Could this potentially be unfair dismissal?

[calamityjane]

I posted a while back about work problems.

 

Basically I'm a director in my fathers business with a 10% shareholding and my brother who also works there has 10% too. My father holds the remaining 80%. My sister who doesn't work in the family business comes in once or twice a week to advise on the finances - she works full time elsewhere as an accountant. My sisters boyfriend also works in the company.

 

I don't get along with my sister or my Dad. It worsened after my Mum died a year ago. She also worked in the family business but kept my Dad off my back.

 

They disciplined me in October because I used my company car to travel to a second job (p/t bar work). They called it gross misconduct and I got a final warning (my first ever disciplinary/warning) and their decision was upheld on appeal. My father chaired the disciplinary and the appeal!

 

I have kept my nose clean (I thought) since then. My father threatened me with redundancy before Christmas but I threatened him with court and he backed down. My sister and my husband had a heated phone conversation after this and she told him that they hated me and were trying to make me leave. I have told my Dad I'll leave if/when I can find another job but there's not a lot out there at the moment.

 

Yesterday I was given 2 letters inviting me to another 2 disciplinary hearings.

 

One is for competence - they have kept a list of every minor mistake I have made at work for the past 6 months. The list includes stacking things differently to them, putting invoices in the wrong tray etc.

 

The second hearing is because a friend came in, I did a job for him and paid for it myself because I owed him a favour. I paid the full price - we have a price list at the till and I followed that but apparently I should have asked my sisters boyfriend to confirm the price. Bear in mind I have worked there for 20 + years and her boyfriend has been there for 2 years. He obviously knows whats happening - he must be the one telling my sister when I make "mistakes". Over the past year I have had any responsibility taken from me. I am not allowed access to computers, filing cabinets, safe, accounts etc. anymore. The boyfriend constantly makes sly remarks to me and puts me down as does my father and sister. If I'm told one more time everyone hates me I'll begin to believe it -lol.

 

I think they're going to sack me this time. My sister is chairing the disciplinary hearing this time despite the fact she's not employed by the company - my father has announced he's made her a manager and everything she does is done with his blessing.

 

I am going to submit a grievance on Monday about bullying by my father, sister and her boyfriend despite the fact it's my father as managing director who will deal with it.

 

If I get sacked do you think I'll have a case for unfair dismissal? I am the only person the company has ever disciplined despite other people making mistakes.

 

I'm panicking a bit because my wage is needed to pay my mortgage etc. I have 2 children who my Dad sees regularly - he collects them from my house and drops them off again without getting out of his car. My Dad knows we rely on my wage. I don't understand why he's potentially risking the roof over his only grandchildrens heads.

 

Sorry for the long post!

Edited February 12, 2010 by calamityjane

[elpulpo]

This is very unusual, given that it's a family business and that you're a stakeholder.

I'd suggest you seek to speak to a solicitor.

[calamityjane]

I spoke to a solicitor yesterday and he says it sounds like they're trying to get to get rid of me. I don't know if this will be classed as unfair dismissal which at least would hopefully award me some money to keep me going for a while.

 

Basically this is a family feud.

 

I was told in writing in October that the title of director is separate from my employee status.

 

I'm just incredibly worried about my potential lack of earnings. Last night I was awake most of the night trying to figure out how we can manage without my salary if they do sack me in 2 weeks time which is when the "impartial" hearing is.

 

I think because I'm already on a final warning they can get me out the business fairly easily. My sister thinks she's very clever - because she got a degree in accountancy while my brother and I entered the family firm. She seems to be following the ACAS guidelines but skewed in her favour! She honestly thinks everything is being done by the book. She seems to forget the "conversation" her and my husband had in December where she said they were trying to get rid of me. I thought it was said in anger but she must have meant it.

Edited February 6, 2010 by calamityjane

[IdaInFife]

link to previous thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/employment-problems/229518-major-problems-work-struggling.html

[calamityjane]

I handed a letter in today disputing all allegations. I suppose it won't do any good but I feel I need to do something. The lawyer I spoke to was lovely on the phone but charges £180 an hour if I want to use him - money I just don't have.

 

I'm only allowed to take a colleague or a union rep in with me but I'm not in a union and my colleagues are obviously looking out for their own jobs and some are influenced by my father so probably don't want to get involved.

 

I feel so low - I've felt physically sick all day and have hardly slept since I got the letters. I am the main wage earner and feel I'm letting my husband and children down - especially as I thought I was in a relatively secure job for life.

 

All I can do is sit it out and see what happens..........................

[merlin100]

Tape the meeting - record it.

You dont have to tell them because it involves you directly. Say as little as possible. Reasonably ask them to provide proof of your "inadequacies" - if they are as arrogant as you say, you will be surprised at how a challenge like this can wind them up, then hope for the mistakes they can make.

Speak slowly and deliberately and show that you are not intimidated by their "superiority", but admit to nothing.

Do you see where this is going? Become the questioner, but innocently.

Indirectly challenge their authority by placing the onus right on their shoulders.

And keep the tape running.

They dont sound too clever so you should get a result!

Best of luck.

[calamityjane]

The hearing has been postponed. I put a grievance in for bullying by my sister and the fact she told my husband the were trying to make me leave. I got a letter today saying its postponed until the grievance is dealt with.

 

My brother made 2 mistakes at work today. I've kept a note of them too, if they discipline me for mistakes then surely they've got to do the same to others making mistakes.

 

Is this a good sign? How can she discipline me if she's made it clear she wants me out the business?

[Rams75]

I'm only allowed to take a colleague or a union rep in with me but I'm not in a union and my colleagues are obviously looking out for their own jobs and some are influenced by my father so probably don't want to get involved.

