Barclays Claimform on A personal guarantee business overdraft ***SET A SIDE***

[skywalker1010]

Just to add, which may help the route to take.

 

The Court did pass judgement in my absence because I was at the time under the impression Barclays had halted the application while I made some agreement to pay. I have had back from the Court a Judgement for Claimant on the 3rd March. I then contested this which the Court has allowed a further hearing on the 26th, but I am unsure if the Judgement is now lodged?

 

Is there anyway of me checking this online?

 

It has not appeared on my Credit File yet?

 

'If' the judgement cannot be now dismissed or stopped by Barclays, then perhaps I am stupid to offer a full and final, because my Credit rating is in tatters anyway. Therefore, should I save the £20K, which is borrowed from family and go to Court on the 26th and say I can pay £20 a month, for the rest of my life!

 

As I am going to be a long way away from getting credit again?

 

Perhaps in a years time after paying off £20 a month I can offer a full and final of £5K or smaller for them to update the file.

 

How long does the judgement stay on my file for, can I get it removed?

 

Sorry about all the extra questions.

 

Thanks

 

SW

[cerberusalert]

Is there anyway of me checking this online?

You can either check with the court which is free or use http://www.trustonline.org.uk/ which costs £8.

[Cadbury1879]

Hi Sw

These are the other possible routes, to take.

Mentioned previously.

I like you owned a business after 15 years

All went pear shaped in 2003.

since then it's been a struggle, but the more knowledge of how the system works, empowers you to do the best within your circumstances.

A Ccj will remain on a credit reference file for 6 years.

Even if you satisfy it(pay it of) it means little to your credit rating.

Perhaps you can ask Barclays not to defend your Set Aside in return for a F&F

Cad

[skywalker1010]

Hi Cad,

 

Thanks for the reply. I have just done a check on trustonline as cerberusalert has suggested for £8 and yes the judgement has been applied for £31,415 as Unsatisfied Judgement in March when I did not contest ;o(

 

So the Set Aside means nothing really?

 

I may follow the tack on asking Barclays to not defend the Set Aside, so it can hopefully be removed, is that possible? I can then put the agreement to Barclays on the F&F, knowing that hopefully I will have a clean bill of health on my credit file come Dec?

 

Thanks again to all

 

SW

[Cadbury1879]

Hi,

so your credit file is now totalled.

So you need to make some decisions.

Will this make a difference, it will impact you ,

but if you feel you can survive without borrowing,so what.

I think that if they agree to a Set Aside the CCJ is removed. IMO if you cannot have the CCJ removed, what's the point. Go for a redirmination on the CCJ.

Defend the C/O . My opinion only others ma have other points of view.

 

Cad

[The Mould]

Hi Cadbury and any others still looking in.

 

I have phoned Barclays to make a full and final offer this week, which brought some positive noises from them over the phone.

 

Basically they have told me previously that they would settle for a full and final payment of £20K and with help from family and friends I can raise £10K to pay end July and the balance of £10K by the first week in Dec.

 

I need to put this in writing so they can go back to the court with the offer.

 

I can only think that this is my best hope of clearing this huge black cloud, I am trying so hard to rebuild my business and I am sure I can sustain this settlement.

 

Has anyone got any view on this, am I as mad as a box of frogs? or is this a good solution. I also need some steering on how to word this letter. If I am putting this in writing now, what is there to stop them pushing for the full amount?

 

I have stipulated that I need the following also agreed.

 

No action further on Land Registry (just to update on that, I wrote to LR and they turned down my request for them to stop the application, but they have given me until the 1st June to settle things with Barclays)

 

Full and Final Settlement on £20K not the £31,500 odd which includes interest and no interest applied to final £20 while I am paying off.

 

The Court Case arranged for the 26th May to be postponed, ideally I need this withdrawn if we sign up an agreement to pay the £20K, so it is not on my records.

 

If I have forgotten anything please anyone chip in.

 

Thanks

 

Hello Skywalker

 

Did you make said offer without admitting liability?

 

Contact the creditor again on the morrow (try and ask to be put through to same rep you orally agreed settlement contract with), ask him to fax or email confirmation of the terms/conditions agreed to said settlement, or you fax and or email said terms/conditions to the creditor as per orally agreed in telephone conversation (make reference to said tele call and name of rep).

