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Finance company claim- Won!!!! charges refunded!! BBC article


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Part 15

DEFENCE AND REPLY

 

Filing a defence

 

15.2 A defendant who wishes to defend all or part of a claim must file a defence

 

15.3 If a defendant fails to file a defence, the claimant may obtain default judgement if Part 12 allows it.

 

The Period For Filing A Defence

 

15.4 (1)- the general rule is that the period for filing a defence is -

(a) 14 days after the service of the particulars of claim; or

(b) if the defendant files an acknowledgement of service under part 10, 28 days after service of the particulars of claim

 

(2)-The general rule is subject to the following rules-

(a) rule 6.23 (which specifies how the period for filing a defence is calculated where the claim form is served out of the jurisdiction)

(b) rule 11 (which provides that , where the defendant makes an application disputing the court's jurisdiction , he need not file a defence before the hearing);

© rule 24.4(2) (which provides that, if the claimant applies for summary judgement before the defendant has filed a defence, the defendant need not file a defence before the summary judgement hearing); and

(d) rule 6.16(4) ( which requires the court to specify the period for responding to the particulars of claim when it makes an order under that rule).

 

Agreement extending the period for filing a defence

 

15.5(1) The defendant and the claimant may agree that the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4 shall be extended by up to 28 DAYS.

(2) Where the defendant and the claimant agree to extend the period for filing a defence, the defendant must notify the court in writing.

 

Service of copy of defence.

 

15.6 A copy of the defence must be served on every other party.

(Part 16 sets out what a defence must contain).

 

I think in your case Homer that the general rule would apply that is 14 days after you have served your POC's.If they cannot file a defence within that 14 days, provided they know they can defend but need more time in order to secure documentation from elsewhere for example,then they must file an acknowledgement of service no later than 14 days after receiving your POC.They then have a further 14 days to file and serve a defence or 28 days to file and serve a defence after receiving your POC's as long as they also acknowledged your service 14 days after receiving your POC.

 

If they have not filed a defence no later than 14 days after having received your POC's AND ALSO have NOT acknowledged your service within that same 14 days time period then you could go for judgement by default in accordance with Part 12...

 

 

rgds

 

shall be watching

 

m2ae

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Upon checking Royal Mails website based Track and Trace service it seems that they haven't delivered my amended POC to the Defendants yet - they've only had 8 days bless them:mad:

 

Track & Trace

Results Itemxx1234564321GB was posted at xx my street xx1 xxG on 11/03/10 and is being progressed through our network for delivery. :mad:

 

 

 

I've sent another copy today by Special Delivery but am wondering about the Certificate of Service?

 

I can prove I sent the amended POC by recorded delivery, which should have been deemed served by 15 March 2010. But it may not have been. I've resent it by Special Delivery which should be received by 22 March 2010.

 

I need to file Certificate of Service within 7 days of service of docs.

 

If I can get proof of delivery of SD on Monday, can I still file Cert of Serv on Monday at Court?

 

This is turning into a bit of a mess as I still haven't had the Court Order of 1 March 2010 yet. The Defendants probably haven't received it either.

 

Anyone got any advice please?

 

HJS

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Send another one by first class recorded and get the certificate of service straightaway in respect of this new copy.

 

There is no requirement on the certificate of service to ascertain that delivery actually occurred.

 

When you find that the special delivery one has been delivered then do a certificate of service for that too.

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Track & Trace Results Itemxx1234564321GB was posted at xx my street xx1 xxG on 11/03/10 and is being progressed through our network for delivery. :mad:

 

HJS

HJS. Beware of this. I've had issues with this before. Royal Mail may well have delivered your item but somehow, their Track and Trace system has not been properly updated. You may want to complain to them about that and maybe get a refund as the tracking and delivery confirmation feature is part of what you pay for when using recorded or Special Delivery. :(

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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Upon checking Royal Mails website based Track and Trace service it seems that they haven't delivered my amended POC to the Defendants yet - they've only had 8 days bless them:mad:

 

Track & Trace

Results Itemxx1234564321GB was posted at xx my street xx1 xxG on 11/03/10 and is being progressed through our network for delivery. :mad:

 

 

 

I've sent another copy today by Special Delivery but am wondering about the Certificate of Service?

