HSBC after the Test Case

[Castlebest]

There have been a great many people asking if claiming refunds of bank charges is all over now following the Test Case judgement by the Supreme Court and what they should do next.

 

HSBC have been sending out a standard letter basically stating that they won so they will be asking DG to ask the courts to strike out all of the claims that are stayed at the moment. This statement is a long way from the truth.

 

There are a great many people at the moment analysing the test case judgement to identify the exact way forward and even the County Courts themselves appear to be confused by the outcome and are granting further time by extending the stays rather than striking out claims to allow the statements made following the test case to be fully understood.

 

There is also a joint case management hearing listed in the Leeds Mercantile Court for February that should shed further light on the best way forward.

 

So in my opinion the thing to do now is buy as much time as you can and let the Bank and the Court know you are still in the running for the time being.

 

To this end I sent a reply to the banks letter that to date I have not had a response to, this is as follows:

 

The Senior Manager

Service Quality Team

HSBC Bank Plc

Arlington Business Centre

Millshaw Park Lane

Leeds

LS11 0PP

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

county court claim Number - xxxxxxxx

Date Issued: xxxxxxxx

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 18th December 2009 which details your belief that the recent judgement by the Supreme Court in the OFT v you and seven others is an end to these matters, you are wrong.

 

Although the OFT effectively lost the “test case” the chief judge of the Supreme Court thought it important enough to say this ruling didn't stop people challenging fairness under 'Regulation 5' of the Unfair terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, which the Supreme Court case did not cover.

 

In addition to this I believe section 140A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which again did not form any part of the “test case” also contains powerful arguments in relation to my claim against you.

 

I confirm following the judgement by the Supreme Court and in light of the above I am now amending the particulars of my claim and these will be submitted to the court shortly together with my request to have the stay set aside and our dispute listed for hearing.

 

I trust this clarifies the situation for you.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

cc your county court

cc DG Solicitors

 

There is no guarantee that we will find a strong enough way forward to force the banks to repay the charges they are continuing to deduct from our accounts but only time will tell and to this end we need to keep the stays in place for as long as possible.

 

pete

Edited January 28, 2010 by Castlebest

[johnnymitch]

Nice one pete , thanks for the clarification .... I'll use this link as a guide for those asking about the way forward .......

[**Tilly**]

Have to agree with Johnny, Pete nice one it's good to see someone still taking an interest in the little peeps

 

 

How about making this a sticky, seeing it applies to all banks and making it easier for people to find

Job for the Site Team me thinks

[caro]

 

There is no guarantee that we will find a strong enough way forward to force the banks to repay the charges they are continuing to deduct from our accounts but only time will tell and to this end we need to keep the stays in place for as long as possible.

 

pete

 

I tend to agree Pete. I know people are desperate for new POCs, but they need to be robust and not expose people to the risk of losing.

 

If the POCs are no good and people lose in court, I suspect the banks will be asking for high costs in order to deter others.

 

No-one should be resting on their laurels, and everyone need to consider seriously if they should carry on with their claims.

 

Templates as we know them may not be the way forward, at least for now. CAG has always tried to provide a tried and tested methods, but that takes time - which unfortunately many people don't have, and at the moment no-one is really sure what might work.

[caro]

There is also a joint case management hearing listed in the Leeds Mercantile Court for February that should shed further light on the best way forward.

 

Looks like this is not going to be happening.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/74411-french-abbey-3-into-14.html#post2744584

[Castlebest]

HSBC and DG are continuing to pretend they won the test case and pressurise people into paying old overdrafts and the courts to strike out stayed claims .

 

I know a few people have had their cases struck out because of this but I believe this was premature action by the courts and should be reversable when we get our ducks in a row again (all is not lost JB ).

 

I think most of the courts are taking a much more balanced view and either leaving the stayed cases as they are or, like my own court, issuing an amended set of orders... my stay is now in force untill November 2010 or untill I apply to have it set aside and proceed to a hearing .

 

Buy as much time as you can with the court, tell HSBC and their minions to go away in as blunt a way as you can without swearing and watch this space .

 

pete

[caro]

Thanks Pete.

 

Did the court just decide to extend your stay or did you apply?

[johnnymitch]

Caro ,I think one of pete's inimitable letters did the trick ......

 

I like your update on #6 pete ...... sets it out plainly as always ..... expect to see it among my advice posts shortly .......(laffin!)

[caro]

Thanks Johnny.

 

Just seeking clarification on exactly how Pete achieved this for others who might be looking to do the same thing.

 

I need something to link to.

[johnnymitch]

Hi Caro ......you are right as usual of course ,.

 

Let's wait and get it from the horse's mouth (Laffin! as he would say !)

[Castlebest]

Ive no way of knowing exactly what happened in my own case but when HSBC and then DG sent me their letters I suspected they would ask the Court to strike out my claim without further reference to me.

 

I therefore sent copies my replies to both HSBC and DG to the Court marked "for information" so that any Judge would see them when reviewing any application for a strike out and would be aware that I (in agreement with Lord Phillips) dont consider the test case has settled anything.

 

I assume thats exactly what has happened because the Court have now issued a new set of orders that extend the stay untill November 2010 .

 

pete

[caro]

Thanks for the clarification Pete.

[rebel11]

In November I sent in a SAR request, they replied with a list of charges and a letter suggesting they had made a mistake, this was before the Supreme Court Judgement. I have done much about it since, I'm going through the charges, my own list:) at the moment.

[mhsy2006]

Hey all,

 

I have received an order from the courts to strike my claim unless i have good reason to continue, I have 42 days to respond (dated 18/03/2010).

 

Any ideas on what i should do..?

 

Mike

[Castlebest]

Hiya mhsy2006

 

Edit the letter in post 1 using paragraphs 2, 4 and 4 and see what your judge says , I think the court has probably had a request for the strike out from DG and your judge is giving you a chance to put your side .

 

pete

[caro]

Hi Pete

 

I think it might be an idea for people using your letter to consider adding a paragraph about the Scottish case that's coming up.

 

What do you think?

[Castlebest]

I think it could be a double edged sword until we know whats going to happen in the scottish case.

 

If the bank win in that case HSBC will use it aganst us and at this point there is more than one torpedo in the water heading right for their waterline .

 

pete

[master woody]

I just got the following order from the court:

 

Take notice the case managment confernce will take place on 27 May 2010 at 10:20

t court x and address

 

when you should attend:eek:

 

15 minutes has been allowed for the case managment conferance

 

 

 

 

 

my question is do i have to go as i'm on holiday

 

sorry for the thread hijack!

[Castlebest]

Hiya woody no worries about hijacking one of my threads

 

I'm assuming you have a stayed claim and the court have sent you this order, If thats the case I would think they are trying to clear some of their old claims and want to find out exactly what you propose to do.

 

I would write to the court and in a very apologetic manner confirm you are unfortunatly on holiday on that date so will not be able to attend the hearing however also confirm the points contained in the letter in post one of this thread and in this instance as your writing to the court not the bank confirm you are also awaiting the outcome of the scottish case to be heard in June.

 

hope that helps

 

pete

[Castlebest]

Well I had a phone call from the latest DCA yesterday and no matter how often I told them they were not a party to the county court claim that is ongoing they refused to listen so I'm looking forward to receiving a writ from them bloody idiots .

 

pete

[Castlebest]

While I'm here and because the DCA is such a pack of idiots I might as well post the letters that have led up to this so here's number 1.

 

NOTE These letters are letters I have personaly sent, they are NOT the final conclusion to anything and are certainly NOT approved by the Consumer Action Group. They have been posted mearly as a guide and should not be copied word for word.

 

Dear (Debt Collection Monkey)

 

My account with HSBC Bank Plc

Client Reference xxxxxxxxxxxx Outstanding Balance £ xxxx.xx

County Court Claim Number xxxxxxxxx Your Reference xxxxxxxxx

 

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated xx-yy-zz requesting payment of the disputed balance of my above noted current account. It would appear your client has been economical with the truth yet again.

 

I enclose a copy letter I wrote to HSBC on the xx-yy-zz and a copy of a letter I wrote to Central Debt Recovery Unit which I believe are self explanatory.

 

My County Court claim against HSBC is still stayed pending my application to have the stay set aside and the case proceed to hearing in the very near future. Until the conclusion of my own case against HSBC the balance of my current account remains in dispute and therefore will not be paid.

 

I further confirm that any attempt at recovery or any defamatory comments placed with the Credit Reference Agencies before the conclusion of my County Court claim will be reported to the Financial Services Authority and The Information Commissioner with a request for them to review your credit licence.

 

I trust this clarifies the situation for you

 

Yours sincerely

 

And letter number 2

Dear (Debt Collection Monkey)

 

My account with HSBC Bank Plc

Client Reference xxxxxxxxxxxx Outstanding Balance £ xxxx.xx

County Court Claim Number xxxxxxxxx Your Reference xxxxxxxxx

 

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated xx-yy-zz stating I have failed to respond to your previous correspondence and can only think you can’t read or you can’t be bothered to adhere to the legal principals of debt collection.

 

With regard to your proposed further action;

1. The issue of a county court claim (which will increase the balance of the debt by up to £200.00)

 

I confirm any further costs including my own costs caused by your actions in this matter will be your own fault for being too stupid to read the correspondence already sent to you and take heed of the current legal situation that exists and therefore will be at your liability.

 

2. A collector personally calling at my address.

If you make any attempt to act without the required legal backing and call on myaddress to collect payment I confirm I will contact the police to have yourrepresentative removed from my premises by force and commence harassment proceedings against them, you and your client immediately.

I further confirm any further defamatory comments placed with the Credit Reference Agencies with regard to this disputed sum before the conclusion of my County Court claim will be reported to the Financial Services Authority and The Information Commissioner with a request for them to review your credit licence.

 

In view of the above I confirm I will not to respond to any further of your futile correspondence as this matter is sub-judice and you are not a party to those proceedings.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Hope those help a few people

 

pete

[johnnymitch]

I like that pete .... be interesting to see egg on faces ..........

 

They employ some numpties on these DCAs eh ?

[caro]

That will be interesting. :lol:

[citizenB]

:grin::grin:

[**Tilly**]