 

You need to request that he files a notice of discontinuance to the court without delay on the understanding that each party do bear their own costs as a settlement has been agreed between the two parties, then request that he supplies you with a copy of said notice either by way of fax or email.

 

You also need to state in the terms, that all adverse data entered on your credit files be removed upon conclusion of the settlement contract (which will be upon the second sum of £10k having cleared into his account).

 

Have a look at the last couple of pages of 'Full and Final settlement advice on how to clear asap' posted by 'horsemad1' in the debt management and self help forum here on CAG, the info in said thread will help you to write/word your settlement agreement.

 

Make that contact on the morrow and then report back here at your earliest convenience.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[ohitsonlyme]

Subbing -I am just starting the same process with RBS!! and they have appointed LPA recievers over 4 properties

onlyme

[skywalker1010]

Hi Mould,

 

I had a really long read through that thread on F&F posted by horsemad1, I can see you really are an extremely helpful person with a heart of gold

 

Just to let you know the creditor has finally come back to me and actually refused the offer and wants to proceed with the Court. I said 'so be it' and said I would see them in Court on the 26th!.

 

So, a big sigh and to be honest I am relieved that I know where I stand, but I am bricking it come the Court day!

 

The creditor will obviously tell the Court that I have made an offer for F&F 75% of the whole debt, so will they still try and push this on the day. Because I really do not have a penny, credit cards up to max to fund myself through the business and lots of payments going to hose just to pay interest a month.

 

If I put down all my income and outgoings will the Court see that I am really under pressure to give anything but £50-100 a month?

 

Ideally I can stand up there, be honest and hopefully come out with a small monthly payment, do they stop any interest. If in 6 months time I can get together a few grand perhaps I can offer a F&F then, but they may have sold the debt on?

 

We have a 4 year old and I really am in no position to lose my home to this, can they proceed with the Charge over the property and force me to sell if I have enough equity.

 

Any help you or anyone can give me on this would be a great relief.

 

Thanks

 

SW

[Cadbury1879]

Hi sw,

do a proper income & expenditure.

Templates on many sites.I used the National debtline online calculator, to give accurate pro- rata payment offers.

Don't "brick it" to much, the judge is just a person.

Set out your case I'm sure The Mould will help.

The interest is usualy stopped after a CCJ depends on original conditions.

C/O are relatively common these days, orders of sale are very very rare. It would be extreamly unlikely they would try this.

I wish you the very best of luck

Cad

[skywalker1010]

Thanks Cad, I appreciate the reply. I only have this weekend and early next week to get it all together. I have statements showing £20K in charges, plus my part of £50K put into the business before it failed. I am sure I can put forward the circumstances of the business fail, as we lost a major client to a complete 'mess' up by a supplier, £150K of extra work went with it.

 

What about cards owing, will the CCJ then alert those and they will stop usage or ask for full payment, we are just about managing with these.

 

Cheers

 

SW

[The Mould]

Thanks Cad, I appreciate the reply. I only have this weekend and early next week to get it all together. I have statements showing £20K in charges, plus my part of £50K put into the business before it failed. I am sure I can put forward the circumstances of the business fail, as we lost a major client to a complete 'mess' up by a supplier, £150K of extra work went with it.

 

What about cards owing, will the CCJ then alert those and they will stop usage or ask for full payment, we are just about managing with these.

 

Cheers

 

SW

 

Good evening Skywalker

 

Goodness me, he has refused the settlement, well I am sorry to hear of that news Skywalker.

 

Did you file yours and your wife's statement opposing the charging order?

 

Having just read your above post regarding the fault of the third party, maybe, just maybe, you could present the argument of Frustration in the contract, an event caused by no fault or doing of your own or of the first party (the creditor), if the contract is not wide enough to cope with such a situation/event, then the contract becomes frustrated and therefore it is at at end, it is void.

 

Have a thorough study over the weekend on the subject of Frustration in the Contract, you might have a very realistic fighting chance here, I think it is certainly worth you spending some time looking into this particular area in order to establish whether or not it is viable.

 

In any event, keep your cool and don't worry about any order for sale, as said by others, order for sale is extremely rare. It is important though, that you wife makes her objections known.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[skywalker1010]

Hi Mould,

 

Thanks again for your valuable thoughts on this.