 

I can prove I sent the amended POC by recorded delivery, which should have been deemed served by 15 March 2010. But it may not have been. I've resent it by Special Delivery which should be received by 22 March 2010.

 

I need to file Certificate of Service within 7 days of service of docs.

 

If I can get proof of delivery of SD on Monday, can I still file Cert of Serv on Monday at Court?

 

This is turning into a bit of a mess as I still haven't had the Court Order of 1 March 2010 yet. The Defendants probably haven't received it either.

 

Anyone got any advice please?

 

HJS

 

Have you received the Court order of 1st March yet ? If not, ask the clerk if you can pop in and collect a copy.

 

As for the Royal Mail... check with them on the phone that this has or not been delivered. If they say not then complete a claim form for the SD postage to be refunded to you. If they havent delivered/obtained a signature then they are obliged to refund the cost of mailing. Both SD and RD postage is touted by the Royal Mail for mailing of legal documents. But so many times they fail to get a signature for one reason or another.

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1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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HJS. Beware of this. I've had issues with this before. Royal Mail may well have delivered your item but somehow, their Track and Trace system has not been properly updated. You may want to complain to them about that and maybe get a refund as the tracking and delivery confirmation feature is part of what you pay for when using recorded or Special Delivery. :(

 

I was wondering whether maybe it had been delivered. Track and Trace still says the same thing. It doesn't take this long to deliver First Class Recorded Delivery surely.:evil:

 

The Special Delivery copy I sent on Friday has been delivered and signed for this morning.

 

 

Have you received the Court order of 1st March yet ? If not, ask the clerk if you can pop in and collect a copy.

 

As for the Royal Mail... check with them on the phone that this has or not been delivered. If they say not then complete a claim form for the SD postage to be refunded to you. If they havent delivered/obtained a signature then they are obliged to refund the cost of mailing. Both SD and RD postage is touted by the Royal Mail for mailing of legal documents. But so many times they fail to get a signature for one reason or another.

 

 

Went to Court today and the Order of 1st March was typed up on Friday, should have been sent out. I already know what the Order states because the DJ read aloud as he was writing it. I've been more interested in knowing when the Defendants will receive it.

 

I filed Cert of Service for the copy I sent 11/03/2010 deemed served 15/03/2010. I also filed Cert of Service for the Special Delivery copy I sent 19/03/2010 and deemed served ( and was received ) today.

 

So it seems that the Defendants first knowledge of their strikeout order being overturned will be my amended POC. They would have known about my application, but as they didn't see fit to attend or offer any representation to the hearing, they probably thought my application would be refused.

 

So I think they still have to submit their amended defence by 29 March 2010. The guy who accepted my Certs of Service at the Court said the Court Order timelines will still be binding on the Defendants. I hope that is correct.

 

The Royal Mail issue is a pain, but I will argue this and get some refund or compensation. I'm thinking of charging them for the costs of Special Delivery, as they were unable to prove delivery by the the original Recorded Delivery I had already paid for. Can I charge them for my time in producing another copy and my time spent going to post it again, by Special Delivery?

 

The Royal Mail website states that an item isn't lost until after 15 days, they think this is an acceptable timescale for 1st Class post.:eek:

 

Anyway I do hope that the Defendants will be busy amending their defence for filing by 29 March. Lets see what happens.;)

 

HJS

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, after Royal Mails failure to deliver by Recorded Delivery I decided to accept the second copy of amended POC's sent Special Delivery as the served copy for Court purposes. (Even though I am sure they will have received the first copy.) This has given the Defendants 23 days or a guaranteed 15 days to submit a defence or acknowledge service of my amended POC.

 

I entered the Court offices at opening time this morning and asked if a defence or acknowledgement had been filed. Nothing had been filed, and I asked the Court staff if they could check if any faxes had been received from the defendants. Again nothing had been received.

 

I produced my completed N225 form asking for judgment plus 8% statutory interest. (I had considered using N227 and asking for restitutional damages, but this claim is quite small and was started in Dec 2007. I just want it finished now.)

 

So I guess I just sit and wait now. I think the Defendants would have a damn cheek to try and set aside any judgment now, after ignoring my set aside application to their strikeout request, and ignoring the court order to submit their amended defence.

 

Hopefully if they try any funny business the District Judge's patience will be waring thin with them.

