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skywalker1010

Barclays Claimform on A personal guarantee business overdraft ***SET A SIDE***

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He is sending me something to fill in on my outgoings, what I am doing for money etc. He asked what the house was worth and what was on the mortgage left.
Nothing to do with them.
He then said that if we could not work out a payment plan, he would have no alternative but to make me bankrupt through another avenue.
Not without proof of any liability they won't.

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Thanks for the reply.

 

Gosh, I only had the conversation with them yesterday and in today's post turns up a 12 page document for me to fill in everything about me and my incoming & outgoings.

 

Pity they cannot be that quick rooting out other paperwork!

 

They have given me 7 days to fill in with a proposal for payment, "proposal can be made conditional upon us providing you with a copy of the signed agreement".

 

Nice :roll:

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"proposal can be made conditional upon us providing you with a copy of the signed agreement".

 

Tell them to provide an enforceable agreement first & then you'll consider their request.


Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

17 Port & Maritime Regiment RCT

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Unbelievable behaviour from your bank. Clearly they were trying to turn the OD into a loan so they could secure the debt, and would probably have made sure you personally guaranteed it.

 

The key to this is whether they can find the original agreement. For my company I only ever signed the agreement once, but the OD was rolled over (and a huge fee charged) every year.

 

The agreement I signed (NatWest) allowed for changes to the size of the OD and did not require a new agreement each year (though notifications were sent – nothing else was ever signed). Luckily I now don’t have the OD.

 

So the key here is the agreement – do not in any way acknowledge that there was ever an personal guarantee in place. It is up to them to prove it. Call their bluff – sounds like they have seriously fecked up.

 

By the way, was a liquidator involved in winding the company up, or was it done by Companies House for failure to file accounts and returns?


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Quick Update,

 

They have mysteriously dug up a copy of a signed agreement. They want me to put into writing my intentions of how I will pay back the OD otherwise they will instruct solicitor and the Court.

 

The company was wound up by Companies House, so what can they do now. What is the position on my house which is in joint names with my wife, can they force us and our little four year old out and sell?

 

This was my worst nightmare.

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Is it the genuine document? Have they sent you a copy?

 

Start checking it over with a fine-toothed comb... did you sign as a director of the company, or as an individual? If you signed as a director, they have shafted themselves.


“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Hi,

 

DonkeyB, the document is a photo copy of an original I take it they hold. I signed this as an individual unfortunately. Does anyone know what they can enforce with my house which is in joint names?

 

Would it be better if I went bankrupt myself?

 

Thanks

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Hi,

 

DonkeyB, the document is a photo copy of an original I take it they hold. I signed this as an individual unfortunately. Does anyone know what they can enforce with my house which is in joint names?

 

Would it be better if I went bankrupt myself?

 

Thanks

 

When did you sign it Skywalker? Before the limited company was formed?

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When did you sign it Skywalker? Before the limited company was formed?

 

Hi, Miss Muppet. No the ltd company was already formed. I had already had a £14K agreement and they then rolled this into the £30K which I then re-signed in 2003.

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Hi, Miss Muppet. No the ltd company was already formed. I had already had a £14K agreement and they then rolled this into the £30K which I then re-signed in 2003.

 

Well then they are still going to need a copy of the personal guarantee arent they? Definitely don't think of going bankrupt, as you have a joint mortgage as far as I'm aware they couldn't get a charging order, somewhere around there is a thread on this, will come back if I can find it. Hang on in there and try not to worry.

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Hi

 

Happy New Year to all, unfortunately I have had a bad start already to the year ;o(

 

Things changed rather badly when Barclays 'found' their agreement and sent me a copy which was signed in June 2003. After copious amounts of letters and prodding it seems they had this all along. So, there is a signed guarantee for £30K, albeit signed from my old address as guarantor.

 

Since I had this I have been contacted by their Debt Collection office and I had written to them in December telling them I had put £50K of my own money into the business from my previous house sale alongside the overdraft. The overdraft had a massive interest rate and over the term I had this I had paid over £40K in charges.

 

I have said that I have run up approx £30K of debt on credit cards to fund working for myself and paying bills and the mortgage after the collapse of the Ltd company.

 

Our house is under a joint mortgage and I 'hope' this will not be forced from us.

 

But I wanted to come to some amicable arrangement in my last correspondence to the bank, which they never responded to. I have now received this morning a claim from Barclays solicitors lodged at Swindon Court for an immediate settlement of £31K including costs.

 

I have a response pack with the following:

Admission Form N9A

Admission Form N9C

Defence and Counterclaim Form N9B and

Defence and Counterclaim Form N9D

 

I have no idea the best route to take now. If I could get Barclays to agree a write off amount prior to a final court claim would this be possible.

 

I just don't know how far they want to go, what the court can make me do and most importantly I want to keep the house, although there is some equity in the house.