 

My wife and I both sent objections back straight away to the Land Registry. I got a letter back saying that they would not uphold the application as although it was served on both of us, it was only my share of an profit of the sale that they could make a stake on. However they did say they would wait until right after the 'Set Aside' hearing on the 26th to make the application final.

 

I am encouraged about your comments on this 'Frustration in Contract', I have actually put in writing to the creditor in my very first letter before it going to Court that we had a supplier completely mess up a job, which actually resulted in losing our biggest client.

 

What proof will I need to show the Court this.

 

Thanks again

 

SW

[The Mould]

Hi Mould,

 

Thanks again for your valuable thoughts on this.

 

My wife and I both sent objections back straight away to the Land Registry. I got a letter back saying that they would not uphold the application as although it was served on both of us, it was only my share of an profit of the sale that they could make a stake on. However they did say they would wait until right after the 'Set Aside' hearing on the 26th to make the application final.

 

I am encouraged about your comments on this 'Frustration in Contract', I have actually put in writing to the creditor in my very first letter before it going to Court that we had a supplier completely mess up a job, which actually resulted in losing our biggest client.

 

What proof will I need to show the Court this.

 

Thanks again

 

SW

 

Skywalker

 

You and your wife must send your statements defending, opposing the charging order to the court and serve a copy of the same upon the claimant, did you do that?

 

Proof -RE: Frustration: The first letter you mention above, sent to the creditor, any documents you hold relating to the supplier's actions which caused the substantial loss to the business etc, etc.

 

On another note, was there a contract in place between you and the supplier? If yes, you could investigate to determine whether you can sue the supplier.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[skywalker1010]

Hi Mould,

 

We just received the 'applications' to put the charge, from the Land Registry, in it they said if we do not agree we must put in writing our reasons, which we did. The LR legal rep came back in writing saying we did not have enough complaint to stop the application but they have allowed it to halt until after the Set aside.

 

I have emails and letters pertaining to loss of works from my client who let us go. Plus I have emails and letters between myself and supplier, the supplier eventually ripped up the invoice for the work carried out at £12K.

 

There was no contract between my company and the supplier unfortunately.

 

Thanks

 

SW

[The Mould]

Hi Mould,

 

We just received the 'applications' to put the charge, from the Land Registry, in it they said if we do not agree we must put in writing our reasons, which we did. The LR legal rep came back in writing saying we did not have enough complaint to stop the application but they have allowed it to halt until after the Set aside.

 

I have emails and letters pertaining to loss of works from my client who let us go. Plus I have emails and letters between myself and supplier, the supplier eventually ripped up the invoice for the work carried out at £12K.

 

There was no contract between my company and the supplier unfortunately.

 

Thanks

 

SW

 

Hello Skywalker

 

What was the status of any debt owed to the bank at the point of you sending said first letter to notify them of the loss caused to your business and the reason(s) thereof?

 

The supplier, OK, so no formal written contract between you and him, however, how did the business relationship come about, what discussions did you have with the supplier that concluded with an 'agreement' to supply the items/materials, the things, for your business? If you have emails relating to the same, you should study the contents therein as you and the supplier may of entered into legally binding relationship. You say the supplier scrapped a £12k invoice, so clearly he accepted liability for the loss caused to your business as a result of his fault(s), you may be able to sue the supplier for damages, you should (I would) inspect all relevant paperwork relating to the supplier, especially any correspondence leading to the agreement (he supplies, you buy, at what cost, who delivers, when, what quantity etc, etc).

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[skywalker1010]

Quick update for everyone.

 

Just had a letter from creditors solicitor giving the court a 'way of service a witness statement'. These swines are really going for the jugular!, they 'intend to rely on this at the hearing to set aside judgement'.

 

Basically they are calling into question my timings on the events where I had discussions with creditors debt recovery about a F&F and that they held of judgement. Obviously whoever I spoke to at debt recovery at creditors has not been truthful about what they have told me, to the solicitor.

 

I have done a income and expenditure forecast and the very most I can afford is £100-£150 a month. Is it really possible that the judge will listen to my case or go down the easy route and award final judgement against me and they try to make me pay the full £32K, plus as solicitor now says in statement the following.

 

Defendants application be dismissed.

The claimants interim charging order over the property be made final.

The claimant to be awarded its summarily assessed costs in opposing the application.

 

Does this witness statement now mean that the solicitor is not attending?