 

So I'm about a week over schedule (Thanks Royal Mail :rolleyes:) but it seems to be going according to plan. Not sure how long it takes for the judgment.

 

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

HJS

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  • 1 month later...

Well, long time no post;)

 

I WON MY CLAIM, BUT IT WAS A LONG BL#*DY SLOG.

 

Close Premium Finance are now just over £500 lighter in their bank balance. I wonder how much time amd money they spent @rsing around pretending to defend this claim though.

 

There is good reason for this, I'll try and explain.;)

 

On 7th April 2010 I filed my request for Judgment, as I had been told there was no defence or correspondence (including faxes) from the Defendant.

 

By the 19th April 2010 I was getting increasingly concerned that my Judgment was not forthcoming. I enquired with the Court and was told that a letter had been received from the Defendants on 12th April and the file and letter was with the District Judge.

 

Naturally I was concerned that the Defendants letter was before the DJ but my N255 request was not. I had filed my N255 on the 7th April.:-x

 

It transpired that the delay in the Court system meant that the Defendants had faxed a letter to the Court on 29th March 2010, but it was not added to the Courts computer system until 12th April 2010.:-o

 

My N255 request for Judgment was still waiting to go before the DJ. That didn't seem at all fair to me. Were the Defendants receiving priveledged access to the Courts, and sending private correspondence that I was not privvy to? Where were my copies of this correspondence?

 

After asking these questions I received a phone call from the Courts informing me that my N255 request had been sent up to the DJ.;)

 

On 20th April I collected a copy of the Defendants letter from the Courts. It was a fax sent on 29th March that basically re-itterated their original [email protected] defence that they could charge what they liked, it was in the T&C's and if I'd been a good Homer and had money in my Bank Account, I wouldn't have been charged their fees. Absolutely no justification that their charges were fair, or breakdown of actual costs incurred by them.:rolleyes:

 

 

I was growing increasingly frustrated.:-x

 

HJS

Edited by HomerJSimpson
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27th April 2010 I received an order from the Court dated 20th April 2010 awarding me Judgment. The Order was that Close Premium Finance pay me the sum of £402.48 forthwith.:D

 

Unfortunately I heard nothing from Close Premium Finance and so I waited a full week and an additional day for the Bank Holiday. I visited the Court on 5th May 2010 and asked if any payments or other correspondence had been received from the Defendants, Close Premium Finance.;)

 

It turned out that the Defendants had sent another letter by fax to the Court on 30th April 2010. Were they sending private correspondence again? I demanded a copy of this secretive letter. This letter was very interesting indeed.;)

 

HJS

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It turned out that the Defendants had sent another letter by fax to the Court on 30th April 2010. Were they sending private correspondence again? I demanded a copy of this secretive letter. This letter was very interesting indeed.;)

 

HJS

 

And............... :)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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30 April 2010

 

We have today received details of a judgment against Close Premium Finance in respect of the above claim.

 

We have been advised by your office that the reason for the judgment was that there was no amended defence in the file passed to the District Judge for consideration.

 

We wish to make a request to have this judgment set aside as well as register a formal complaint concerning the conduct of XXXXXXX County Court in relation to this claim.

 

XXXXXXXXX County Court was in receipt of our amended defence by the required date of 29th March 2009 (I think he's got a time machine) and your posession of this defence document was confirmed over in a call with Close Premium Finance at 11.25am on 12th April 2010. The failure by your office to include this document in the file to be passed to the District Judge is the sole reason that judgment has been given against Close Premium Finance.

 

I enclose a further copy of the defence document that was provided, and ask that arrangements be made immediately for the judgment to be set aside so that a decision can be made on all the appropriate documentation.

 

We also ask that you undertake a thorough investigation as to how a document so vital to the defence was misplaced and what failings allowed this to occur. In addition to the judgment being set aside we require a formal apology regarding the conduct of XXXXXXX County Court over this claim. Given previous failings, I require confirmation that this document has been received together with confirmation of when you will respond by return.

 

Should you have any queries regarding any aspect of this communication, please contact me on xxx xxx xxxxx

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

Compliance Officer

Close Premium Finance

 

 

 

:D

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I really wanted to include the poor guy's name, but I have a feeling he might be looking for a new job.:D

 

Anybody ever sent a letter like that to a County Court?

