Who Must Pay Council Tax?!

[hallowitch]

it wouldn't exempt me from Council Tax, or would it?

 

i would think it should

[pugilist]

it wouldn't exempt me from Council Tax, or would it?

 

i would think it should

would it exempt me from CT if I prove that it is HMO or in any case?

[Emma1973]

Information for owners, managing agents and housing associations

 

 

Take a look at the link, if it is a HMO (link also defines HMO) then the LL is liable, not the tenants.

[hallowitch]

would it exempt me from CT if I prove that it is HMO or in any case?

yes

but the council will be looking for there money from someone if there is more than one person living there it gives them more people to chase

 

councils don't give up and they will pursue for years to get the money

in years to come they could get an attachment of earnings order place a charge on your house (if you by one) they may even not accept you student status as you should have applied for a rebate at the time

 

I would personally get your landlord to sort it out asap its his mess and under no circumstances allow him to give your name as the the only tenant

Edited January 29, 2010 by hallowitch

[pugilist]

would it exempt me from CT if I prove that it is HMO or in any case?

no

but the council will be looking for there money from someone if there is more than one person living there it gives them more people to chase

 

councils don't give up and they will pursue for years to get the money

in years to come they could get an attachment of earnings order place a charge on your house (if you by one) they may even not accept you student status as you should have applied for a rebate at the time

 

I would personally get your landlord to sort it out asap its his mess and under no circumstances allow him to give your name as the the only tenant

But, as for now, he isn't going to give my name as the only tanant. He is going to give the name of the guy who lived here before me!

The problem is that this guy still lives in London and definetely will tell the council that it is me who lived there after him, he knows my full name.

[pugilist]

Hallowitch,

 

I am very gratefull to you for your honest and helpful advice.

 

By the way, there is a detail I'd like you to pay an attention to and comment on it.

 

In december 2009 my landlord without letting me know gave the management of this property to an estate agency.

 

So, on 17/12/2009 they gave me this letter:

 

 

plus they wanted me to sign an agreement with them(as they represent my landlord). I told them that i'll sign the agreement only after I study it and after they edit it taking into consideration all my amendements. I gave them the list of amendements, they still didn't bring me edited copy but ask me to pay into their account.

This month's rent I paid into the landlord's account as usual, thought they asked me to do so into their account. And now , on the 1st of february i'll have to pay my rent, but not sure into whos account: into the landlord's or into the agency's. The landlord says it is ok if I pay into the agency's account because he pays them money to manage his property.

 

But I think I shouldn't do so as it would be one more evidence that I accepted that I am his only tenant. What do you think should I do?

 

By the way, would it make sense to write a collective letter, on behalf of all the tenants of the property that we are not going to deal with that agency?

 

Please read the last sentence of the letter. it says they will charge me for late payment, though in the first sentence they said "everything will stay the same". We've never agreed on any charges for late payement, that means that the agency introduces a new term in our oral agreament...

 

What would you do if you were me?

[hallowitch]

Information for owners, managing agents and housing associations

would it exempt me from CT if I prove that it is HMO or in any case?

no that no should be yes

 

 

Take a look at the link, if it is a HMO (link also defines HMO) then the LL is liable, not the tenants.

 

Ive had a read of the info in this link please don't sign anything unless it confirms that you live in a HMO if you sign anything saying you are the only tenant then you will be liable for the council tax water bill etc

have the other tenants had a tenancy agreement to sign

Edited January 29, 2010 by hallowitch

[pugilist]

Ive had a read of the info in this link please don't sign anything unless it confirms that you live in a HMO if you sign anything saying you are the only tenant then you will be liable for the council tax water bill etc

have the other tenants had a tenancy agreement to sign

Thank you.

I knew it - the property we rent can be classed the property as a house in multiple occupation.

So what's are my first steps then? What should I do: go to the council or wait untill the council send me a bill on my name?

 

 

 

[pugilist]

And whose account I'd better pay the next month's rent: the agency's or the landlord's?

[pugilist]

Information for owners, managing agents and housing associations

 

 

Take a look at the link, if it is a HMO (link also defines HMO) then the LL is liable, not the tenants.

it really looks like it is HMO.

 

the question is how to prove it and when and where; what steps is better for me to do first

[pugilist]

By the way, 2 guys living in the other room are brothers. So, it means that they are related to ech other but not related to me.

Can it be classified then as a HMO?

[pugilist]

Thank you once againe for your advice.

 

I'd like to know what do you think if I give the agency the following reply to their letter( see post #31).

 

 

Dear XXX estates staff,

 

As you already know I could have read your letter much later than it is dated.That's why I'm replying respectively later.

 

Please take into consideration that I never agred with the Landlord that I was going to be the only tenant of his property. That's why I am surprised that your letter came only on my name. There are several unrelated persons living in the property. Everyone has separate oral agreement with the Landlord.The fact is that each tenancy has been agreed separately between Landlord & respective Tenant and no new Tenancy Agreement has been signed with all tenants each time household composition has changed. As for me, I’ve always been renting a room and not the whole flat as it’s has always been HMO.

I want to stress the fact that I have recently been collecting rent from other tenants & passing it on to Landlord, but only on an informal basis to help him out, not because I had agreed to take on responsibility for the whole tenancy.

 

If you want me to start dealing with you and if you want me to sign an agreement with you, you should accept all my amendements to thaat variant of agreement that you tried to make me sign. I hope you understand that I don't want you to change the terms on which I've been living at this property.

 

The most important of them is : one of the clauses should state that the Landlord will pay the council tax charges and water rates. This was part of the terms on wich I moved in to rent a room. Otherwise I wouldn't ever moved.