 

I know it sounds like I have been a right idiot through all this. But I had built my business up over fifteen years funding it mainly myself to employ staff of three others, two of those took me completely for a ride with faked CVs. I have talents in advertising and website design and I can get new business. I feel I have paid a huge amount to Barclays in interest while having no back up at all from my branch which had six new managers on my account come and go in six years.

 

The bank want their pound of flesh, I do have means of still working and coming to some arrangement, but with this Court Claim now in place I fear there is only one course of action, to go to court and plead my case.

 

Any further help from you guys would be great, I am very grateful for the help you have given already.

 

PS Thank you Miss Muppet for that CO link, a very interesting read and has given me some hope ;o)

 

Many Thanks All

Edited by skywalker1010

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May still be worth your time to request a SAR on the account as you never know what this could throw up.

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Just me thinking out as i dont know the score

 

for a personal guarantee and a ltd company, does it not have to be signed every year with the annual meeting with a personal banker to be effective

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Your first post stated "I have a personal guarantee on a business overdraft with Barclays set up about nine years ago. The first agreement was for £14K and then it was topped up to £30K. Eight Barclays Business managers later over the first few years I am told by Barclays that the agreement should have been renewed two years ago."

Would the fact they are admitting the agreement should have been renewed mean it does'nt exist as such?

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Thanks for the replies guys.

 

I did request a SAR twice from Barclays and never got anything back, even kept my cheque for payment the cheeky buggers!

 

I am going to look into the validity of an agreement which was signed just once in 2003, but if anyone has any previous knowledge of this kind of situation with a rolling agreement please feel free to chip in.

 

Thanks

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Report it to ICO that Barclays are not complying with your SAR and Barclays will get a hefty fine. This should put the account immediately into dispute as how can you have a valid defence without all the documentation?

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Quick update and hopefully someone can give me some help.

 

Barclays solicitors wrote to me with a Court Claim for the £30K + interest. I had a response pack also to send my answer to the Court, but contacted Barclays directly because they had not answered two of my last letters wanting to negotiate. They put Court Claim on hold for 14 days where I could come back with a settlement.

 

When at the same time of speaking with the guy holding the case, he asked if I was in position to sort a full and final settlement?

 

I asked what amount they had in mind, he would not say, but really pressed me to give 'any' figure to get the ball rolling. I am in no position for funds because I have run up credit card bills to fund myself over the last year of the business. But offered £5K, which he said would not be enough.

 

He then said come back with another figure and the filled in statement of finances, income, house, outgoings etc?

 

I did that, also citing the huge amounts I have funded myself into the business, the overdraft charges which were taken quarterly from the business account, sometimes nearly £3000 a quarter! Plus a revised settlement of £6.5K.

 

I have now spoken on the phone to them and they have rejected £6.5K, they want a minimum of £20K.

 

He has given me 7 days to either agree to a charge on the house, even tho in joint names with my wife, they will need to see my side of equity balance the amount outstanding. They will then agree a repayment plan based on the charge.

 

Or, I simply go to court.

 

It is still cat and mouse, but what would be the advice from anyone in a similar situation?

 

How does the charge over the house affect mortgage, which has never been defaulted, affect my credit card payments?

 

Would bankruptcy be an option on a personal guarantee?

 

Any thoughts please and once again, thanks to all of you who have given me strength on this.

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Hi Skywalker,stressfull times.Try to keep smiling.

They are negotiating so there not that keen on court them selves.IMO you mak be able to obtain a better deal by going to court. Have you a valid defense?.

Anyhow if you defend and lose/ or admit .

I predict the following scenario, they would go for a forthwith judgement and then apply for a charging order.

You then need to ask for a redirmination to pay a monthly amount within your budget and attend a c/o hearing.You would then have a chrge on your property, but only your share.IMO your mortgage company would not be interested as they have 1st charge.If you then start paying monthly, at some stage you can offer a f&f settlement.There are other aspects such a order of sale, unlikely.Also if course your credit rating will be wrecked.The above happened in my partners case,18k 90 per month.c/o not the end of the world.

Best of Luck

Cadbury

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Hi Cadbury,

 

Thanks for the speedy reply, contact from you guys are keeping me going.

 

I can get together all the bank charges, what I put into the company myself to keep afloat to put in a defence, I should have really cut my losses ages ago. I would have been £40K better off from not inputting all my money. Now I owe on credit cards and still the bank wants £30K back!

 

If they go to Court with a charge, will it be the full £30K + INT or the £20K min amount they would agree upon.

 

Thanks once again.

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If they go to court they will try for the maximum.

Dosn,t mean that you will end up paying this though.

As you can offer them a settlement in the future, at say 20 per cent of the balance with a good chance of exceptance.

On another point how long have you got to file a defence?

I assume you have checked with the court to confirm that the case is on hold.Don't trust verbal statments,written confirmation only. Have you contacted Business Debt line,cab etc for there advice. Your defence needs to have a legal basis for argument ie contract only signed once etc I am no expert so I hope others come along to help.