 

I had to wonder what the District Judge would make of it.;)

 

 

HJS

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These charges have been refunded on the basis outlined in this article:- The Consumer Forums - Not all charges are Bank Charges - so claim them back

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I had to wonder what the District Judge would make of it.;)

 

HJS

Well done for getting this far HJS.

 

It seems to me the main thing is that there is absolutely nothing new in their defence and they do not attempt to address the concerns and requests for substantiation of costs and charges that you raised. Do you agree?

 

More importantly, what do YOU make of their latest letter?

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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Well done Mike!!!!!

 

Don't think the picture of you on the bbc news website doe you justice though lol.

 

It's about time the little guy wins for a change and hopefully there will be plenty more little guys winning after this outcome.

 

Congrats...

 

Andy

Andy...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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We will disclose the amended POC in the next 2 or 3 weeks.

 

Hi BankFodder

 

I may have missed it but has the Amended POC for Bank Charges been issued yet? Is there in fact one for bank charges (new line of argument) and another template for non-banks?

 

I would imagine that the template for non-banks would still have some of the old arguments as well as possibly include some of the new arguments to make it even stronger.

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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I think that HJS will be putting it up shortly

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Well done for getting this far HJS.

 

It seems to me the main thing is that there is absolutely nothing new in their defence and they do not attempt to address the concerns and requests for substantiation of costs and charges that you raised. Do you agree?

 

More importantly, what do YOU make of their latest letter?

 

Cheers bustthematrix, their defence was absolute [email protected], same as before, absolutely agreed.:D

 

I thought their letter was rather disrespectfull to send to a County Court. I think that the DJ may not have been amused by it.;)

 

So after reflection and advice from BF, I returned to the Court and applied for a warrant of execution, I still had a valid Judgment, and so I applied via N323 and paid £100 fee to send in the bailiffs.:D

 

I now just had to wait for the Request to be granted.

 

HJS

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13th May 2010 I returned to the Court office to hand in an urgent letter to the Court for attention of the DJ explaining that I had waited a full week and an extra day for the Bank Holiday, but had heard nothing from Close Premium Finance. I explained that I had requested a Warrant of Execution on 5th May but had been told by the Court office that the warrant was frozen, pending the DJ's decision about the informal letter Close Premium Finance had faxed to the Court.

 

My letter was very respectfully pointing out that I thought it extremely unfair that the DJ could make a decision on setting aside my still valid Judgment, based solely on the very disrespectfull letter from the Defendants.

 

I was informed that my Warrant had been granted, but as I had taken the time to compose the letter, again with much assistance from CAG,;), I submitted the letter anyway.

 

HJS

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19th May 2010 I received a letter from the Court. My Warrant was granted and transferred to Kingston - Upon - Thames Court for the bailiffs to execute. Pity it wasn't a literal execution.:cool:

 

I tried to contact the bailiffs on numerous occasions, but had no success. :?

 

Wednesday 26th May 2010 I finally spoke to the bailiff, a very nice lady bailiff who told me a cheque arrived from Close Premium Finance on the previous day.:D

 

She seemed surprised because she had spoken to Close and they told her they would not be paying as they were applying to have the Judgment set aside. But they paid up.:?

 

I shall expect my cheque once Close Premium Finance's cheque to the Court has cleared. They then issue me a Court cheque which won't bounce.:D This should be sent next Wednesday.:D

 

HJS

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Yesterday, 27th May 2010, I received a response from the Court to my letter I delivered 13th May 2010 asking for the DJ to not make his decision on setting aside my Judgment based on the Defendants letter alone.

 

The DJ said I should see a copy of the letter the Court had sent to Close Premium Finance on 12th May 2010. This letter was in response to Close's very disrespectfull complaint about the conduct of the claim, and the Courts conduct.

 

The letter stated...........

 

In response to your letter dated 30.4.10 in respect of this case. Your letter was placed before District Judge XXXX who has stated that the Defendant's letter dated 29.3.10 cannot be deemed to be an amended defence. The Defendant must apply on notice to set aside judgment.

 

 

 

If you have read the BBC article and seen the comments by Close Premium Finance............

 

That will be the administrative error by the Court then.;)

 

HJS

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