 

Any thoughts on this would be really appreciated, the hearing is on Wed at 10am

 

Thanks

 

SW

[skywalker1010]

Anyone

[Cadbury1879]

Hi sw

out of my experence here, sure someone will be along.

All the best

Cad

[skywalker1010]

Hi Cad,

 

Just thought I would attach a PDF of my agreement copy they sent, just in the hope that it is worthless

 

 

SW

docum.pdf

[The Mould]

Quick update for everyone.

 

Just had a letter from creditors solicitor giving the court a 'way of service a witness statement'. These swines are really going for the jugular!, they 'intend to rely on this at the hearing to set aside judgement'.

 

Basically they are calling into question my timings on the events where I had discussions with creditors debt recovery about a F&F and that they held of judgement. Obviously whoever I spoke to at debt recovery at creditors has not been truthful about what they have told me, to the solicitor.

 

I have done a income and expenditure forecast and the very most I can afford is £100-£150 a month. Is it really possible that the judge will listen to my case or go down the easy route and award final judgement against me and they try to make me pay the full £32K, plus as solicitor now says in statement the following.

 

Defendants application be dismissed.

The claimants interim charging order over the property be made final.

The claimant to be awarded its summarily assessed costs in opposing the application.

 

Does this witness statement now mean that the solicitor is not attending?

 

Any thoughts on this would be really appreciated, the hearing is on Wed at 10am

 

Thanks

 

SW

 

Hello Skywalker

 

Did you receive the witness statement today? Have a read up on the entirety of CPR Part 32 - Evidence and in particular Rule 32.2 & 32.7.

 

Also, if the witness statement has been made by way of hearsay notice, have a read of CPR Part 33 and in particular Rule 33.4.

 

Can you scan in and post up what the claimant has now served upon you today please.

 

The claimant's Solicitor will certainly be attending the hearing on Wed.

 

I shall be back later on for a short while and see if there is anything else that I can add.

 

In the meantime, see if you can please reply to my post #90.

 

Finally, this witness statement served, this is in response to your app to set aside right? The claimant should of been able to file his response and this 'new' evidence given by his witness, no more than 7 days before the hearing date and then you would be entitled (as you made said app) to file a response in respect of said witness statement within 3 days of hearing date.

 

You say the witness is not speaking the truth, therefore you need to cross-examine him, the above-stated CPR should help you to know what to do.

 

Back later.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[skywalker1010]

Hi Mould,

 

Thanks for stopping by. Yes, I received the witness statement today, sorry but I have no idea what the CPR Part 32 is all about I Googled it but it did not make sense to this statement I have and it did not have Rules 32.2 & 32.7?

 

Sorry to come across as a right plank, I really am feeling I am walking into the lions den on Wed, I have no solicitor. Only my word against their debt collection dept.

 

I cannot scan in the whole doc I received as it has too much info on me, I don't know what part of it could be used against them. Basically they just want the CCJ to stay and the charging orders made legal, I really don't know what the judge will see as to allowing me to settle a stage payment plan.

 

I think the best result I could imagine would be for the expected CO to go through and the judge allowing me to settle the amount via a monthly payment, say £100 - £150 after he sees my income and expenditure. To answer your earlier post.

 

1. Prior to the client and jobs going pearshaped I was in OD to the tune of about £6.5K

2. In a short space of time we then had to pay other suppliers linked to the job who were not at fault and we slipped into an OD of £29K in ten days

3. No contracts were in place, the admitted fault and wiped away the invoice totaling £12K

 

In the meantime we lost all the work we had actually started work on for the client who dumped us. We were not reimbursed for these costs as they said they would not be using our design work.

 

All the best

 

SW

[The Mould]

Hi Mould,

 

Thanks for stopping by. Yes, I received the witness statement today, sorry but I have no idea what the CPR Part 32 is all about I Googled it but it did not make sense to this statement I have and it did not have Rules 32.2 & 32.7?

I am referring to Civil Procedure Rules, you will find them on the Ministry of Justice web site.

 

Sorry to come across as a right plank, I really am feeling I am walking into the lions den on Wed, I have no solicitor. Only my word against their debt collection dept.

That is why I am referring to said Civil Procedure Rules, you need to cross-examine the claimant's witness.