 

And of course, as u already know I've never agreed with the Landlord to the late payment charges. So, why did you mention them in your letter? It is very odd and looks like you are trying to impose changes on the terms of renting. As we(me and the rest of the tenants) already mentioned in the list of amendements, any charge for late payment will be accepted by us only if a clause stating a grace period(14 days minimum) will be mentioned.

 

 

Sincerely yours,

 

 

Mr Tenant

 

Mistakes correction wellcome

[hallowitch]

you will have to tidy it up every time i try it just wont do as its told

 

 

Please accept my apologies for the late reply to you letter asking me to sign a tenancy agreement with your company for the property at (Address)

i felt that it was necessary to take advice regarding this matter

I am not the only tenant of property (address). I am therefore rather surprised that your Tenancy agreement came in my name.only There are several people living in this property. none are related to me

Each tenant has separate oral agreement with the Landlord.

and no Tenancy Agreements have ever been in writing regardless of change of tenants

I only rent one room sharing the rest of the amenities with two other tenants

I want to stress that I have recently been collecting rent from other tenants & passing it on to the Landlord, on an informal basis at the landlords request to help him out , I have never agreed to take responsibility for the whole property .

I will now not be continuing to do this therefore Mr (landlord)or yourselves will have to make other arrangement for the collection of rent from other tenants

 

Any tenancy agreement signed by myself must reflect the fact that this is a HMO and each tenant is responsible for there own rent

Therefore i will not be signing any tenancy agreement sent to me by your office unless it confirms this

 

Please also be advised that i will not sign any tenancy agreement that holds me fully responsible for council tax water rates and full rent or states that there will be a charge for late payment of rent as i am not the only tenant I will not be held responsible for the other tenants late payments of rent

 

As there is no tenancy agreement in place with your company and myself i will be paying the landlord the rent until this matter is concluded to my satisfaction

 

please send written acknowledgement of this letter and your intentions regarding the matters raised within 14 day of this recorded delivery letter

[hallowitch]

don't sign this letter print your name

 

keep copy's of everything (give them to your mum and ask her to keep them in a safe place as you may need them in years to come )

tell your landlord that he will have to make other arrangement's to collect the rent from the other tenants

If you have an e-mail addy for the landlord use it as you may need a paper trail to prove to the council that you were not responsible for the council tax

and look for somewhere else to live

[pugilist]

Thank you hallowitch!

 

I omited the sentence about it being an HMO as it will confuse them. HMOs can be rented jointly and I have been advised not to tell them at this point that it's an HMO anyway.

 

Here's the new edition of my letter:

 

 

 

Dear Mr XXX,

 

I refer to your letter of 17/12/2009 which I received only on 27/01/2010 (or on 26th... As I am not sure of exact date, may be I'd better use jta's variant "In answer to your letter dated 17/12/2009" ?).

 

Please take into consideration that I never agreed with the Landlord of rental property address (1 bubble gum road, ilford ig3 7hp) that I was going to be the only tenant of his property. It has never been agreed that I would be the sole tenant of this property. That's why I am surprised that your letter was addressed only to me. There are several unrelated persons living in the property. Everyone has separate oral AST agreements with the Landlord.The fact is that each tenancy has been agreed separately between Landlord & respective Tenant and no new Tenancy Agreement has been signed with all tenants each time the household composition has changed. As for me, I’ve always been renting a room and not the whole flat . Each tenant has a separate oral agreement with the landlord. I rent only one room within this property

 

I want to stress the fact that I have recently been collecting rent from other tenants & passing it on to Landlord, but only on an informal basis to help him out, not because I had agreed to take on responsibility for the whole tenancy.

Although I have been collecting the rents for the landlord recently, this has been on an informal basis and should not be taken to mean that I am agreeing to any changes in my status.

 

If you want me to start dealing with you and if you want me to sign an agreement with you, you should accept all my amendments to the version of the tenancy agreement that you tried to make me sign. I hope you understand that I don't want you to change the terms on which I've been living at this property.

 

The new agreement you have sent to me is unacceptable for the following reasons.

 

1. Unacceptability of the late payment charges

2. It doesn’t say anything about protection of my deposit

3. It doesn’t say that the LL will pay the CT and water charges.

 

 

The most important of them is : one of the clauses should state that the Landlord will pay the council tax charges and water rates. This was part of the terms under which I accepted the tenancy and moved in to rent a room. As I am sure you must be aware, the LL is not allowed unilaterally to change this condition.

I particularly draw your attention to the point about the Council Tax and Water rates being included in the rental figures. This was one of the reasons I took this tenancy in the first place, withut this I would never have been able to afford it.

 

And of course, as you already know, I've never agreed with the Landlord to the late payment charges. So, why did you mention them in your letter? It is very odd and looks like you are trying restrospectively to impose changes on the terms of renting. As we (the rest of the tenants and I) already mentioned in the list of amendements, any charge for late payment will be accepted by us only if a clause stating a grace period (14 days minimum) is included.

 

As there is no tenancy agreement in place with your company and myself I will be paying the landlord the rent until this matter is concluded to my satisfaction.

 

Please send written acknowledgement of this letter and your intentions regarding the matters raised within 14 day of this recorded delivery letter.

 

Sincerely yours,

 

 

Mr Tenant

[pugilist]

I have still some uncleared questions:

 

1. Would the contents of this letter be to my advantage in court or would not?

 

2. Can this property be classified as a HMO or not if two other persons are brothers?

 

3. Should I sign the letter or is it better to just print my name, and why?