 

Can they actually tell you who you can bring to the meeting?

[cynic09]

I'm only allowed to take a colleague or a union rep in with me but I'm not in a union and my colleagues are obviously looking out for their own jobs and some are influenced by my father so probably don't want to get involved.

 

Can they actually tell you who you can bring to the meeting?

 

Work colleague or union rep is the legal minimum, your contract may allow for more.

There was a case in the high court last year that caused ACAS to change its guidelines. Unsafe under the human rights act if I recall correctly

[calamityjane]

Right - I now have a letter about my grievance.

It says my brother is to chair the grievance hearing although he's not been asked/told yet. The office manager is to hold the investigation into my allegations - the letter says I have to prove my claim of bullying with dates/times etc. If the grievance is found to be malicious it will be classed as misconduct and I will be disciplined for that which could result in my dismissal. Once this grievance hearing has been held, depending on the outcome, my disciplinary hearing will be rescheduled where I could be dismissed.

I feel I'm banging my head against a brick wall. All I want is an impartial hearing which I don't think I'm going to get. I may sound paranoid but everyone involved in this grievance (investigator, chairperson, witnesses) are employed by my dad. He is on record as saying he's given my sister executive powers and whatever she says goes basically. No-one is wanting to cross her in case she turns on them next so how can any of this be impartial.

I don't know what to do now. I feel like jacking it in and telling them where to shove their job but financially that would be suicide. Oh to be so hated!

[cynic09]

I'd suggest you keep that letter and have a read of the ACAS guidelines.

Don't be tempted to jack it in, let them carry out thier idea of a hearing.

you WILL get your impartial hearing at the subsequent tribunal.

I think they will find thier opinions somewhat at odds with thier responsibilties in law.

Allegations of bullying have to be investigated by the employer for one thing, not proved by the bullied.

As to classing raising a grievance as misconduct. Good luck to them with that one, sounds potentially very expensive to me

[calamityjane]

It's only if they decide it's malicious I could be disciplined.

 

Today I had a meeting with the office manager to investigate my claims with only 30 minutes notice!

 

Apparently my brother (who is going to chair the grievance hearing) told her that what happened out of work ie.the phone call between my sister and husband are not relevant to the bullying claim and won't be considered!! The whole point of the grievance is based on the call. Surely bullying/harassment can happen anywhere. How can my sister discipline me when she's made it clear she wants me out the business. I think my sister has told my brother to say this but may be wrong.

 

The office manager has also been told by my sister to get dates/times of the incidents. I told her that as it's persistant and ongoing I don't have specific dates.

 

I wonder what Monday will bring.......................................

[K3NNY]

1, charge the solicitors fees to the business.......

2, hire an independent accountant to go through the books to check that your Sister and Husband are not trying to fleece the company.

3, keep a diary from now on in.

4, do you pay tax on the company car for personal use your p11d from the inland revenue will let you know. if you do the final written warning recieved will not only be invalid but further proof to the bullying and harrassment.

5, your 10% holding is what is keeping her from receiving any holding if your father gives her any holding he is in danger of losing his majority.

6, contact your sisters employer and advise them of her actions. both with coming in once or twice a week is she being paid a fee

and passing this fee to her employer or freelancing in company time? and pocketing the tax free cash with creative accounting.......obviously dont use blackmail if this is the case just use the situation to your advantage, accountants have a strict ethical code to abide to and the inland revenue..

 

Im the suspicious type and get the impression your sister is trying to lay claim to the business once your father retires........even though you have served the family business for 20 years.

OR WORST CASE SCENARIO HAS SOMETHING TO HIDE............................

a criminal always returns to the scene of the crime and once or twice a week does seem excessive to be auditing things,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

As a stakeholder you must have access to the audits carried out by your sister as the company accountant.

TURN THE TABLES ON HER IF YOU FIND ANYTHING..............................

[teaboy2]

1, charge the solicitors fees to the business.......

2, hire an independent accountant to go through the books to check that your Sister and Husband are not trying to fleece the company.

3, keep a diary from now on in.

4, do you pay tax on the company car for personal use your p11d from the inland revenue will let you know. if you do the final written warning recieved will not only be invalid but further proof to the bullying and harrassment.

5, your 10% holding is what is keeping her from receiving any holding if your father gives her any holding he is in danger of losing his majority.

6, contact your sisters employer and advise them of her actions. both with coming in once or twice a week is she being paid a fee

and passing this fee to her employer or freelancing in company time? and pocketing the tax free cash with creative accounting.......obviously dont use blackmail if this is the case just use the situation to your advantage, accountants have a strict ethical code to abide to and the inland revenue..

 

Im the suspicious type and get the impression your sister is trying to lay claim to the business once your father retires........even though you have served the family business for 20 years.

OR WORST CASE SCENARIO HAS SOMETHING TO HIDE............................

a criminal always returns to the scene of the crime and once or twice a week does seem excessive to be auditing things,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

As a stakeholder you must have access to the audits carried out by your sister as the company accountant.

TURN THE TABLES ON HER IF YOU FIND ANYTHING..............................

 

Totally agree with what is said above.

 

Also being an owner of my own company. i also have to say, i am deeply supsicious of your sisters actions of coming in once or twice aweek to do accounting. it sounds like you business is based around a shop or garage or similar set up am i right? if so i can tell you now the amount of invoices, credit notes etc and everything else that creates more work for the accountant will be no where near the amount i have each month. It only takes me 1 day (long long day as in early start to late finish) or 2 days at most each month, to do the accounts for my business. although i do use computer based accounting software microsoft office (uk version), which does half the time it takes to do the accounting. but regardless of weather your company uses such software or does it by books, it still will not take more then say 2 days a month or a 3-4 hours aweek if you are doing it by books.