 

I cannot scan in the whole doc I received as it has too much info on me, I don't know what part of it could be used against them. Basically they just want the CCJ to stay and the charging orders made legal, I really don't know what the judge will see as to allowing me to settle a stage payment plan.

Does it say 'hearsay notice' or 'witness statement'? Does the witness say that he makes the statement on the understanding that he will not attend the hearing?

 

I think the best result I could imagine would be for the expected CO to go through and the judge allowing me to settle the amount via a monthly payment, say £100 - £150 after he sees my income and expenditure. To answer your earlier post.

Make sure that your wife attends and puts her objections to the Judge, you should also argue (if the claimant succeeds) that only a restriction on your 50% of your family home should be allowed.

 

1. Prior to the client and jobs going pearshaped I was in OD to the tune of about £6.5K

2. In a short space of time we then had to pay other suppliers linked to the job who were not at fault and we slipped into an OD of £29K in ten days

3. No contracts were in place, the admitted fault and wiped away the invoice totaling £12K

 

In the meantime we lost all the work we had actually started work on for the client who dumped us. We were not reimbursed for these costs as they said they would not be using our design work.

Personally, I think you should pursue that supplier and sue him for your losses. How did the bank allow you to run up such a substantial overdraft?

 

All the best

 

SW

 

Hello Skywalker

 

Have a read of Stated Civil Procedure Rules.

 

Above everything, don't worry about the hearing on Wednesday.

 

Come back as I am here for approx 30 mins - Roger - over.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[miss muppet]

Hi Mould,

 

Thanks for stopping by. Yes, I received the witness statement today, sorry but I have no idea what the CPR Part 32 is all about I Googled it but it did not make sense to this statement I have and it did not have Rules 32.2 & 32.7?

 

Sorry to come across as a right plank, I really am feeling I am walking into the lions den on Wed, I have no solicitor. Only my word against their debt collection dept.

 

I cannot scan in the whole doc I received as it has too much info on me, I don't know what part of it could be used against them. Basically they just want the CCJ to stay and the charging orders made legal, I really don't know what the judge will see as to allowing me to settle a stage payment plan.

 

I think the best result I could imagine would be for the expected CO to go through and the judge allowing me to settle the amount via a monthly payment, say £100 - £150 after he sees my income and expenditure. To answer your earlier post.

 

1. Prior to the client and jobs going pearshaped I was in OD to the tune of about £6.5K

2. In a short space of time we then had to pay other suppliers linked to the job who were not at fault and we slipped into an OD of £29K in ten days

3. No contracts were in place, the admitted fault and wiped away the invoice totaling £12K

 

In the meantime we lost all the work we had actually started work on for the client who dumped us. We were not reimbursed for these costs as they said they would not be using our design work.

 

All the best

 

SW

 

Hello Skywalker - whilst you wait for Mould to return google Civil Procedure Rules, you will then understand more fully what Mould is saying, i.e. as Mould says one of the Rules allows you the right to question any witness that the Bank is using to discover if they have any real evidence or are relying on hearsay, you really do need to gather as much evidence of their dastardly deeds as you possibly can.

[miss muppet]

http://www.justice.gov.uk/guidance/courts-and-tribunals/courts/procedure-rules/civil/index.htm

[The Mould]

http://www.justice.gov.uk/guidance/courts-and-tribunals/courts/procedure-rules/civil/index.htm

 

Thank you for that link miss muppet.

 

Skywalker, you need to bring an Application notice with you to the hearing on wednesday, you a ask the court to make an order under CPR PART 32 rule 32.7 - Order for cross-examination (if the witness statement is a hearsay notice, then your request should be made under CPR PART 33 rule 33.4 Power to call witness for cross-examination on hearsay evidence).

 

Bring said Application with you and serve a copy upon the claimant's Council (Solicitor), you only received said witness statement on Monday (today) therefore you have not had the opportunity to exercise your rights under said CPR.

 

Go through the witness statement and put your counter-argument on a piece of A4 paper, put your argument down para by para against what the witness is alleging. Sign it with the words 'Statement of Truth' above your signature and put the date on it.

 

Politely argue with the DJ that the claimant only served his witness statement upon you on Monday 23 May 2011, two days before this hearing and you want to exercise your right in law under the Civil Procedure Rules to cross-examine the witness.

 

How different are the witness's allegations in comparison to your factual account of the events?

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould