs of this, so bear with me and have a read through this excellent thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/211306-new-tack-supplying-cca.html

 

I'll catch you later when you've had chance to read up on it.

Thanks for the nudge :)

Elsa xx

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi

 

With regard to Egg they are really getting on my nerves now and I want shot of them - legally of course. The last but one letter from them stated that they had recently sent the CA docs to me. I replied that they hadn't etc. They replied today that the complaint is closed even though Egg still haven't provided any CA and previously have :

 

a) Issued a Default Notice whilst my request for a CA request had not been complied with (for over 6 mths). After receiving the DN I contacted EGG by telephone and was told not to worry as I had an agreed payment plan in place (although they would never put this in writing).

b) Egg then terminated the agreement

c) EGG then sold on the account to Cabot whilst a CAR had not been complied with - Cabot sent me a letter stating that they have also tried to get the CAR from Egg but so far have not been successful and are therefore suspending collection on the account.

 

I am concerned that there is a default notification registered with the credit reference agencies for this account. Is this illegal and can I demand to get it removed? Can I demand that Egg and Cabot cease attempting to get this money back due to the infringements or any other legalities?

 

Your assistance is greatly appreciated - even if you can just point the way to a thread which covers this aspect.

 

Best regards

 

Davidoff

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Hi

 

I have requested a copy of the alleged CCA (many times), originally over 6 mths ago. Originally, and subsequently, they have said that I hadn't sent the £1 but I knew they had cashed the cheque. Unfortunately for them their systems had crashed about that time and the person in charge of IT had sent me a copy of the transactions showing actual transaction numbers, which cannot normally be seen, and these showed the £1 cheque had been received and cashed by Egg.

 

I had what I believed was a repayment plan but they issued a DN even though they had not supplied the CCA. The slimy devils, when I telephoned them about the DN (they would never put anything in writing), they told me not to worry as I had an agreed payment plan in operation.

 

When I made a complaint they wrote and asked me to bear with them and then terminated the alleged agreement and sold it on to Cabot.

 

Cabot backed off when I sent them a letter explaining the alleged agreement was in dispute. Cabot have also tried to get a copy of the alleged CCA from Egg but without success and have suspended collection.

 

Recently Egg wrote that they have sent me the alleged CCA but they still have not and I have written to tell them so. They have written back that the complaint is closed even though they have still not supplied the CCA

 

I have checked Experian and the DN is shown against me.

 

I am about to send a letter to Egg demanding they remove the illegal DN from the credit refernce ageny files and serving notice of impending legal action against them claiming damages for the illegal DN and the distress it has caused.

 

Is there anything else I can do as I want shot of the whole thing.

 

Thanks for reading this.

 

Davidoff

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I suggest that you begin by sedning SARs to Egg and to Cabot. Make sure that you ask for everything they have on you in any form in relation to any matter.

When you have what appears to be a full file, you can then consider what action to take.

Egg not only have a duty under the CCA to let you have the agreement, they also have a duty not to abuse their dominant trasing position, to comply wiht the banking code and to act fairly.

If you have suffered losses as a result of their behaviour then you have a basis upon which to bring a claim.

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Thanks Cerberusalert, I know a SAR is only £10 but BankFodder suggested I send one to both Egg and Cabot so that would be £20.

 

I have never dealt with Cabot before this, so I may hold off on that one for now.

 

Cheers everyone.

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Guest Cartaphilus

This seems to tie into your other thread here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/241087-mbna-cc-egg-cc.html#post2728852

 

Oh, yes, it may be £20 but ... it could also be £20 well worth spent in the end. *like Smouk said* ;) If they become obstreperous - spend your £20 on sweeties etc and not on what you paid it for; it does happen, everyone here probably has experienced it or read about it on CAG (just joking about the sweeties), then simply come back here and someone who knows more will help I am sure.

 

Basically, you need all the ammo you can obtain when fighting against these people. Rest assured that they are usually very poor on keeping records, filing. So stay one step ahead of them. You have to, in order to survive these people.

 

The slimy devils, when I telephoned them about the DN (they would never put anything in writing), they told me not to worry as I had an agreed payment plan in operation.
Never phone these people, this is why they keep obtaining a record of your phone number then harass you again. I'd take what they told you about agreed payment plan with a very large pinch of salt, they won't put anything in writing that can be used later for example if anything got to court. This why they try to force people into phoning them. Edited by Cartaphilus
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  • 2 years later...

Hi All.

 

It is now some time since I was able to report here as I have had a bout of ill health.

 

However, up to date I have agreements with M&S and MBNA, although the M&S one is reviewed every 6 months and they have, because of a change of rules within M&S, also given me a DN.

 

My biggest problem now is with Cabot and Egg. I have attached the Egg CCA that Egg and Cabot have supplied me with. There are some problems with the CCA as I believe it is, but am unable to prove that it as yet, a fraudulent one. I believe the signature box has been added to the CCA as it has some marks just above and below the box where I believe they have tried to align the box on the page. Also on the same page there is a "2" just below the box which does not appear to have a reason to be there and the sentence at the bottom of the page is not completed anywhere. The date of the CCA is later than the statement they have given me and that has a start balance which is larger than zero and has no explanation of how it got there.

 

I have reiterated to Cabot that the alleged agreement was sold on whilst the alleged debt was in dispute but they have denied this is the case and are pursuing me for the debt. I have letters to support my facts both sent by me and received by me from Egg.