Cadbury

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Hi, another update today ;o(

 

Cadbury, you were right about checking if the case was on hold. The buggers passed the judgement yesterday after I spoke to the Court a few moments ago. I was in positive conversation with Barclays all through the initial receipt of the Court Claim in Jan. Barclays wanted me to come back with an offer and I have in writing that they had put the judgement on hold while I give them details. This then spread itself over the next couple of months, while I filled in a statement of my financial status.

 

They asked if I would consider a lump sum to come to some full and final on. I then offered £5K in writing which they flatly tuned down I then offered £10K and they said they would settle out of court for no less than £20K!.

 

I said that was not possible, but they still insisted we come to some agreement, so again verbally kept the Courts on hold. I could not get closer to £20K so called them a week or so ago, they said they would proceed to Court. I asked if this would be a new claim and I was told I would still have another 14 days to get something into the Court.

 

I know find they have passed judgement yesterday after checking my Claim No at Swindon.

 

So I have a CCJ against me for £31415! where do I go from here now?

 

Barclays asked me on the phone if I would work something out with a charge on the house. I said this is in joint names and my wife would not do this, which Barclays accepted.

 

Can they force a house sale now?

 

I must sound really stupid, but I really don't know what to do on this?

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Hi

others may have some suggestions for other routes on this Set Asside of the ccj etc.

However thesepossible scenarios are notwithin my experience. So to answer your question, please look at my previous prediction.

You will recieve a meter from the court, certainly

with a " forthwith" Judgement,pay now!

If you do not wishto consider other options , you need to apply for a redidermination to pay monthly.

After the time has expired to pay the judgement in full, I would expect letters in regard to a Charging order.

Once the C/O is granted you will have a restriction place at the Land Registry. In theory they could apply for an "order for sale" very very unlikely though.

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The overdraft had a massive interest rate and over the term I had this I had paid over £40K in charges.

 

Okay, maybe a different route, the OFT ruling on bank charges did not cover business accounts. So excessive charges can still be challenged. If you can calculate exactly how much of the debt is interest & charges, you could challenge the CCJ, or atleast get it reduced.

 

You could argue, that although you do not deny the debt, you dispute the amount, and the claimant got judgement undefended because they mislead you into believing the claim was stayed while you tried to resolve this dispute.

 

But, just for clarification. Overdrafts cannot have Post Judgement Interest applied.

It depends on the type of judgement, a forthwith judgement will ask for payment in full. A judgement order, will look at what you can afford and will set an amount based on this. Aslong as you maintain payments, they cannot apply for a CO. You need clarification as to what type of judgment they have.

 

If you have children, no court will allow a for sale order.

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Hi, another update today ;o(

 

Cadbury, you were right about checking if the case was on hold. The buggers passed the judgement yesterday after I spoke to the Court a few moments ago. I was in positive conversation with Barclays all through the initial receipt of the Court Claim in Jan. Barclays wanted me to come back with an offer and I have in writing that they had put the judgement on hold while I give them details. This then spread itself over the next couple of months, while I filled in a statement of my financial status.

 

They asked if I would consider a lump sum to come to some full and final on. I then offered £5K in writing which they flatly tuned down I then offered £10K and they said they would settle out of court for no less than £20K!.

 

I said that was not possible, but they still insisted we come to some agreement, so again verbally kept the Courts on hold. I could not get closer to £20K so called them a week or so ago, they said they would proceed to Court. I asked if this would be a new claim and I was told I would still have another 14 days to get something into the Court.

 

I know find they have passed judgement yesterday after checking my Claim No at Swindon.

 

So I have a CCJ against me for £31415! where do I go from here now?

 

Barclays asked me on the phone if I would work something out with a charge on the house. I said this is in joint names and my wife would not do this, which Barclays accepted.

 

Can they force a house sale now?

 

I must sound really stupid, but I really don't know what to do on this?

 

Hello Skywalker

 

Did you file an initial defence against this action?

 

Can you scan in and post up the Personal Guarantee Agreement please.

 

If they have entered Judgment against you and the court has awarded forthwith, then shortly you will be in receipt of a notification from the court/claimant informing you that the claimant has obtained an Interim Charging Order on your property, don't panic if that should happen.

 

If your property is jointly owned with your wife, then it is absolutely important that your wife objects to the Final Charging Order by way of her Witness Statement setting out her grounds opposing the final CO.

 

You will also need to make your Witness Statement and set out your grounds objecting to a Charging Order on your property. If your wife objects then the claimant will not be legally entitled to obtain a full Charge on your home, he will only be able to obtain a restriction on your 50% interest in the property, so he will not be able to apply for any Order of Sale.

 

Have you received the General Form of Order or Judgment from the court as yet?

 

You could make an application for redetermination of the Judgment and put your payment proposals into court and the claimant stating the rate at which you can afford to repay the Judgment debt.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

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