 

Would someone look at the CCA and statement to see if there is anything in law I can do to get rid of Cabot. I will try and upload the T&C's to see if anyone can also see something wrong with them.

 

Here is also the DN that was sent to me whilst I had been informed by Egglink3.gif over the phone that my offer had been accepted.

 

I first reported my problems in paying on 22/06/09. and asks them to freeze interestlink3.gif and charges for a period of 6 months, as advised by the CAB, as I had no job or money.

 

I never received there acceptance in writing although I did get it again verbally when I rang them up after I reviewed several statements on line had found i was being charged interest and charges. The facility to look at my statements on line was taken away from me so I was unable to gather evidence but later on I managed to get a copy sent to me by email which showed that i had been charged what they called Merchandise interest. I challenged them on the phone and was informed this was a mistake and would be taken off.

 

Unfortunately this didn't happen and later on someone said this was correct and that interest was being charged to my accountant a rate of 0.16% per month and a transfer charge of 0.16%per month

 

I received a letter on 07/08/09 stating that I hadn't sent the £1 charge required for the CCA but they had used the money I sent to pay off some of my debt rather than supply me with the CCA.

I sent a lette back on the 24/08/09 stating that I had and then on 3/09/09 I received the DN.

 

I hav all the docs sent to me by Egg and the letters I sent to them but will not bore you with them. many are in my opinion disinformation to try and confuse me. If you need anymore info please let me know.

 

Thanks in anticipataion.

Egg CCA .pdf

Egg Statement.pdf

Egg T&C .pdf

Egg DN .pdf

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Hi.

 

I'm not sure on this but perhaps someone would be able to confirm or otherwise.

 

As I understand it when a company buys a debt they do not actually buy the agreement and as such they would not be able to enforce any agreement you had with the original company. Surely under contract law only the original company would be owners of the contract as the debtor has not signed a new contract with the company that has bought he debt

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Hi.

 

I'm not sure on this but perhaps someone would be able to confirm or otherwise.

 

As I understand it when a company buys a debt they do not actually buy the agreement and as such they would not be able to enforce any agreement you had with the original company. Surely under contract law only the original company would be owners of the contract as the debtor has not signed a new contract with the company that has bought he debt

 

suggest you read a bit of contract law

 

ALL rights are transfered upon sale/sold

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Exactly all rights and all obligations are transferred so all CRA reporting etc must be accurate.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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Hi

 

I am just a layman so comments like the one above regarding I need to read up on contract law are not actually very helpful.

 

As a layman I will therefore ask the following:

 

Are the CCA and the debt both legally sold on when the original CCA had no clause in it that allowed the sale of the agreement or debt to anyone else?

 

My alleged Egg CCA, dated 2001, had no statement in it which allowed them to sell it on.

 

The info I was given re the sale of a debt to another agency was gleaned from another site mainly composed of legal people which is why I asked the question. The full quote from that site is shown below:

 

"Only the original creditor can issue a Default notice, as a DCA is not entitled to issue one due to them not being the original party to the agreement. I.e. once it is sold to a DCA (Assigned) they become the owners of the account, but the credit agreement ceases to exist, though the debt still does. So because the agreement between [the borrower] and the original creditor ceases to exist so does the provision to issue a Default Notice under section 81 of the consumer credit act which regulates said agreement. So there is no credit agreement regulated under the said act between [the borrower] and the DCA. Even if sold back to the creditor the creditor can not reinstate the agreement in order to re-issue a valid DN without your consent."

 

Your assistance to clear up any confusion I have would be appreciated.

 

Please note that I am only after the type of helpful advice I have received before on this site.

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Please note that I am only after the type of helpful advice I have received before on this site.

 

The statement is a little confusing...is this a suggestion that you have had anything different to being helpful ?

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Any ''permission'' to sell or assign the agreement/debt would be in the

sinature panel in most cases, and would state something like ''you agree

to your data being shared with credit rference agencies and may pass the

account to a a third party for collection, and sometime it'll will refer to

heir, successsors or assignes of the creditor.

The account/agreement most certainly does exist, and is legally sold

with the rights and obligations of the account.

 

There has in the past been much argument that when an account has

been defaulted and sold that the ''satisfied' marker on CRA files means

that the debt/contract no longer exists this is wishful thinking at best.

 

Such argument has been unsuccessful.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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Thanks dx100uk for tidying up my thread, much appreciated.

 

Is it possible for someone to look at the documents to see if anything can be used against Cabot. Undercover Elsa was very good when I posted to this site before my bout of ill health (I suffered heart problems probably brought on by the stress of dealing with three CC companies circling like wolves) last time but I know she is extremely busy.

 

I am pretty sure, but am unable to prove, that the date of the alleged CCA is not valid as I believe it should be earlier. The date on the first statement provided by Egg shows a date that precedes the alleged CCA by some time so am unable to use this as evidence. Should I make a follow up request to Egg for earlier statements to try and prove my belief and do I need to provide another fee if I do?

 

As the CCA is pre 2007 I believe that I can ask for an exact photocopy of the agreement - please advise (or post a link).

 

Thanks in anticipation.

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i have split many of your posts to the correct thread now

 

this one is your EGG debt thread.

 

quite honestly, your really need to drop the 'hope'

that a paperwork wriggle will get you out of paying this debt

 

if there IS a clear financial 'link' and statement of 'use'

 

are you REALLY hoping to stand up infront of a judge an basically say 'this debt is not mine'

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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